The Cellar - Punctuation.

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- - Punctuation. (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=31015)

Even people who failed high school English realize the internet holds a nightmare of murdered language and punctuation.

Wats a problem dude we no wat we sayin?

In the real world it's important, especially if it ends up in court. Examples.

Quote:

In Ward v. Ward, a North Carolina court’s entire finding rested on the presence of a single comma. The will of Alvin T. Ward read:

My Trustee is directed to pay such amounts of and from the income generated by said trust, and from the principal of said trust if he deems same to be advisable, to, for, or on account of my said wife in quarterly installments or more frequently if he deems advisable and if practicable.

Is the trustee required to pay the income to Ward’s wife, or can he use his discretion? The income payments are required, ruled the court: The comma after “said trust” shows that only the distribution of the principal is left to the trustee’s judgment.
-----
In Henderson v. State, Jacob Henderson’s 1984 burglary conviction in Mississippi was reversed in part because of a misplaced period:

The Grand Jurors for the State of Mississippi, … upon their oaths present: That Jacob Henderson … on the 15th day of May, A.D., 1982.

This is a “non-sentence,” noted the court. “The unmistakable period after 1982 is used by astute defense counsel to nail down the point — that the indictment fails to charge that Jacob Henderson did anything on May 15, 1982.”
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And in People v. Vasquez, a New York court disregarded an affidavit and dismissed a complaint because a misplaced comma made it unclear whether a key affidavit was hearsay:

“It may be that the confusion [about the affidavit] arises from the typographical error of placing a comma before the expression ‘upon information and belief,'” wrote the court. “Had the comma not existed, the entire expression ‘and that the assertion upon information and belief’ would have referred back to the earlier mentioned accusatory instruments so as to render the affidavit non-hearsay.”

Getting it in writing may not be enough. :smack:

Communication is hard.

Quote:

My Trustee is directed to pay such amounts of and from the income generated by said trust, and from the principal of said trust if he deems same to be advisable, to, for, or on account of my said wife in quarterly installments or more frequently if he deems advisable and if practicable.

Quote:

Is the trustee required to pay the income to Ward’s wife, or can he use his discretion? The income payments are required, ruled the court: The comma after “said trust” shows that only the distribution of the principal is left to the trustee’s judgment.

That sounds like it was the intent of the trust, and punctuated properly. The beneficiary is guaranteed the income, and if circumstances justify dipping into the principal, then the trustee can decide. If it got to court, then the trustee was trying to stop paying the trust's beneficiary even out of income.

I guessed the wife(beneficiary) wanted more money the trustee didn't think was necessary, but that comma killed her case in court. He had probably talked to the husband when he got the job and instructed to limit the payments so the trust would last, or be passed down a generation. But he was given the flexibility to adjust for unexpected shit hitting the fan.

Quote:

Is the trustee required to pay the income to Ward’s wife, or can he use his discretion? The income payments are required, ruled the court: The comma after “said trust” shows that only the distribution of the principal is left to the trustee’s judgment.

I read this as saying that the court ruled that she must be paid the income, regardless of the trustee's discretion. The trustee can decide whether it is justified to, additionally, pay her from the principal.

Apparently someone was trying to claim that the "trustee's discretion" clause also applied to income payment, and therefore the trustee could decide not to pay her the income. I guessed that the trustee would be the most likely one to make that claim.

As I read it, the actual order agrees with my interpretation. It appears that the trustee had floated the idea of not paying her the entire trust income, and she sued to get the clause clarified.

Reading it, I think your right that he at least mentioned (or threatened) it was up to him whether she got all the income.

Oh that's brilliant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 933069)

Commas...

This!

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 933069)

Commas...

That was outstanding, actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 933069)

Commas...

I'll just leave this here

I think you left it somewhere else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 948409)

I think you left it somewhere else.

Possibly. I love it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 948403)

Attachment 54460

How do I get one? Is there an alt key combo? Do I put it in the front or end of the sentence?

IDK to all that. And I looked.

A little.

We can do it the hard way or the hard way http://cellar.org/2015/sarcasmpoint.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 948488)

How do I get one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 948761)

We can do it the hard way or the hard way http://cellar.org/2015/sarcasmpoint.jpg

Here, ya can have this one...........................^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 948766)

Here, ya can have this one...........................^

or this one

؟

Punchation is just another form of violence. It should be banned.

No wonder it is taught by English Nazis.

Never mind percontation points (because mine has fallen off its perch ¿) I want my sarcasm font!

Can we recycle all the excess ¿apostrophe's into percontation points?

Maybe the entire second paragraph is preceded by the irony mark?

I don't see it in the screen capture, but that's what monster linked, and it seems to be different than what was 'splained before.:confused:

However, since neither is on my keyboard, fuck it.

Jack Douglass did a show several years ago on his YouTube channel called "Your Grammer Sucks". Check out jackfilms if you wish to see it.

I look at my wife and say, honey your face makes time stand still, but what if I said, honey your face would stop a clock. It means the same thing, right?

tarheel

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainhook455 (Post 970795)

I look at my wife and say "Honey, your face makes time stand still."; but, what if I said "Honey, your face would stop a clock."? It means the same thing, right?

Not to her.

Punctuation can sometimes be a matter of life or death.

Quote:

A panda walks into a restaurant, sits down and orders a sandwich. After he finishes eating the sandwich, the panda pulls out a gun and shoots the waiter, and then stands up to go.

"Hey!" shouts the manager. "Where are you going? You just shot my waiter and you didn't pay for your sandwich!"

The panda yells back at the manager, "Hey man, I am a PANDA! Look it up!"

The manager opens his dictionary and sees the following definition for panda: "A tree-dwelling marsupial of Asian origin, characterised by distinct black and white colouring. Eats shoots and leaves."

Lynne Truss is the author of 'Eats shoots and leaves' described as being 'The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation'.

Said book also has its own Wiki page which relates the above story but confusingly ends with the line "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

To comma, or not to comma? That is the question.

One of the problems with aural jokes versus visual jokes. The proper telling hinges on perfectly timing the pauses where the commas would be spoken; too short a pause would sound like a list Verb, Noun, Noun, too long would sound like a description of events, Verb, Verb, Verb.

Unless you are referring to the lack of an Oxford comma after shoots.

I went to Canada today, and they flagged me for inspection. They (and American customs) seem to get weird when I explain that I'm in Detroit for work but actually from KC.

"They say it's a lottery, and I never win anything, so whoopee!"--Lewis Black on airport security (which applies in this scenario as well)

"You're in Detroit for what?" "Work?!"

"Please step out of the line, sir."[/rubberglovesnap]

"Sir, what's with the eyebrows?"