The reformation is at hand
 

http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/bl...s-shut-down-th

Black Lives Matter protests an ACLU event, shutting it down.

"Liberalism is white supremacy" was one of their slogans... ugh

A few months ago, BLM Philly banned white people from one of its meetings.

The students at Bryn Mawr, on finding that the college's early feminist founder was also anti-semitic, began working to erase her memory from the school.

People can't seem to see it, but identity politics is appalling, and a guaranteed loser. It's going to eat itself every time. This table can stand with four legs, it may even stand with three, but you keep cutting off legs and pretty soon it won't stand. Everyone's identity can be at odds with everyone else's.

People have always evaluated others, judged them to decide if they are friend or foe. When we got advanced enough it was deciding you wanted them for a friend by adding up their pluses and minuses. Likes the same music, food, sports, hobbies, etc, or not. When you pare that down to a single issue your circle of friends is going to get smaller and boring.

Face it, people suck... but always remember you are people.

:facepalm:
Not good.

I don't know if it's fair to tar and feather the entire BLM movement though. These were just some dumb college kids in one school.

You're right, one group, like soldiers they depend on the leadership to take them in the right direction.

Watched the video of it and this was a pretty small event.

The bigger problem is that the dumb college kids are on every campus. In high profile events they shut down major conservative speakers, some of whom needed shutting down anyway...

But this is where the snake can turn on itself. If there are no righty speakers, the bigger movement is still angry and still looking for targets.

Sometimes they look with baseball bats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ev...#2017_protests

I'm not saying identity politics is the right way out of anything. But there's only so long you can tell people, "work within this system," when the system repeatedly and brutally fucks them over. As far as they're concerned, the table falling over wouldn't be any worse for them than it already is now. If people really wanted to take the wind out of the sails of BLM, all they'd have to do is convict the next three cops. But that won't happen without, as you say, a major reformation. Identity politics is a gross, ugly way of getting somewhere when all the other methods have been proven meaningless.

This. America: It's never the right time, or the right way to deal with the problem. The preferred plan is: we're never going to deal with the problem. Or talk about it. Ever. Because the status quo is working well enough for enough people. That's why it's really important for the people who are not being served well by the system to keep quiet. This is priority number one.

Protests are designed to RAISE A RUCKUS until people acknowledge that the problem exists. They're not designed as a solution. They're not a peaceful summit of equally-powered groups.



Example: when your cat is hungry he tries to trip you, because that's all he can do. Maybe he shits on your pillow. Eventually you ask what his problem is, enough times until you figure it out. Then you feed the cat, and golly gee he acts normal again. It takes a minimal effort to work through this process.



Does everyone know why BLM exists, or are some of us pretending it's a huge mystery?

But the ACLU is fighting for civil liberties and BLM is fighting for civil liberties, so attacking one another when they should be attacking the actual oppressors is foolish.

It's like one cat fighting another cat in your hungry cat example.

Yet if we just fixed the problem, there wouldn't be a reason for either one of them to be doing anything.

Everything that everybody is doing is caused by the fact that the problem exists. If they're doing effective things, or counter-productive things, or whatever, I guarantee you they're doing whatever they think is the best option for them, give a situation where they are powerless to effect actual change to the underlying problem.

It's more like your cat fighting a second cat who keeps insisting that if they both just meow loudly enough, surely this time the human will listen.

The ACLU says everyone gets to talk. This is, ideally, true. But the BLM folks are saying that in reality, they don't get to talk, and also they get murdered for no reason on a regular basis. So they're going to prevent anyone from talking until everyone actually gets to talk like they're supposed to. And yeah, "two wrongs don't make a right," and all that--like I said, it's a gross, ugly way of getting your point across. But historically, it is also the only way that has ever actually worked.

Of course, it's to take away the rights and privileges God has bestowed on the white Christians who discovered this land and built this great nation from sea to shining sea.

We know what the problem is, it's those noisy protesters. If they went away we'd have peace and tranquility like back when this nation was great, and them uppity Negros and Wetbacks knew their place.


:haha:

When people abroad who are being oppressed apply for asylum here, if we find out that they have previously oppressed others they are not granted asylum.

When people here who are not being heard pursue having a voice here, if we find out that they have previously silenced others, they are not likely to be given a voice.

Sounds likes Syria.

In theory. But history shows that this is, in fact, the only way they are given a voice. You tell your kid violence isn't the answer, that it's better to turn the other cheek, that if he stoops to their level he's as bad as they are--but we all know that the bullying only stops when he finally punches back.

The very fact that you think you get to decide whether to give them a voice is precisely why they are now taking it by force. They are not outsiders seeking your benevolence. They are Americans whose ancestors have quite possibly been here longer than yours.

off topic point of order: it will definitely stand with three unless they are in a straight line, or the table is extremely top heavy and they are all towards one side.... And it won't wobble. You need three points to define a plane. If you introduce a 4th leg, chances are it won't be exactly on the same plane, and so the table will have a wobble. This is true for any piece of furniture, pot, ornament.... that you (create and) wish to stand on a flat surface. Of course, chances of that surface being truly flat are minimal.....

#ceramics1017878

Point of privilege, "they" in this case are mostly white kids going to William and Mary. Their video is here:

https://www.facebook.com/builtonourb...4551936840965/

Bwahahahaha! ACLU = White Supremacist! What a bunch of clueless assholes.

♫Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book,
Don't know much about the french I took
But I do know what peers told me
So I’m an expert on ACLU

I've worked both insurgency and counter insurgency operations in the real world which included psychological operations and civil affairs. If they try to make people listen by force, they will be defeated. They may win some battles; but, they will lose the war (figurative speaking). That goes for anyone who believes the end justifies the means regardless of who they are.

(i.e. If you're being bullied, you don't get to start bullying others until they help you defeat YOUR bully on the premise that either no one gets bullied or everyone gets bullied. Not unless you want everyone else to get together and knock the dog shit out of you.)

You don't believe bullying has a pecking order with people? I've definitely seen it with animals.

When amateurs decide they're going to work outside the system to force people to do something, they'll be going up against people who work outside the system professionally to redirect them.

The clue is always not who it affects but who profits from it.

I keep getting letters from the ACLU asking me to renew my membership. Maybe it's time.

Obtuse. You are aware she is referring to the BLM movement at large, not the cherry-picked sample you're flaunting because it engaged your confirmation bias. Let's agree to be more responsible and not disingenuously try to smear broad groups of people with inflammatory misrepresentations.

:thankyou:

Please put me back on ignore

Nah

I do love that feature.

Okay then

I'm not sure how pointing out that the BLM movement is not made up of black people (BLM Philly aside) is smearing the movement.

In any case, the thread is larger than BLM. The Evergreen College incident didn't include BLM, just a race question amped up to 11. The students at Bryn Mawr turned on their feminist founder on creed, not race. The larger issue is about identity politics and its divisiveness, and its rejection of the liberal notion of the open consideration of ideas. And without bias I can consider it really interesting -- and annoying, really -- that this particular group decided to include "Liberalism is white supremacy" as one of their chants.

Ugh. Clodfobble was referring to the intended recipients of the goal of BLM, i.e. the people being mistreated which necessitate the creation of BLM. Why it exists. I thought that was clear in the series of every post she's made in this thread. I get that your point was this other thing, but thread drift exists and sometimes people aren't talking about the OP.

My reading is that she is NOT talking about the white college kids you're mad at.

My reading is that your response was obtuse. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

She made the error reading the BLM movement as universally black, and I have made the error of trying to correct this by referring back to this particular protest, which only proves that BLM William & Mary is mostly white.

I think what gets lost in discussing the logistics of protest movements is the actual purpose of the movement--why it exists. BLM doesn't exist to benefit white college kids, and it is incidental to the existence of the movement that it peripherally gratifies the desire of some white college kids to virtue signal, whether that desire is earnest, or misguided, or anything in between. I don't think anybody was stating that BLM is exclusively black. Rather, the purpose of BLM is to call attention to the plight of black Americans.

I have made the error of posting an out-of-scope criticism which referenced your thread topic, when my intent was to point out that your thread topic wasn't even in play. I acknowledge your tenacity in trying to corral the thread back in that direction, I just thought it was a s t r e t c h



:::puts, like, a thousand words in clodfobble's mouth::: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is true, however to people who witness this incident either in person or the video, are more than likely to dismiss the whole BLM. Lets face it, for most of the public this not the age of deep thinking and checking issues, it's the age of sound bites, headlines, and slogans. Those are what motivate most people today and disruptions of the status quo, regardless of how valid the cause, make people uncomfortable. That's a good way to get noticed but not a good way to win hearts and minds.

I don't doubt any of what you're saying, I just think it's the height of gross, white behavior.

Victims of injustice are now faced with the challenge of calling attention to the injustice they face, to an audience who doesn't know about and/or believe it, and in addition, to call attention to it in such a way that it doesn't disrupt the delicate sensibilities of a group of people who aren't affected by it and don't really care, and for whom merely mentioning it is an insult they will react aggressively to.

What form of protest is acceptable to call attention to a problem that people don't want you to talk about in the first place?

It's a joke. The whole thing is rigged.

There is no acceptable form of protest, so berating people for not jumping through the right hoops is literally disgusting.

I know it's catch 22, but I would say repeated non confrontational mass assembly/marches to get the media talking about the whys and wherefores. After that pipe dream I got nothing. There's always a handful both fer it and agin it who will desire violent confrontation, that's what the media will show, that's what Common Mantm will feel represents what they suspected of the movement... or it's fake news. It's easier that way because thinking is haaaarrrd.

I'm first to admit it sucks, and I don't have a clue how to fix it. Maybe when Trump makes America great again by rolling the clock back to the 50s, we can start over to fix shit before it gets to this point.:rolleyes:

I wonder if it's more of a black people are threatening thing? One of my coworkers got arrested last week in DC at an ADAPT protest. They don't get much press, but they don't get raked for it either.

You're right, the ADAPT people are handicapped so no matter what they do we will still be able to judge them as inferior and feel superior. Now blacks getting all uppity and saying they're not inferior is a real threat, so we must keep them in their place.

(The thread can well go where people like s'all good)

Unfortunately, I'm not sure "repeated non-confrontational" is a good recipe to get the media even talking about the "whats". And nobody knows how to get it talking about "whys and wherefores".

You're probably right, without a few window breakers, fire starters, and rock throwers it might not make the news. :(

I just saw this and thought it fit.

The media doesn't report on non-violent protests, which leaves authorities free to kettle protestors, bystanders, and independent journalists alike, make mass arrests and brutalize everyone in sight with impunity. Fun Fact: these are the same Police they were protesting against in the first place.

Well thank you, that's mighty white of you; so, we'll boldly go where no dwellar has gone before.

People need to make themselves invaluable, indispensable, in some way vital to others. When I served in the US Special Forces, there were no black people. There were no brown, yellow; or, red people. But then, there were no white people either. Everyone there was the same color ... olive drab. Everyone was dependent on each other's capabilities and contributions to the team effort for their continued existence; so, they regarded each other as the same. This was actually taught in the qualification course and practiced in the units. It better prepared them for their roles as fighters/teachers in training foreign indigenous personnel.

There needs to be grassroots efforts in communities, by people who want to be treated the same, to make themselves vital to others. How that's achieved may vary from place to place; but, once it's accomplished and they've in some way become indispensable, the old adage When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. becomes a reality.

If you want to provide meaningful assistance to BLM (or other such movement), look for ways in which they can make themselves invaluable if you really want them to attain parity. With parity comes respect. They have rights; but, rights without respect are fleeting. Keep in mind that where most people are coming from respect, like trust, is earned, not demanded. If you try to demand it, you'll fall by the wayside.

ETA: If you can't do this, learn to cut your losses.

So we need a tight well trained unit of 320 million people. Of course they would be suspicious of, and feel superior to, immigrants and foreign H-2B workers.:lol:

I suspect anyone becoming indispensable to a community might earn respect as long as they weren't making a profit from it, and a big profit would have the opposite effect. A pot dealer for example, indispensable but resented if he/she starts living flashy.
On the other hand, service workers like janitors, waitstaff, maids, even bartenders are indispensable to the community, but don't get much respect no matter what color.

Congratulations, I see you've learned to cut your losses.

I didn't cut anyone, Sir, I only use a gun, I swear. :yesnod:

We're letting you go 'cause you're only shooting blanks.

Saturday I got a "final Notice"(again), to re-up my ACLU membership. I'm in.