What is the ethical thing to do?
 

Ok, here is my dilemma:

I borrowed my step son's 2008 Ford Edge on Wednesday. I had to take my mother in law (his maternal grandmother) to a couple of doctor's appointments and my wife needed her car to get to a client for some meetings and mom can't physically get into my car. I am the usual one taking her to appointments as I work from home and am available.

The Ford Edge is their older family car and sits in the driveway most days because my step son and his wife both have a newer car and either drive separately to work or car pool. But sometimes my step son uses it, mostly if his new 2015 Corvette is in the shop (seems like quite often with software glitches) or he just doesn't want to put the miles on it. Daughter in law only drives her new Ford Explorer. I've borrowed the Edge in the past when my car was needing a repair, if I had to take mom places or if I was taking their 5 kids somewhere since they won't legally fit in my car of my wife's.

So on Friday I gassed it up with a full tank and vacummed it out so I would return it in better shape then I when I got it. Wife and I planned to return it on Saturday morning. On the way home from the gas station to my house on Friday at 4pm I suddenly notice the temperature is rising fast on the gauge so I pull into a grocery store parking lot and check under the hood only to find virtually no water in the sealed reservoir bottle for the radiator. I quickly purchased 3 gallons of water and proceeded to pout it in and fill it up. And then I noticed the water was dripping out under the car. I figured some hose out of sight had failed.

I called my step son but got no answer so left a message and also texted him. Then I left a message for my daughter in law. Got a call back from her later with a "So what have you done to our car?" question. I explained I thought a hose had given out and she said her husband had had the car completely serviced in November by Ford. So I asked her to ask him what he wanted me to do? Should I tow it to Ford or a local shop? Did he have towing insurance coverage? She said she would get back to me. I called my wife who left work and came and got me. We sat in the parking lot waiting for an hour and finally went home as we had no reply.

I tried calling her after an hour and got her voice mail and tried again at the 2 hour mark. She replied that he didn't want to talk to me or deal with it as he had to take a final for an online class towards his degree. "Ok" I said, "I'll leave it at the store for the night and have it towed to a repair shop in the morning and not to the dealer since they charge so much more."

Next morning I follow it on the tow truck to the shop and leave it and they call back at 2PM and say it is the water pump seal and that they don't do that repair as it is pretty major on an Edge and that it would need to go to the dealer. They indicated the labor alone is $1000!

At this point I still had not heard from my step son so I called him. He was cordial enough and I asked if he had towing coverage as it had to be taken to the dealer. He said he would check and called me back saying he did. I said I would take care of the bill at the local shop and the towing. I kind of felt responsible as I had decided to take it there. The bill was only $125 (70 for towing, the rest was diagnostic). He asked if I could follow the tow to the dealer, he had called them to advise it was coming but both he and his wife were doing other things with kids so couldn't take care of it. I agreed.

Later that evening, my wife said she had spoken with her son and he was really mad at me for damaging his car and expected me to pay for the repairs. I was speechless. The water pump failed on a car with 100 thousand miles and is 7 years old in Houston where summertime is really hot. Nonetheless he felt I was responsible as I was at the wheel.

So I texted him and suggested we get together today to talk about what would be fair. He sent back an angry text saying I was always borrowing his car and putting miles on it and he was tired of it. Funny but he never indicated that in the past. Now, keep in mind that I unselfishly give up countless hours helping both of them out with kids who are home sick from school or doing minor and major repairs around their home. Last fall I even did a major electrical job for their new double oven in their kitchen and installed it perfectly into the existing cabinet. Well, that didn't seem to carry any weight, he insisted I was responsible. So I went on line to my financial site for my few investments and initiated a transfer of $2000 since I have no idea what it will end up costing.

Sorry this is so long. I just don't feel ethically bound to pay for the entire repair, I would agree to pay half or help out but I fail to see how a wear and tear part on an older car failing is my fault. Funny but my step son had used the car earlier this week to go to the city for jury duty. Wish it had broken on him! I would feel the opposite and responsible if I had caused damage like in an accident. I even feel glad it was me in a small way because I regularly monitor my dashboard and saw the overheating happening. I doubt he or his wife would have.

I guess my further dilemma is that I have had a rough relationship with him over the years. His mother was widdowed and he never fully liked our getting married 16 years ago but I thought we had moved beyond that. We have had a few big arguments on issues over the years but always have been able to forgive and forget. But now I am having this sense that while I will pay for the car if that will make him happy I really won't do him any favors in the future. I feel bad because in the end it might make relations worse. I fell like the next time they ask me to get the grand kids or watch them I would just say I am already committed elsewhere. I'd like to suggest he or his wife take time off from work to get his grandmother to her next doctor's appointment. Need a repair at home or my advice? Sorry buddy... Is that being petty? Maybe, but I feel really taken advantage of and not treated fairly.

Totally understand why you feel like pulling right back on any future help.

I agree. I would say that all interactions for the foreseeable future should be done through your wife, since he is her son after all. The next time Grandma needs to go to the doctor, your wife needs to call her son and ask which of them wants to do it. It's not cool for them to have never mentioned their grievances until now, and I suspect their opinion will change when they are forced to see how much work you've been doing that they've been taking for granted.

Yeah, fuck 'em. bearing in mind it may limit grandchild contact.

Yes, I will let my wife handle interactions for the foreseeable future. This kind of thing frustrates her as she often says how much this son is like his deceased father who apparently could be a real dick sometimes. She just shook her head yesterday and said we will figure out how to cover it. Frustrating because while we get by financially we barely do each month and my step son and his wife bring in close to $200,000 per year, have new cars and a new home and every kind of tech gadget out there. I'm pretty sure if his mother had borrowed the car it wouldn't have been such an issue but I think his feelings towards me lie buried

One thing I find kind of amusing is that my step son can be especially tough on his older 2 teenagers (14 year old son and 13 year old step daughter). He has no patience for them being moody or emotional or avoiding an issue that needs attention. I wanted so badly last night to ask him why he was being rather childish in not returning my call or communicating his feelings on the issue for over 24 hours. If he had at least spoken to me the first towing probably would have been covered as well as the second.

Ummm.... I wonder if a different title should be:
What is the mature thing to do ?

As I read the OP, I hear an older generation missing a cliche...
If you borrow something, you're responsible for it.
If you don't like that responsibility, don't borrow.

The younger seems to be saying the same thing, but from their POV
If someone doesn't want to fix my stuff, then they don't get to borrow it.

Also, among family members there may also be a financial POV...
Here, can the younger afford this repair bill as much as the elder ?
The usual family situation would be, No, they can't.

I don't quite agree and can't rely on cliches. As I said I would have no problem covering any repair that I caused to happen. I can hardly be found at fault for the failure of a seal on a water pump.

My main vehicle is a Land Rover which is a glitchy problem prone vehicle. Yet I would not expect anyone to pay for an internal engine part breaking if I loaned it to them because it is a wear and tear item. Hell, my car often breaks down even when I do treat it with care and do proactive maintenance! If I loaned out a car with bad tires and the tire blew causing the borrower harm one could argue that I am at fault for loaning out a car with bad tires. Yet a water pump is hardly a part you replace on a proactive basis. In my opinion no one is at fault. I think I would have felt better if my step son had approached it that way and suggested we split the repair cost.

As I mentioned, my step son and his wife make about double per year then my wife and I and while they have a large family are pretty flushed with cash. Paying over $1000 for them is not as big a hit as for me at this stage of my life and having to reduce my few investments.

I just don't see his response that I somehow caused this to be mature at all. Because I am mature I plan to pay for the repair. But is that the ethical thing to do? My title remains the same.

Devil's Advocate
 

Yes.

You're responsible for returning the vehicle in the same working condition it was in when you borrowed it. Your fault, their fault, no one's fault, in the absence of a specific loan agreement you're responsible. They've probably already put a lot of money into the vehicle maintaining it for their own use from which you benefitted. That should come at no additional cost to them in terms of money or convenience.

If the mileage you put on their car was the straw that broke the camel's back; but, the water pump failed the very next time one of them drove the car, you wouldn't be offering to pay for it ... not even half.

There was no quid pro quo regarding watching their children as you do that as much for the benefit of your relationship with the children as for the parents. Any work you did for the adults was pro bono as was them loaning you the car. They haven't been charging you a rental fee have they? It's a wash.

Considering the disparity between your incomes, it would have been magnanimous of them to pay for repairs even if it was just half. Perhaps they like you, but not that much.

If you're going to borrow cars, get your own towing insurance or join an auto club. They cover you in rental and borrowed vehicles. Trying to put any towing expense on the vehicle owners was low class. It added insult to injury.

Filling the tank and cleaning the vehicle was a nice gesture. Considering your relationship with them, the money would have been better spent being put towards a rental car. It may make the difference between being frugal and being cheap. The latter can come back to bite you in the wallet.

:p:

Thanks Sexobon for your reply, it was well thought out. I agree with some of your comments.

No they didn't charge me a rental fee but the sole reason I had asked to borrow there extra lesser used car was that I needed one that his grandmother could get into (aged 88). She, nor I have an extra $100+ to rent a car for a day just to get to 2 doctors appointments. I don't carry Comprehensive on my insurance so that is not an option to add it. I don't see how asking him if his insurance would pay for at least the second tow was out of place as he pays for that every time he sends in a check to the insurance company, there was no out of pocket expense. It would be stupid not to take advantage of something that is paid for and he had no problem with checking his policy and making the call to get the tow. I take offense at your describing me as low class and cheap. I live on a very tight budget but I am not cheap.

Yes, in the end I probably won't do less with the kiddos. I just got a Skype call from the 8 year old wanting to know if she and her sister can come over for a few days during spring break, maybe go to a movie. I said yes.

I think if I show less generosity it will be towards my step son. I feel blaming me for his water pump breaking while I used the vehicle is not fair. I can think of plenty of times I've picked up parts or supplies for a project on his house and never bothered to get reimbursed. Not because I forgot or lost the receipt but because it was a kind gesture on my part to help his family. I certainly don't feel any kindness coming from him right now.

Don't worry, I have learned my lesson. I won't be borrowing anything from him again. The funny thing is that I've loaned out tools and a few cameras in days past that malfunctioned or broke with no cause by the borrower and never asked for them to pay me for the repair. I chalked it up to a part just wearing out and was thankful that no one got injured.

This is gonna sound strange coming from the old Gravdigr, but, I'd fix the car if I could afford it.

Don't know about future relations, though. I'd probably avoid him for a while, see if he maintains the 'tude.

This way, I'm the bigger guy, see. I don't borrow as a rule, but, I try to be responsible with other people's stuff. Even if Joe's shovel handle had a crack in it, if it broke while I was using it, I'd buy Joe another shovel.

But, If Joe pressed the attitude, Joe might get a broken shovel thrown at him.

Thanks Gravdigr for your comment.

Yes, I will fix it and I called the stealership this morning to give them my contact information. Then I stopped by my investment broker to initiate the sale of some funds from my beneficiary IRA which I can draw on with no penalties. I explained the scenario to both my broker and his office manager and they both shook their heads and commented that didn't think I was financially responsible and my step son was wrong to demand I do so. I no longer have credit cards that I can just whip out and charge the repair.

But I will pay to fix it because it is the bigger thing to do and I know that I am the bigger man and it will keep some family peace. And I don't want to do anything to jeopardize my close relationship with my grand kids, they are in no way involved so I won't hesitate to watch them or pick them up from school on rainy days or when they are sick. Letting them suffer from this would be as bad as parents who are divorcing and get the kids in the middle of it.

That being said, I doubt I will offer any help to my step son for awhile. I also don't think I will socialize with him, we typically do holiday dinners at there house and I won't be attending this Easter. My wife and I had a long talk about it and she pointed out that he is like his late father and his possessions are more important than anything. She used that old expression, "he'll cut off his nose to spite his face."

Shit happens. When it happens when you are at the helm, its on you.

For a handtool - sure - it's in my possession and it breaks that's on me. I borrow your car and a long-term wear and tear problem becomes apparent whilst i am using it? No - that belongs to the car owner. I bump it, that's on me. A part of the car wears through because it reached the end of that part's life - not my fault.



[eta]not that you should have lent me your car in the first place, you crazy fucker, I haven't got a licence. Wtf is wrong with you??

WOW, WHAT A COCKSUCKER

what dana said.

WHAT JIM SAID

Don't buy Fords with million dollar water pumps.

When I break something I borrow I fix it or replace it. When I break it. Active voice. When it breaks because it has reached the end of its service life I typically feel responsible for the reasons Grav, Classic, and Sexobon have mentioned and offer to pay for it. That said, I would expect the lender to recognize the difference between failure of a part caused by 4-wheeling while towing a bulldozer with a 2 ton passenger car, and the failure of a seal due to old age, (tangent- WTF? $1000 for a seal? Weren't water pumps, back in the day, a $75 replacement job? I remember many times people saying thank god it was just the water pump. /tangent) acknowledge that and let me off the hook. If I may draw an analogy; if you had asked an elderly friend or neighbor to come over to your house and help catalog your stamp collection and they passed away from just being really fucking old would that put you on the hook for murder or manslaughter? Of course not. Maybe if you forced them somehow to hand dig a new septic tank in 110 degree heat, under the lash, and they died...

The real issue, unfortunately, is that your step daughter-in-law sounds like a super beeee-otch (seriously, what a cuntish attitude AND plain-old rude and disrespectful. Who talks to people that way?) and your stepson sounds like he's about 14-15 years old and unable to see things in a larger context. When this sort of shit happens to me I try to look at it as tuition for a class on how to avoid future problems with this a'hole again. Although a lot of money up front, it's a small cost in the long run.

I am reminded of that glurgy bit about the little boy who gave his mother a bill for the chores he had done around the house, she paid the bill and gave him one of her own listing all the things the ideal fairy-tale mother does for her son and under the column for charges she put n/c. In this case though I'd be tempted to put down the dollar value of my time, but that would be just as childish as him so, no.

Finally, perhaps what is underlying all of this, even more so than the money, is the disappointment you must feel in your step son and daughter-in-law. It is sad to see family members behaving this way.

According to Repair Pal, the average cost of this repair is between $772 - $974.
But that may add additional replacements of parts such as timing belt,
thermostat, cooling systems, etc.

Timing belts seem to generate very high replacement costs.

How many times have I've thought the engineers who design a product
should have to use it and to repair it ... all by themselves.

One of my worst experiences was trying to change a flat tire on a travel trailer,
where the (provided) jack would not lift the trailer high enough
to get the wheel out of the wheel-well.

It's a big job. Engines are crammed in so tightly into the engine compartments, you have to remove the wheel, and wheel well to get to the side of the engine. Sometimes drop the engine down or lift it up to gain the clearances you need, and then take off the valve cover and timing belt cover. Once you take those off, you need to replace the various gaskets and may as well replace the spark plug tubes. May as well replace the spark plugs if you are taking those out. Replace the timing belt and various tension springs and pulleys. And the timing is critical so you have to line up the teeth properly and really be meticulous. And the water pump is attached to the belt, so when you replace the belt you have already done 95% of the water pump job, so you might as well replace the water pump and flush the coolant and replace that. As long as you do that, check the thermostat and maybe replace it. Before you know it, you're at a couple grand.

This water pump is inside the engine under the front cover and behind the timing chains (no belts on this engine). Stupid design if you ask me.

I just got the call from the stealership, I think the service guy was nervous telling me the cost of the job. $1785 plus tax (about $147). It is 12 hours labor and they do an oil system flush and fluid change because it is possible water may have gotten into the crankcase. When I spoke to my financial adviser to get the funds released he called a friend who has an independent shop for an idea of the job and the guy said he would charge at least $1500. So since it was already at the Ford dealer and that is where my step son takes his Ford cars, even for simple things like oil changes that is where it goes. Oh and I also saw one of those price estimators and it said the same thing so they are way off on the estimate!

I'm still upset at being blamed for this, the service rep told me he has never seen an Edge water pump go out with that few miles. It just sucks that I was the one driving it. I got to wondering how my stepson would have felt if something would have happened to make the car crash, like a wheel just coming off from a part failing and I was seriously injured or even killed. Would he be worrying about who was going to pay for his precious car? Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Other interesting point is that when my stepson bought the Ford Explorer a few months ago as the replacement for the Edge they offered him only $6000 for it (he always does trade-ins as opposed to selling an old car himself) so he decided to keep it for his 14 year old son who will be learning to drive and also for when he doesn't want to drive his $80,000 2015 red Corvette to work. So my repair will be around 1/3 of the value of the car. I can remember when you could get an entire engine overhaul for not much more then $2500!

Weasels-on-a-woodpecker, man, that's a lot of cake for a water pump.

Good man, Chris.

Take some doublekickass pics of his kids...The offer them to him.

For a price.

Maybe you saw the thread I started on under Parenting, "Do you swear or curse or cuss around your offspring" and the post on my stepson referring to everyone in conversations as "dude". Same family and both of them swear directly at their kids mostly in anger. Lots of "stupid fucking moron, asshole, bitch," etc. Sometimes it really shocks me the way they curse at them. Thankfully the kids seem to let it all roll by. Sadly I know that as adults and parents they will probably be more likely to do that with their kids or spouse as they grew up with it.

:thumb::cheerldr:

Actually I picked up the younger 4 today and took them to see the Paddington movie and lunch at Fudruckers. With the movie, an overpriced theater snack and hamburgers the day ran my around $60 but I enjoyed spending that money on the kiddos. Funny movie, too.

Just spoke with my wife. She was speechless on the cost of the repair. I told her they have to order the part and the car might be done by Friday. I don't plan on updating my step son or his wife on the car. Let them wonder about it and call me to ask if they have the nerve.

I told my wife she can follow me over on Saturday morning to drop it off. I plan to just leave it in front of their house, the key I used they leave in the glove box as they have a keyless access. So I will just put the key in, lock it and leave the receipt on the seat for him to look at and file away.

Fuck me, what an expensive car trip that turned out to be :p

Worth reiterating, in terms of who carries the can on a car breakdown - that you hadn't borrowed his car to go do stuff for yourself but to take his grandparent somewhere - his grandparent to whom you are not related.

I'd be really upset. The whole unfair attitude of blame would upset me. You seem to be handling this really well imo.

These are bad people. It doesn't matter if they're saying "idiot" or "fucktard" at that point, if they're angrily saying it directly at the kids, then I'm surprised you've put up with them as long as you have. Do what you can for those kids, man. They're going to need your influence.

this. And honestly, send a bill for pictures you have already taken an given them. One that equals your outlay on his pile-o-junk

I hate country music, but I think this might be appropriate here. have your wife write the bill :)

@Chris:

These two postings say to me that you're following your best paths.

Keeping the family relations you value and avoiding personal requital,
both leave you in better family leadership position and reputation.
... one that I'm sure you will be proud of in the future...
despite the short term $ issues that may seem important right now.

I think you've done very well.

Nice touch.

Yes. All that swearing, name-calling, and disparaging is straight-up abuse. If that's the rule in that household, don't let it go by. Those kids will be ruined in all sorts of ways.

Your stepson and dil have sent you a clear message. I'd be removing myself from their vicinity and handing back grandma's care and chauffering to the blood relatives. You don't want to be accused of murdering grandma if she has a heart attack while you're driving her around.

Grandma is his mother-in-law, if he backs away it's on his wife.

Maybe it's time for his wife to step up. Seems she's been pretty quiet through this bullshit, just expressing some angst over the bill but not expressing anything re the shitty way her kids are treating her husband.

Time for her to step up. She owes it to her husband, who as far as I can see owes not one second more of his time or effort to HER blood relatives, and who has been treated like shit by same.

I have been watching this thread with interest and I hope Chris finds a satisfactory resolution to the car trouble. I think that's easier and more likely than finding a satisfactory resolution to his family trouble.

orthodoc, your emphasis on "blood relatives" is not one I share. For me, I have blood relatives that are emotionally distant though biologically close and non blood (non relatives come to think of it) that are the very center of my heart. Even one's spouse is not a blood relative (unless, cause, ew).

I find the members of my family of choice more consistently important to me than the members of my family of birth.

I put that very badly. What I was thinking was that Chris appears to have had a difficult time in his relationship with his stepson, and has been kept at a distance. He has worked at the relationship despite the difficulties, and has done what he could to assist with his mother-in-law's needs. But it doesn't appear, from what he's written, that his wife has his back in this situation. He's the one being treated as 'not family' and she's not speaking up on the issue, although she's good with him going out of his way despite that, and despite the ongoing hostility and rudeness her son and dil show him.

It's not the issue of 'blood family' vs 'non-blood family', it's whether or not his wife has his back. I think last night my brain went to sleep before my body did.

I'm happy to see you expand on your answer orthodoc, thanks. I agree that there are levels of hostility and rudeness coming from the stepson and the dil that would surpass my boundaries. That's sad. They're adults and the prospect of "teaching" them anything in this area is very poor. They *might* learn and change, but it will be only on their own terms. Which, as many have pointed out and with which I agree, that Chris limit his exposure to situations where this kind of crap could/would happen. Although, that can be hard to predict; who would have expected this kind of shitstorm from the start of this episode?

Only people who've experienced this kind of treatment before, namely Chris and the rest of the players. It's sad.

Chris, I think if I were in your shoes, I'd do what satisfied *my* sense of fairness, what I felt did the best for all involved, including my own future prospects. In my opinion, unless you drove the hell out of their car, you did nothing that "broke" the car. You can't break a water pump like that. For all I know, it was broken before you sat down in it. Would you be on the hook for it sitting broken in the garage before you turned the key? No.

But, there are clearly lots of aspects to consider, and you're thinking twice and cutting once, good for you. Sorry your kids are being such disrespectful, juvenile jerks. That sucks. Do what's right by your lights, because it doesn't seem like the others *can* be satisfied no matter what.

Good luck man.

There's a sorta zen answer to all of this:

It's wonderful that he has given you the opportunity to be the bigger person.

Surely he will give you more opportunities in the future. It makes you wonder if he feels badly about himself, in some way. Is there a father-son resentment that he's carrying out in his relationship with you? How's his life with dad been?

I imagine it's been kind of chilly:

Good comments as usual UT. Yes, I've calmed down and am sort of taking a Budhist like response at this point that I'll be a better person for just taking care of this then lowering myself to get in a quarrel.

As for son and birth dad; he was a rather rebellious child who bucked his father's authority as a teenager. He walked away from a fully paid scholarship to college to join the Air Force which upset both parents. Dad died not long after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and although he had visited him just before, he was not there when dad died as he was still in the Air Force and on duty. 20 years later he is much like his dad and more so than his older brother.

Just an update and thanks for the feedback so far.

I spoke with the service rep at the stealership last Wednesday (March 11) and authorized the repair. My financial broker's office person called me the next day and said a check for $2000 had been cut and should be in the mail to me. Because the account is an inherited beneficiary IRA from my late father they can't do direct deposit. Not sure why but that is the rule. I told my step son it would be Saturday at best before the car would be ready as the service rep said it was about 12 hours labor, thus the high cost.

Saturday came and went and Monday afternoon the rep called and said the car was ready, the total was $1768. My mail usually comes late in the day so I told him it would be a day or 2 before I could get the car picked up. My wife, who had just gotten paid on the 15th said she could cover the repair but I said I wanted to at least deposit the funds so we didn't get into a bind if there was a delay.

On Tuesday I texted my step son about the car and that I was still waiting for the check, He texted back something like "OK, we can work out the details on paying for it later" which made me wonder if he had had a change of heart and we might split the costs. Then my daughter in law called and was very cheery and asked if I was going to be able to pick up her daughter (age 8) who gets out on Wednesday's an hour before her older brother (age 10) who is responsible for their safe walk home and being alone until older siblings get home from middle school. This is what I do most Wednesdays. I like it as I get to help her with homework and play a bit. She also asked if I could pick up youngest grand daughter (age 6) who goes to day care after her day at kindergarten and is usually picked up by parents on the way home. Daughter in law said she and husband were going to the Houston Rodeo for the concert. The oldest (grandson who is 14) would be in charge and supervise dinner (something sounding horrible to me called Pizza Bites or a bowl of Raman); not my idea of a good dinner.

I said no problem as I will not let any of this interfere with my time with the kids. I explained to her about the car and that as of that time my mail had not come so still did not have the check and to let husband know. We hung up and she called me back and said she spoke with him and they would just stop and pick the car up and "we could work out the details later." "Fine", I said. No check in Tuesday's mail which seemed odd so I phoned my rep and told him and he agreed it was odd but to wait one more day.

Wednesday I took my mother in law to her Kidney Dr. as she has been having s lot of fluid retention in her feet. I was able to use my wife's car this time (as mentioned she can not get into my lifted Land Rover). Got home in time to inhale a late lunch and then head to the kids home where I played with the puppy who had been penned up and went and picked up kids and waited for older siblings to get home and then left to get my wife from work. We had to go by her mother's to go over the instructions for the 24 hour urine collection test the Dr. wanted her to do. Did you know you have to refrigerate that big jug of collected urine? I joked with her to not get confused and think it was her orange juice. Mom likes me because I joke with her like that.

Got home at 6pm and no check in the mail but a notice from the Edward Jones main office advising a check was cut on the 12th. So where the hell is my check and what do I do if I never get it?

Now it's Thursday early morning and I left a message at broker's office. Guess they will do a stop payment and issue another check.

So, car is picked up an not much else is certain yet. Stay tuned! :yelsick:

If you blow their chance to have Pizza Bites and Raman, without hand washing and manners, they'll never forgive you. http://cellar.org/2012/nono.gif

If appears your relationship with your step-son hasn't improved in all these years, and logic says it won't. You're not stupid, you must be aware of that, so none of this should come as a surprise. Like owning a horse that kicks occasionally, watch where you're walking.

The office manager for my financial adviser had the main office cancel the check and told me to just tear it up if it ever comes. Then she did some research and said that the home office said they could transfer $2000 from my beneficiary IRA to my Roth IRA and then do a direct deposit to my bank from there. Said it would be in my account by tomorrow.

Mail came a bit early and the check arrived...:facepalm:

I've actually pretty much gotten over the hurt and insulted feeling. I'm still kind of mad but what the heck, I'd rather take the high road and not lower myself to fight over this. During one of my conversations with my wife it came to me that my step son said he did appreciate the things I have done for him and the family since they moved in. But it dawned on me that he may appreciate it but he doesn't value it because I don't make a living doing those things. I mean if I were an electrician or did construction and said I could install his oven and save him hiring someone I think he might have seen the value in that more than me just being a guy who is knowledgeable and volunteers to help.

So the stepbrat paid for the repair and picked the car up after all that fuss?

Well he and his wife picked it up and did pay for it but with the plan that "we will work it out later" like probably this weekend. It was that or he wasn't going to get the car until I got the money into my bank.

I think you're off the hook, frankly. I don't feel like you need to "work it out". Especially if you already covered the tow Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Some people just assume that because you can, you should. that isn't always the case.

The final chapter
 

Ok, this is the final chapter in my story. Saturday was my daughter in law's 38th birthday and we had picked up a card and a gift and my wife texted her son that we were going to stop by and drop the items off and also settle up. He replied that was fine and they were taking the kids to a movie and advised when they would get home. We went over about 4pm and visited while she opened her card and gift. But we never got around to discussing the car, it just didn't seem right as their kids were all about and it seemed more important to congratulate her on her birthday, etc. They were all going out for a celebratory dinner so we said goodbye.

Sunday we caught up with them around 4pm and we sat in the family room making small talk. Finally I was getting tired of this 800lb elephant in the room and suggested we settle up and said something like "So, what do I owe you?"

My stepson sat there and said, "Well, I don't have an opinion on that." He sort of stared off rather then look either of us in the eye.

"Well, how much was the repair?" I asked.

"$1768" he sort of sighed.

I looked at my wife and said, "well you know how to transfer the funds so go ahead and do whatever needs to be done." We then talked a bit about the repair and why it was so expensive. The parts (albeit OEM parts from the Ford Dealer) were not too expensive, like $220 so most of the bill was labor. My stepson reminded his mother of when he was first in the Air Force and transferred to New Jersey and his Toyota Forerunner's water pump went out and it had only cost $400 or so to fix.

We all got up and went outside, the kids both smoke but only do so outside and they each lit up a cigarette. My daughter in law asked what I was doing this coming week and I replied, "not much. I have to take Grannie to the pain management Dr. in the Woodlands on Tuesday and a new Cardiologist on Friday." Seemed appropriate to point out that my 2 big activities once again involved his grandmother. My daughter in law asked how busy I would be in May. I usually know this question will proceed her telling me they need a baby sitter. "I'm available, where are you going?" I asked. She said she had to go to Las Vegas for a work convention and stepson wanted to go, the kids are still in school so I and my wife usually just go live with them for a few days. We finished up by discussing Grannie's 88th birthday next Saturday. My wife has purchased a group gift, new patio furniture for her new apartment and solicited donations from all the grand kids.

We said goodbye and left, all smiles as I was determined not to let the whole in my pocket bother me. My wife and I drove home with a planned stop at the grocery store. She got a text and said out loud, "God, he can be a jerk." "What's up?" I asked. "He says to let him know what isn't covered by the other kids for Grannie's birthday and he will cover it. He also said he still doesn't have an opinion on the car but that he thinks splitting the bill seems a better option" she replied.

I rolled my eyes. "Well it sounds like he does have an opinion after all. If I had know he only wanted half the amount I would not have taken so much out of my IRA! I can't put it back now. Plus there is a tax implication with using those funds" Not completely happy but splitting it is better me paying full price.

My wife agreed and said, "Funny he mentioned the water pump on the old Toyota. I paid for that repair, too. Plus I had bought the car for him before he left."

End of story. We decided to put the rest of the money I pulled into savings for when we go to my daughter's wedding in September in Seattle. In the end I don't really care about the repair or paying for it. I feel like I took the high road. It's water under the bridge as they say. I'm moving on.

You've been reassured nothing has changed and not likely it will.

"I have no opinion" reeks of, "I still think you should pay for all of it but I've been informed by the lady folk that I will keep that opinion to myself."

yep.

Well, next time he requests some type of help that requires the use of their vehicle, you know your answer.

"I don't have an opinion on that"

"I have no opinion" in the context of the story, followed by a text expressing his opinion = "I'm not assertive enough to ask you to your face for $890."

But if his opinion was other than 50%, the text would have said so. Everyone's brave in text messages.

Family + money = complicated.

Sounds like the relationship with the little ones is worth it tho.

Blame Ford, they produced the car that hid one of the most commonly failed components inside the engine where it becomes a major repair. Call ralph Nader. Demand a recall. Insist on a lemon law buy back.

Or just move on. :cool:

Sounds like you've handled a tough situation about as well as could be expected, Chris.