Republicans find proof of voter fraud in Florida
 

Well, it appears that the Republican party has found incontrovertible proof of voter fraud in Florida. It was really easy for them to do so, since it turns out they paid for it.:cool:

From here

10 counties?!!! That's a lot more that one or two corrupt employees. Now I understand all of this voter ID ballyhoo. It's like an alcoholic calling the front desk and asking to remove the bottles from the honor bar. Knowing that they could not help themselves from committing voter fraud, Republicans nationwide are attempting to protect the election system from themselves.:D

The problem is that the contractor they are using is also active in other states in multiple roles. The guys standing in front of a voting site trying to turn away any visible Obama supporters will probably also be tied to them.

finding proof of voter fraud in Florida?

Isn't that like finding proof of water on Earth?

:lol:

Oh clearly, it's only the Republicans who have fraudulent voters. :rolleyes:

Voter fraud is voter fraud, no matter which party is involved, and which politician is helped.

Both parties should be earnest in making reasonable steps to stop voter fraud, a reality. When your political system is based on the power of the vote, you need to be sure it's kept in good stead. Everyone should have faith that their elections were conducted honestly.

:D

Two words: hanging chads. :lol2:

Your political choices may be VERY questionable, but your sense of humor is excellent. :)

I would very much like to have Obama remain in public office:

Wait...I might take the dog catcher job. I didn't realize there was an opening. Probably get ripped apart less by wild rabid dogs than I am by students. ;)

There is a difference between an ineligible individual voting out of ignorance or stupidity and a company hired by the REPUBLICAN party for $1.3m who is intentionally committing fraud by changing voters forms or throwing out registrations for the other party. BIG difference.

Fraud is rife within the system. We all know this. I registered to vote by filling out a form, no ID required. I could easily have done so several times, but I'm honest. I'm told that Chicago is the poster child for voter fraud, where event he dead vote multiple times.

Of course, only a Republican could do that, NEVER a Democrat. :rolleyes:

Yeah...no.

It isn't "rife" within the system. It is extremely rare, actually.

Between 2000 and 2010, there were a whopping THIRTEEN confirmed and convicted cases of voter fraud. There were 47,000 cases of UFO sightings in the same time frame. :mg:

Truth about fraud

Voter fraud statistics

The lie that there is a voter fraud problem is believed by many and blabbed across the internet and via the media. But it's not true. It is, however, a lie of convenience when you want to pass laws to make it harder for certain classes/races/party members to vote.

On the other hand, a political party actually hiring a company that commits such fraud is a whole 'nother story.

You're talking about two different things.
Both parties hire companies, or sponsor groups, to try to sign up unregistered people in areas where they think the result would be more new voters in their favor than the opposition. It's a reasonable tactic and in general good for the country to increase participation. I don't think either party should be blamed for trying to do this.

The problem is the people hired to do this sometimes are paid by the head count, but at least get paid to produce... that invites cheating. Over zealous volunteers, have the same temptation. This is bad because it's a waste of the taxpayers money when the lists are faked.

The safety net is supposed to be the election officials that verify and validate the lists the hunter/gatherers turn in. This is the point where it becomes a big problem if the officials are sloppy, bias, or down right dishonest.

In order to blame the republicans in this case, even if they told the company to only sign up Republicans, (which doesn't seem the case), they are only guilty if they are colluding with the election officials to disqualify valid voters or qualify ineligible voters, (which doesn't seem to be the case either). Like the big brouhaha about Acorn, it's political mudslinging. The ones we have to keep an eye on is the election officials.

Everyone I meet, has some anecdotal evidence about dead voters voting and multiple voting for fun & profit, but there doesn't seem to be much hard evidence of that. Saying they did a check of the voter registration rolls and found X number of dead people, doesn't mean they voted. As a matter of fact, with turnouts south of 60% at best, and usually less than 40%, it's a pretty good bet they didn't.

http://tribalinsight.files.wordpress...to-believe.jpg

:tinfoil:

Recently, a wacko extremist advocated shark nets at the entrance of all rivers. Because sharks have gone up rivers and killed swimmers. Tank god for soundbytes. Otherwise we would only have hate, fear, and ignorance.

Well, if Republicans continue to run dogs of candidates like Romney, Obama should have no trouble catching them.

Did he look on the roof of the car?

Voter fraud Dunno if it is or not. How many people are arrested for taking office supplies from work? It happens every single day without many prosecutions.
jus sayin.

One way to curb it would be to have them identify themselves with say oh lets see, maybe a photo ID.

As for the fraud in Florida ... Who reported it?
The Republicans.

Umm, yeah ... why are people pointing fingers and claiming Republican voter fraud? They (the local Republicans) hired a company to do a legitimate job (sign up unregistered voters), then outed and fired them when they turned in fraudulent voter registration lists. What's the problem?

I agree with Bruce - in my experience working poll booths in a heavily Democratic town (back when I was a registered Republican - now I'm an Independent), all the election officials were Democrats. Fine, except they refused to work within the rules. There was immense hostility to the 2 of us Republican observers even turning up (they hadn't had to cope with our bothersome presence for some years, having run off Repub volunteers previously). I'm not accusing them of voter fraud, but procedures weren't followed and the local judge and inspector of elections didn't care. I think voter fraud is far more common than arrest and conviction stats show. Just like taking office supplies home.

When I was a Democrat I would show up at the polls and routinely the Republican poll workers couldn't find my name on the rolls, directed me to the wrong district, etc. I changed my registration to Republican and since then I've had no trouble at the polls. Funny that.

I don't really see the point of registering anyway. It's not like the primaries matter. It's bad enough we have a two party system, but the choices within either party are Hobson's choice.

Heh. Yeah, that's what the Republicans are running around telling everyone..."we discovered and reported it". Bull.

Cheryl Johnson, Lee County's voter registration director, noticed irregularities and asked for an explanation from Strategic Allied Consulting (and actually met with them and a Republican official), who never got back to her with a response. She notified law enforcement. After the media broke the story, the RNC fired SAC and "reported" it to election officials.

To top it all off, the founder of SAC, Nathan Sproul, is notorious for having done the EXACT SAME THING back in 2004 (changing registrations, ripping up Democratic registrations, etc). He told the LA Times he was specifically asked by the RNC to create Strategic Allied Consulting in order to distance themselves from his previous actions. Clearly, they knew who and what they were hiring. And why.


LA Times

I really hate when the truth gets twisted around.

Fair enough. We all have our experiences with polls and local political parties, and it's not news that political misbehavior gets misreported. Neither party has the corner on it; they both stink enough that I refuse to have anything to do with either anymore.

eta - thanks for the extra info, Stormie. And foot3 - yep, Hobson's choice. As for primaries, don't even get me started. During the time I was registered, the candidate had always been decided on before PA got to vote. There wasn't even the insult of a Hobson's choice.

Um... I've never run across a report like this about the Bull Moose party, or the The Rent is Too Damn High party. But those Whigs ....;)

I agree, Orthodoc. Neither party is without blemish or misbehavior.

But I don't think this excuses whitewashing or manipulating the facts. By either party. I'm an intelligent person, just give the the facts and I'll decide where to go from there.

Whitewashing the facts? Oh. I thought you said fence.

Let's mention the hot case in Voter Fraud in Minnesota.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrez...-to-reduce-it/

Democrat Al Franken won his senate seat, by a mere 312 votes, out of 3 million+ votes cast. Now, there are 243 people who have been convicted, or charged with voter fraud in this election.

If Al Franken had lost the election, then Obama's health care bill would not have passed.

Al Gore lost the Presidential election because he lost the state of Florida. He lost Florida by less than 500 votes.
Damn right voter fraud is an important issue!

Well, of course you have zero evidence to support such a scary fantasy, but you do clearly point out the absolute intransigence of the Republicans in Congress. They had every opportunity to back this winner, but they chose instead to abdicate their sworn duty to do the best for the country and instead stood in opposition to both their President and the good of the country in the interest of ideological purity.

They could have compromised, but they didn't. They *chose* to exclude themselves.

Dear America,

WTF is wrong with you idiots?
You let registered members of political parties staff the bloody ballot station and run the sodding election???
That's like leaving John Dillinger in charge of the cash box, or letting Wall Street regulate itself. (... oh, wait...)

OK, listen up and take notes. There will be a test.

Elections are to be run by the AustralianAmerican Electoral Commission, hereafter AEC. The AEC only employs citizens who are not, and have not been for five years, a member of a political party.

The AEC begins by setting electorate boundaries, keeping them all about the same population, trying to keep them roughly convex in shape, and IGNORING ("let the chips fall where they may") the political interests involved in doing this.

The AEC creates the electoral rolls. All adults' names are on a list somewhere, and when you vote, your name gets marked. Afterwards, these are checked to make sure everyone voted once and once only.

The AEC is in total control of the ballot station: queuing to vote, name checking, ballot issuing and collecting, security, and counting.
All registered political parties (yeah, I know ... both of them) are entitled to have properly accredited observers inside the polling place, during set-up (to check the ballot boxes are empty at the start), all day, and during counting ... but they are not allowed to touch a bloody thing nor approach any voters. If they have concerns, they call one of the officials.

Party members are allowed outside the poling place, but not within six metres (twenty of your quaint "feet") of any entrance or window. This is where they display their banners and offer last minute "how to vote for us" cards.

Any questions?

It's not bloody rocket surgery, people. A high school civics class could have come up with this.

Love,

Cousin Australia

P.S. Say hi to Canada for us, thanks.

Just Google it, BigV - it's not a fantasy, it's been reported in many newspapers and magazines, and the court documents in the convictions for voter fraud, are public records.

We did not CHOOSE to have anyone from either party, commit voter fraud.

Are the facts not good enough to convince you?

*waves hand* Can I come live in Australia? Pretty please?? I've been swept off my feet by the magnificent logic of your electoral practices.

P.S. Thanks, Canada says hi back. Incidentally, Canada's electoral/voting practices are just as messed up as America's. Different details, same result. :eyebrow:

Hey ZenGum,

It's a special American disease I believe. It's either:

* We truly believe everybody is pure as the driven snow, and would NEVER think to commit voter fraud.

* The dead need to be represented and vote, too! ;)

* Zombies are REALLY good at voter fraud, and we're helpless against their cunning, rotting flesh stink, and great make up! :rolleyes:

* Once is never enough, when it comes to good voting, by golly!

* Yeah, we're as dumb as it gets on this - and God alone knows why.

Hello, Canada. Glad you caught your Russian spy!

Z, all State and Federal elections in Oregon are via mail-in ballot.
(County-only measures are usually timed to go out on the same ballot,
and are only rarely a stand-alone election... because it's too expensive)

Our Secretary of State's office is in charge creating (truthful bill titles and descriptions,
and mailing our Voter Information Pamphlet, of mailing ballots to registered voters,
receiving marked ballots, checking the ballot envelope signatures against the registered signatures,
tracking changes of address, counting the ballots, and certifying the results.

There are volunteer "political observers" present at the opening and counting of the mail-in ballots,
but the Sec of State employees have primary say over the validity of ballots,
unless an issue actually goes to court for a legal decision.

Oregon is sort of famous for NOT having voter fraud or dirty politics.

Of course, we're keeping all this secret, watching with knowing smiles
all the other State continue spending their $ all the crazy battles at each election.

So you socialist bastards exclude a portion of your population from participating in the process of choosing the candidates for public service, or they will use their job on the Electoral Commission. Shameful, just shameful.
99% of Americans don't participate in the process of choosing the candidates for public service, but they do it of there own free will, by god.
OMG, national big brother lists, forced voting or off to the gulag. :eek:
Well there ya go, you even use the commie spelling of meter. :rolleyes:


Maybe your Nazi high school, but not a free, democratic, god fearin', high school. :p:

*giggles*

Gulags? Well, last I heard, the fine for not voting was $20, but I guess if you refuse to pay it, eventually, they'll lock you in prison, and if you try to escape, they can shoot you. I guess we are a bit strict.

Having worked at a few elections, I've seen ballot papers with no valid vote but with anarchy symbols on them or slogans like "If voting could change anything it would be illegal". Some folks really go to town with write-in candidates, mostly international figures.

They still turn up to vote, though, so I guess those death threats work, eh?

Do you feel like your uninformed voters do a better job than our misinformed voters?

:lol:

I guess randomising some votes helps keep power diffused. The donkey vote (numbering all boxes in order) seems to be about 1%.

Seriously, compulsory voting forces lazy moderates to vote and so helps discourage extremism in the serious parties.

Rosanne Barr is on the ballot for president down here in Florida. Good heavens...

;)

You know...old Rosey has gotten a lot of bad rap...but that show was so good. I saw the one about domestic violence recently: fisher beats the crap out of Aunt Jackie. I always identified with Jackie, and I think this 'very special episode' was very well done.

Here's a small clip. It just kind of tied together with the domestic violence discussion.

In fact, it all ties in with the fact that though we've come a long way baby, we still have so far to go. If the republicans have their way, we're going to go backwards. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvj48...eature=related

/tangent

We're idiots.

:D

Roseanne was an awesome, awesome show. I adored it. Less a 'sitcom' and more of a comedy drama. From that time when American tv was interested in working-class lives. Before everybody moved to loft apartments in New York.

It really was. I'm a sitcom freak anyway...but Roseanne was a step above.

I was watching the one where Dan and Roseanne find the old pot and get high. So funny.

And the kids were excellent actors. Well, DJ not so much, but Becky and Darlene? Wonderful. I love seeing David on there and seeing Johnny Galecki now on Big Bang Theory.

But over here so many AMURCANS hate her because she grabbed her crotch like a baseball player when she sang the National Anthem at a baseball game. I've always said "who the heck asked her to sing the National Anthem? She's not known for being a singer. She's a comedian." So whoever was responsible for that fiasco made damn sure AMURCANS were appalled that'd she do such a thing. Poor taste, I suppose...but WHAT DID THEY EXPECT HER TO DO? Become Whitney Houston or something?

Oh hell, I love sitcoms generally. When they're good. I don't like the cookie cutter ones that appear in a slew every so often.

Y'know, I think the dislike for her doing the anthem the way she did is an excuse. If they liked her before that then it's a very strange reason to alter that to active disike. On the other hand if they didn't like her before. If they found her a little coarse, and inappropriate and way too in their face for a working woman and a wife, and if she really didn't gel with their expectations and aspirations, then the anthem incident would just symbolize all that.


[eta] Y'know, if you were to judge American society on the cultural product it puts out, you'd be forgiven for thinking it truly is a classless society. That it is not divided into classes, but into the law-abiding and the criminal, the fiscally responsible and the poor. The only class that is spoken of in class terms at all is the middle. Which is apparently where everybody except drug dealers and millionaires lives.

The working class have all but vanished from view. Everybody is either middle-class, or they sit outside of class -what could be described as an underclass.

Cheers, Taxi and Roseanne defined an era in American television culture. Then everything became a little bit shinier and definitions of class altered. Loft-living, beautiful young things learning how to be grown-ups and rarely, if ever, dealing with finicky things like money, or suburban, middle-class family shenannigans. Not sure if the pendulum might not be starting to swing back a little though. Interesting to watch.

True. I know that a lot of men hated her. Mouthy damn woman... ;)

I think I'm going to find all the reruns this weekend.

Oops sorry. I went in to add a little edit and ended up doubling my post after your reply :p

Have you seen Modern Family? It's a really good show!

More Kinder Surprises, that's what you need. Thin the herd some. :D

Maybe this is part of a continuing story from Florida, or maybe it's nothing.
But the article ticked me off... because I do believe the Republicans are
being hypocrites on this voter fraud issue and strict photo ID requirements.

CBS News
Lucy Madison
October 19, 2012,

Man arrested for tossing voter registration forms in Virginia

Let this be a lesson: If you're going to do something potentially illegal like that, use a diamond cut shredder first! Privacy is paramount after all.

You're assuming they're smart enough to operate one. Yeah, I know it's easy for you and for me...but a lot of those guys aren't particularly bright.

But our trash collection company refuses to pick up and re-cycle shredded paper. :neutral:

Then your trash company is the liberal poster child of everything wrong with this country! I'll bet they even hate freedom, the troops and Mom's Apple Pie!

Did I do that right? I'm not well versed in blather.

You're right... and they don't even pick up styrofoam peanuts !

Recycle?? what are you, some kind of tree-hugging commie?

This lead graphic in this NY Times article about the PEW Voting Study is going to raise a real STINK in Oregon...

NY Times
By ADAM LIPTAK
Published: February 5, 2013

Lost Votes, Problem Ballots, Long Waits? Flaws Are Widespread, Study Finds
Attachment 42735

From this graphic , you would think Oregon is dead last in all parameters.
But in fact, Oregon is in the top 4, 5, or 6 of all the (pct) parameters presented.

Attachment 42736

The Oregon Sec of State will certainly have a letter off to PEW shortly...

That graphic isn't an aggregation of the other parameters. It's a different parameter altogether, so there should be no surprise that it doesn't line up with them. If you click it on the NYT site, it shows you similar graphics for other parameters, which call out other states.