Orlando
 

Fuck.

This will put the haters in a tizzy. It was a Raghead... but they were fags... but it was a Raghead... but they were fags... Hopefully their heads will explode. :(

The haters are thinking the non-haters are in a tizzy! I read this on a comments section:

"They love LGBTs and Islam, this truly a PC dilemma"

Seems like hate will win the day either way. Hate the gun, hate the gunman, hate the religion, hate the West, hate the East, hate the desert, hate all religion, hate the humans.

The solution is simple, Griff.

Don't let hate rule the day. You only hear bad news. And there's more than bad news out there. There's tons of good news. But good news doesn't sell papers or airtime.

We shouldn't let the bastards wear us down.

amen

Now Orlando will have to pass a city ordinance requiring bouncers to have counterterrorist training.

This had nothing to do with religion,” the gunman’s father said. However, he also claimed his son got very angry when he saw two men kissing in downtown Miami recently.

Act of terror and a hate crime rolled into one. Not that there is much difference to the victims.

The real frustration in these horrible events is that you know there's virtually zero you can do about it after the fact, and probably precious little you could have done before it. The shooter is dead. The people he committed this atrocity in the name of are amorphous, international, and to the extent you can identify them, distant and fungible. Kill one ISIS social media recruiter and two more mindless zealots take his place.

That's why the time for people to do something about it is as it's happening; but, the indications are that all they would do was run.

I don't want to get into semantics, but
isn't terrorism a hate crime, hate motivated?

Unarmed, untrained, unprepared, best to GTFO.

If you're not already concealed; or, behind cover when the shit goes down, it's best to close and destroy. If you have no route of egress, it's best to attack before discovered. You can't outrun the bullets. Just because you're shot doesn't mean you're going to die. Just because you're going to die doesn't mean you can't take the attacker out with you and save others. Where there's no such mindset, casualties are maximized. When that happens I feel it's a shame; but, I don't dwell on it.

"... take the attacker out with you..." I don't think a stern look, with crossed arms and a tapping toe would be an effective deterrent. There's a difference between making a sacrifice and being a damn fool. There's no way I can stop this guy, so making a banzai charge just makes his job easier. YMMV. :o

You bet your bippy it does. That's because I hang out with people of another mindset, people who can act in consonance.

But, if all of you, or ten of you, or even five of you charge him yelling "Banzai!!!".......

Exactly, you're trained, you hang with trained people. When you look at a problem, you have a completely different set of tools in your bag you can use for a solution. Most people don't have those tools so they have a shorter list of reasonable options. I know my limitations, and they're not mental, they're physical.

Click here to see what Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks had to say about this tragedy.

I'm waiting for someone to try to tie George Zimmerman into this.

Uygur has a good understanding of the problem, unfortunately he, like everyone else, has no solution.

But make no mistake, let's be absolutely clear about one thing:

When tragedy hits, Americans stand divided.

it's a WaPo editorial headline... but I for one agree

No solution, but here's a step towards one: let's study the problem.

One side says the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Another side says the fewer guns there are around, the less guns get used in crimes of opportunity.

We're stuck in a monotonous argument because neither side can reference an authority that the other side acknowledges.

Let's allow federal money to go to researchers looking at gun violence. Let's start keeping track, on a national level, of gun-related deaths. Let's look at all the possible causes, and all the possible solutions, and fucking do something.

If it turns out that the best way to reduce gun deaths is to require everyone to carry a gun all the time, then, fine. I'm down with that. But convince me with something other than stories that pick at my own fear and insecurity.

Step #1, right? Admit you have a problem?

:eyebrow:

Here's one, it two seconds of Googling. Less, actually.

People argue over cause/solution, but I think Cenk Uygur(post #17) nailed it with cultural problem. Of course that’s sort of an umbrella over the reasons being argued, but also includes the arguing itself.
Later I read on Cracked(biased but thought worthy), about Reagan.

Beyond an opportunity to bash Reagan, which I admit gives me pleasure, it bolsters my own opinion…
Every mass shooter is nuts or they wouldn’t be one. I order to prompt their inner shooter to act, they convince it they have a cause justifying action. Also, they must use a cause currently in vogue, like Islam or LGBT, to persuade the world they are heroes and not just nuts.

That said, the only solution I see is everyone participate in rational discussion of solutions. I give that odds of slim to none. :(

Yep, I'd rather watch Cenk, Ana, and the rest of the Turks than the mainstream news.

Did anyone happen to see Cenk's interview with Bernie Sanders?

No, didn't see it. But remember watching only Turks gives you only one perspective.

Semantically, it is politically motivated; an attempt to make the populace so afraid that they pressure the politicians to give in to the terrorists' demands (or to intimidate another political group and prevent them from making successful demands on the politicians).

But when the political motive is just "stop being different or allowing others to be different from us", it's both.

Which Cenk's has admitted. Still, they're better than the corporate media.

Anyway, Here is the full 43 minute interview if you wish to see it.

Point taken, grav, but it's kind of piecemeal and based mostly on media reports.

From their methodologies page:

I think the data collection could be more efficient, less roundabout. But it's really about the research. We put a couple dudes on the moon. We built a civilization where you can download porn to a personal device just about anywhere, any time, that you want. Even in the woods. But this is fundamentally unsolvable? The best problem-solving resources that we can bring to bear is a mashup of talking heads on TV and pseduoanonymous online comments?

Give an adult who is a child a big gun. What will he do? Act just like a child. We know from his wife that this 'child' was even having temper tantrums. Some call it metal illness. Maybe. But he did exactly what any adult who is a child may do.

Because he was so successful, stock price of gun manufacturers increased 8% and 6%. Stock market knows adults who are children (and they are in large numbers) must duplicate what the other bully did.

We know everyone needs a military assault weapon that only has one purpose - to attack and kill as many as fast as possible. It does not even have a defensive purpose. It cannot be used even in hunting. It cannot even be used on many (if not most) ranges because bullets are too big, too fast, and too powerful. But an adult who is a child knows a bigger gun and bigger penis means he is man. Adult who is a child.

Same people are in such great numbers as to also be inspired by the hate promoted by Trump. Number of adults who are still children is quite large. They cannot be trusted to drive a car without a license and training. But should have every right at any time to have assault weapons and howitzers - even without any training. Otherwise those children might have another temper tantrum.

Here's the thing. Much like Trump opponents, the arguments against are orthogonal to the arguments for.

The opposite side of "Guns kill people" is NOT "No, they don't." Instead, it's "Yes, but the minute we give them up the government will become a dictatorship." Now, you can say that argument is stupid (and it is,) but the way to convince the big Second Amendment folks is not to keep pointing out how senselessly dangerous guns are. That's a necessary evil in their minds. The trick is to convince them that their little AR-15 is NOT the deciding factor in whether Hitler, Jr. takes over America.

Mine is, because it's a rare 7.62 x 39, not some puny .223 round like the Army guys. I know because I've got a lot of Army guys, Mom's always telling me to pick up and put in the box, before Pop steps on one with his bare feet. I'll save 'Merica from that Nazi nogoodnik. :lol2:

I must be a child because tw and Robocop are the only adults in the whole country.

Clearly you are not a child. Look at the size of your penis. Amazing what .223 and and 7.62 mm rounds can do to upgrade a child into a man. Since only a man can put quarter inch holes in other people.

Clearly you are safer because your penis and holes are bigger. Size matters.

Real men have brains - and use them.

Ok, which would better?

To have a big penis with a little hole, or a small penis with a really big hole?

How'd we get to penis holes again?

There are a few more vidz RE: this tragedy on the TYT channel if anyone would like to view them.

Depends on your fluid intake.
That's not so important as your lead intake.
Some real men using their brains in Orlando somehow forgot that.
Guess they weren't worried about a government dictatorship.
Guess they weren't worried about lead from other sources.
Ignorance is bliss, sometimes permanently.

Extremists know their followers must be told how to think. There followers will only believe the first thing told. So Trump and Bill O'Reilly immediately blame immigrants or Isis for a massacre in Orlando.

No facts say that. That adult who was a child had a long history of alliance with all kinds of wacko extremist mentalities. But that is irrelevant to extremists such as Ann Coulter. They must be the first to connect a "Them verses Us" rationalization. Since the brainwashed only know and remember the first thing they are told.

Where is this Isis or illegal immigrant connection. Ann Coulter is even claiming gangs have taken over our city streets. So how many still listen to these wacko extremists? What day are they now saying the world will end?

This is a nice story.

It'll be interesting to see if/how it changes his political fortunes in Utah.

Apparently the shooter was himself, gay? Ana, Sam, and Kenny break it down here.

In My Thoughts and Prayers

Wait a minute, LGBTQ? That's new to me. I can't keep up. :facepalm:

"If" presenting a condition, and "cannot be denied" entirely unconditional. In the very same sentence. Why would one write a shitty sentence like that? Here's why,

While at the same time we MUST PLAINLY admit that on day one, we don't understand this event, because on its face it is pretty much incomprehensible,

And it came from a psychology that we don't understand and a culture we are only partly familiar with,

It is important for us to believe we DO understand, because our brains need a narrative for it. All things need explanation.

And in 2016 the narrative is political. So,

~ This is where we are now ~ if we don't understand, at least we can have opinions which nobody can safely disagree with; and we can blame others, which comforts us and makes us feel superior.

To me, it is an offensive reaction to the event. People are dead and you want to make a point. But fine, it's 2016, have fun being all political.

Q=Queer
A bit of a catch-all (which isn't to say that it will prevent future letters from being added).

It's common to phrase "given X, Y" as an "if, as we know, X, then Y".

Madness is incomprehensible, almost by definition, so to the extent that mental illness played a part, it's incomprehensible.

But the claim that gays are evil and dangerous, and are destroying our society, is not some foreign culture issue. The idea that gays deserve death is not some outside thing. There are plenty of Americans, even ones without immigrant parents, who grew up in that environment.

I agree that it ought not be a political issue, but that's only possible when a large majority of politicians agree. It wasn't an issue when they all agreed to condemn gays, and now it is. It will remain a political issue until consensus is again formed, hopefully in the other direction.

This reads to me as "don't talk about issues when they're most relevant." It's precisely what the poem is about; during the immediate aftermath this tragedy, the politicians want to offer empty thoughts and prayers, and once it blows over, go back to claiming that gays are a threat to civilization.

Back in the day, before LG or LGB or LGBT, Q covered it all. I'd read some were pushing to revive Q and wondered if it was an attempt to promote unity and discourage infighting. Didn't know it had been tacked onto the banner though. I figured Q was as clear as mud, but it covers the ground, without requiring anyone to reveal personal preferences. But I was told it generalized, grouped people together that didn't want to be, so I guess it's a double edged sword. :confused:

I really don't want to be an asshole but when people like Libby barge in and tell me what I must do and must say, they can just fuck right off.

Sure would be nice if nobody felt the need to hang their identity on a letter, and move that letter to just a footnote.
Instead of being a Whitewall Car, just a Car that happens to have whitewalls.

Is the motive bigotry?

Of course.

And sure, one can always have a purely logical "only the Shadow knows what lurks in the hearts of men" argument, or quibble with the wording, that "the motive" implies "the only motive" and there were surely other contributing factors, but that doesn't negate the bigotry, it only affects its flavor.

So you figure he wasn't personally gay.

I'm not sure the shooter himself knows knew if he was gay or not.

No, I think there's a reasonable chance he was, which would cause the bigotry to fuel self-hatred and misplaced anger.

Why We Should Politicize the Orlando Massacre

Here the Q is usually taken to mean Questioning

LGBTQ?

minimum 17 points with no blank tiles.

QTIP?

LGBTQTIPDQ?

Straight. Not straight.

That is really how I define sexuality in my own mind simply because there are a lot of straight people with weird (to me) ideas about their sexuality, and there are a lot of not straight people with weird (to me) ideas about their sexuality.

Maybe it should just be sexual or not sexual?

I know I'm totally un PC by saying this, but really, can't people just be who they are without having to be defined by a letter or word?

Anyway, this piece of shit from Orlando was nothing but a biggotted shithole who should never have had access to that kind of weapon. The sooner you lot sort your shit out the better for all of you.

Or just hurry up and kill yourselves off so the Aussies can run the world instead, but with better leaders. Maybe like me.

Oh, we have a redneck idiot running for a seat in the Senate this coming federal election. Her name is Pauline Hanson. Her and Trump would get along famously. She's almost as dumb as he is.

An idiot politician!? Say it ain't so!

You Aussies can have the planet, running the world turns out to be harder than we were told.

Is she dumb? Or is she so smart as to easily recruit the dumb?