Paris attacks
 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...sions-hostages

Things are moving fast, so this is likely out of date already.

This feels horribly close to home. I feel for the parisians tonight.

According to the Guardian and Reuters, the death toll maybe around 140. Other sources are saying 118.

Did you make a cup of tea?

Paris is just some spatter from that boiling pot in the middle east. 100, 200, 1000 casualties, are nothing compared to the tallies of millions the warring Muslims have, and will continue to, rack up. That pot will boil until all the Sunnis or all the Shiites are dead. Outside powers and interventions are just temporary dampers on the Muslim uncivil war. If that war comes to an end, then they'll be at war with the rest of the world. You ain't seen nothing yet. :(

I'm confident that British professionals are just as capable of preventing such things from happening in England as French professionals were capable of preventing such a thing in Paris and American professionals at preventing any such thing in New York.

Once you've made your cup of tea, café au lait or claret, espresso or cocktail, you've done all that a civilized person can be expected to do. Lives lost are a paltry sum when compared to losing one's veneer.

VIVE LA FRANCE (sauf quelques Parisiens)

I just learned of these attack on my way home from the State Water Polo Championships. I feel so badly for one of the players on our team -who completely excelled himself tonight and led us to victory- he's French, and I think from Paris, and his wonderful victory will be so cruelly tainted. Yes, I know, he's alive and safe...... But he's so young and so vibrant that his sadness and that of his lovely crazy family is likely to be what will affect us around here the most directly.

And completely out of the park, I feel badly for enjoying a "private joke" I shared with no-one tonight. Part of my job was to occasionally wave a white flag and I was thinking of the stereotype....... Ridiculous I know :(

Not so ridiculous. I've worked in France with the French military. I used to speak the language passably (Defense Language Institute class of '83). I'm even a qualified French military parachutist with serial numbered badge and all.

They realize that's the way their society used to work. Neither are they proud of it, nor are they ashamed of it. They just accept it as part of the great social experiment that is France. It's a work in progress and once again trying times will serve to either validate; or, repudiate the direction they're going in. They know the white flag stereotype was earned via a failed portion of their experiment.

How did the team do, monster?
Oh wait, you'll probably talk about that in another thread... nevermind

Jan's ex is half French and her oldest lad attends university in Paris. I don't know if he's over there at the moment. I suspect I'd have had a call from one of the Js if he was still over there when this went down.

I meant what was ridiculous was feeling guilty about an unrelated fairly innocent private thought I had. The French are our (brits) next door neighbors. It is said that even Brits who don't speak a word of French experience less culture shock moving to France than we do moving to the united States. Please stop being an asshole and blaming the victim. If you cannot experience any empathy for France, then maybe for those of us here who do.

Mon dieu!

Amen

I was horrified to find out about these this morning.
The idea of being at a public event where someone just opens fire.
I know death in combat/ of civilians/ for religion happens all over the world, every minute of every day. But Paris really is so close to home for me. I spent time at school in France and I love French secularism. Shame it doesn't protect them.

What monster said.

Bus crash, tornado, or heart attack. People die. It happens.

Tragedy is that some people are so wacko extremist as to be so easily brainwashed. To kill for religion - for the greater glory of their god.

How brainwashed? If they had any intelligence, then their god could do his own killing. Why is their god so inferior and pathetic as to need them to commit suicide? Extremists are the easiest to brainwash. We all suffer because of it.

Never forget the source of this tragedy.

No one has blamed the victim: however, the French own responsibility for failures in their great experiment. They accept that and take it in stride as part of their way of living. Funny that you can't while I can being that there's less culture shock between Britain and France than Britain and the United States.

Don't even flap your crap trap about empathy for France. Masses are being killed around the world all the time and they're not making it to be empathized or eulogized in threads here. This is about you, your remote connection to events, and your overreaction. The French are used to situations like this and can talk about it frankly while many Brits can't. That's where one similarity ends. Can't blame them for being language snobs with such a disparity just across the Channel.

Your request is not favorably considered.

I think many of us feel a great deal of empathy for France right now.

What I don't feel is Geraldo type pain (faux news on in the break room last nigbt) nor do I want to act like it's in my backyard just as I wouldn't feign such if it happened in, say, Pennsylvania or something. Yes, I get it, but please don't tell me all of a sudden it is your next door neighbor.

My empathy is for them.

What I said.

Much love and warm thoughts to the victims. :(

Eta: I took two years of french in hs and two quarters in college. We're not all philistines over here.

I was wondering silently how someone professed to know the victims agreed with the immigration plans of their country.

Net chatter.

aww...whut?

I think the world should just let Putin take care of Isis. He's bloodthirsty enough, and everyone will be able to have a clear conscience because it's just the bad guys killing the even badder guys.

Uh, Putin is on their side. :eyebrow:

I guess that depends which media you listen to.

I don't think you can help how you feel.
I roll my eyes at people who sob when bands break up, who leave shabby garage forecourt flowers on lamp-posts when schoolfriends die (but don't take them away when they rot), who leave toys and cards about angels when little children are killed - which would be better donated to families who are in poverty.

I think they are maudlin and possibly have a low IQ.

But I think that feeling shock and outrage at mass murder in a place you have personally been, and sadness that humanity is not as humane as we like to picture it, is reasonable.

This is not directed at you, Infi, or Sexobon, or anyone else.
And I'm not weeping and wailing all over social media.
The French will roll with this. Their problems with religion/ tolerance/ racism have existed for years. Echoes of a colonial past (ditto UK)

Just hope when the next attack comes it isn't us again.
100% selfish. 100% how I feel.

You're right. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that.

I think it's my bad response to all the bad things that happen. I am not dealing well with life.

Sorry. :(

When dice have so many sides, it is called a sphere. Which side of that sphere on you on?

I was silently wondering how immigration has anything to do with extremism. Since immigration creates stronger and more prosperous nations. And extremism does not.

Brief NSFW language. Also, yes I know I'm a sociopath please don't be mad at me it's just how I feel.

If we ever get reincarnated at about the same time I'm going to look you up.

At Mr. Clod's company, there was a COMPANY-WIDE email thread of people tagging on their thoughts and prayers and replying-all every time.

And then a guy replied in French. And then more did, to prove they knew some high school French too. And even now, this email chain is still going on in his and everyone else's inbox, in a language 99% of them can't understand.

And what good is it doing? ;)


This just in,

And what good is it doing? :D

If we had all this detailed targeting information, why weren't these targets already taken out before; unless, it wouldn't have done much good? :rolleyes:

Observed a minute's silence at 11.00.
I admit I really don't like these. I only observe them out of courtesy.
YES on Remembrance Sunday/ 11 November. And YES I understand them at football matches where someone closely connected to the club has died.
But otherwise they stick in my craw slightly. Still, makes it easier to stay silent :rolleyes:

As you will see from my earlier posts, I was genuinely affected by the murders. Having lived closely with terrorism it always will be an issue for me when it's in a place I know.
It's just random silences I can't be doing with.
They're the Facebook messages (or Clod's husband's chain email) of real life - they're arranged to make people feel like they've done something when in fact they've done nothing.

At least a memorial service, or a candlelit vigil gets you up off your seat.
Opening your house to strangers who can't get home is amazing and helpful.
Giving blood (they had to turn people away - some were waiting for three hours to donate) is important and decent and wonderful.

Shutting your yap for a minute?
Doesn't do much.

Except that French news programmes will likely report that Britain, and other countries observed a minute's silence. It's not much, but it sends a message of solidarity and support.

Jeez.

It's doing what isis wanted, a boost in their recruiting campaign.

NSFW language follows...

This young man is doing his thing on 11/13/15
He mocks others who he projects as only saying:
“Don’t forget about me.”

But who is "me" ?

In this case, "me" has the initials A J
And, aside from getting to say the word "fucking" several times in public,
A J has used his time to produce a routine worth just what he says: “fucking nothing”.

Forget Axxxxxx Jxxxxxx

.

My thoughts and prayers with Lamplighter.

Ymay oughtsthay andway ayerspray ithway Amplighterlay.

Watch the many servicemen confronted by strangers who say, "Thank you for your service." They don't want that. It clearly makes them uncomfortable. But they are also happy and appreciate discussing their service - just as you are happly to discuss events - good and bad - that happened to you.

A minute of silence is about whether the letter is capitalized or lower case. We do it to be nice or respectful. What really matters is what we do aftter the fact to learn from that history lesson. To remember why extremsits are the greatest threat to all humans. And to remember that the informed are often attacked by uneducated and therefore both emotional and violent extremists.

I heard some French dude being interviewed for a story on NPR this morning. He said that he felt good seeing pictures of all the buildings around the world lit up in the colors of the French flag, but that those good feelings were tempered by the fact that Paris was the victim of an attack.

So the various forms of expressed solidarity, whether they be lights on buildings or even just public posts on social media do have the positive benefit of making that French dude and probably his fellow countrymen feel just a little bit better. And the "don't forget about me" FB people can feel like they are involved.

After 9/11, I noticed that sometimes the people furthest away from the impact of the events felt more of a need to talk about it than those who were directly involved. Kinda weird, but that's somehow part of the human condition.

Social media is the way people communicate with "friends", so it would be natural to go there to commiserate too. The electronic back fence to gossip over.

I haven't posted anything about my personal thoughts on facebook, but I have posted lots of links for all my red neck friends to read to try and educate them about who they think is responsible for most of the terrorist activity lately.

GOP Governors (and 1 Democrat) are running scarred of the Syrians.
... at least until the War on Terror has ended :rolleyes:

States Whose Governors Oppose Syrian Refugee Resettlement
NPR - 11/17/15
http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456336...yrian-refugees

Attachment 54201

Attachment 54200

ETA: Sorry, I've lost the link to the second pic

They're probably concerned that resettled Syrians would be taking jobs away from our domestic terrorists.

The Gov of Michigan is one of the ringleaders of this witch-hunt.

Imagine how many vacant houses in Detroit could be made into homes by Syrian refugees.
Maybe these refugees would even be willing to fix them up a bit, and pay taxes on them,
and work in the community, and have kids, and join the military, and ... you know,
the same sort of things other refugees have done when given asylum in the US.

( Some might even become Republicans) :eek:

.

There was a lot of bitching about the Vietnamese refugees also, because the prolonged war which affected almost everyone. But they had money, and the skills to succeed in a better financial climate.

Syrians, work where? The jobs that allow vacant houses to be rehabbed and pay taxes on the result, have gone to China, Mexico, India. So you bring in refugees with nothing but the shirt on their back, may or may not speak English, then expect them to support themselves and rehab real estate? Lofty goals indeed. There has to be a plan to address those issues if you expect them to integrate and be successful. Otherwise they become destitute and desperate... prime for recruiting by terrorists.

I'm not saying keep them out, I'm saying do it right.

Maybe we could get France to pay us refugee support to keep them from going there. :litebulb:

Nope, France is blowing all their money doing exactly what ISIS wants.

Opening a Folies Bergère in Syria?

That would add to the circus of their recruitment campaign, I suppose. Speaking of circus, Putin said, their airliner was definitely blown up by a bomb, and unleashed 25 bombers on Syria, all on the opposite side of the country from where ISIS is.

What a bunch of preconceived ideas !
Like learning English is something that refugees have never done before.
Like these particular refugees are unskilled, incapable, and ... latent terrorists.

How much motivation did it take to risk the lives of their children to leave Syria ?
What skills did they need to assemble the $ for passage those boats ?
How did they live in Syria... putting Elephant Leaves over their head when it rained ?

What do you mean by "... do it right" ?
... Maybe we could to build a "Trumph Wall" all the way around our castle.

Sorry be sarcastic, xoB, but your response this time one is xenophobic.

Wow, Lamplighter. This is some of the most disgusting stuff you have ever written.

Our country was built by immigrants. Why do you hate America?

That is to say, you have cherry picked parts of Bruce's posts to twist them into something you can argue against, just like I did with my quote of you.

Putting refugees in vacant Detroit houses won't work because the houses are empty for a reason. There are no jobs in Detroit. If we want to absorb refugees, we need to spread them around in multiple locations where they can find work. We need to do it right.

No it wasn't but yours certainly was. Twisting what I said about doing more than just dumping the refugees, shows a black heart beneath that left liberal persona.

Glatt. Is my bit about using vacant houses in Detroit the only idea presented in my sequence of posts ?
If that is all you got from it, then strike it out.


Diverting a discussion into a throwaway issue (here, it’s jobs in Detroit) is a tactic to delay or re-direct political issues.

I think we are all bright enough around here to get the gist of xoB’s post.
It’s a judgement call as to whether my responding to several of his comments
(i.e.,” nothing but the shirt on their back”, “may not speak English”,
[insufficient skills] “to support themselves”, “prime for recruiting by terrorists” )
amounts to cherry-picking. - - - I don’t believe so.

Even from all this, we still don’t see what is meant by “...do it right “.

Series of posts? I responded to one, what you wrote, not what you may have been thinking. I gave valid reasons why it was a bad idea. You could not refute them so you twisted my response and went off in a snit.

OK, take all of my twist-lings and cherry-picking and personal-attacks and name-calling out of it.

How should the government "do it right" ?


.

I think we are all bright enough around here to know how the government should do it right.

Virginia mayor cites Japanese internment camps (favorably) in making case for halting Syrian refugees.
Washington Post -Amber Phillips - November 18

But then there are even some Democrats that are running scared.

To Wit: from today's letter of Mayor David A. Browers (Roanoke, VA)
as he requested :