Mouse setup
 

This question is actually directed at dave but I figured other people could answer/benefit from it.

What do you use for mousing in your gaming setup?

I have a Logitech MX500 optical, which is a great mouse in itself. But I'm wondering how to get a smoother mouse feel.

I do have a set of "mouse skates", which is basically some sort of ultra-smooth tape you can put on your mouse's feet to make them move more smoothly. But my mouse surface has just enough texture that eventually the tape gets scratched and then there's as much friction as there was before.

My mouse surface is attached to my keyboard tray so it would be hard to change it out. I spose I could get a surface that I could glue to it...

Well, I have a pair of fUnc 1030 pads that I use on my main computers. Actually, one of them is currently with the cleaning people since the fire, but I saved one. It's got a super-smooth side which, to me, is too smooth (I like a bit of friction) as well as a not-as-smooth side, which is the one I use. So it's cool that you can swap it and find which one suits you best. If you're looking to have your mouse glide effortlessly across the mousepad, the smooth one is pretty good.

You might be interested in a RatPad, which is basically a huge, smooth mousing surface. There are also the Everglide pads, some of which are supposed to be as smooth as glass. Like I said, I find the fUnc pad to be great (plus, you could cut it, whereas the others are really too thick to cut), and you can buy it at NewEgg. It's about $20 and has a mouse cord clip to keep the cord from getting snagged. I don't use a keyboard tray, so the thing is really ideal for me.

Check out a picture at

http://www.msdelta.net/~dave/images/p4box/P0001537.jpg

The only other suggestion I can give is to keep the feet on the mouse clean. I use the MS Optical Mouse Blue, which seems to do a great job of not collecting gunk - I clean it maybe once every three or four months, and only then because I happen to flip it over and see a tiny buildup.

To recap, it sounds like your surface sucks, and that can make a <b>huge</b> difference in the whole mousing experience. Put something new over it or adjust to having your mouse up on the desk. And I highly recommend the fUnc pad for its dual surfaces, heavy rubber bottom (to prevent slipping) and mouse cord clip, which keeps the cord from getting snagged and throwing off my rail.

Personally, I switched to a trackball years ago, and never looked back. I have to use a mouse at work, and I feel handicapped by it. Trackballs are awesome for graphics stuff and for gaming. As long as you have the mouse speed at a reasonable level, trackballs allow very quiick, accurate movements, which is very useful for any kind of gaming. I've seen some people use trackballs with low mouse speed, which sucks... you should be able to get the cursor anywhere on the screen without lifting your hand.

I used Kensington trackballs for a few years, and I liked their trackballs when new, but they had poor durability... I went through two trackballs in three years. One thing I didn't care for was the button positioning, it was always awkward to right-click for me. My last Kensington was an Expert Mouse Pro, and it had mediocre response, the extra buttons weren't all that customizable, and the scroll wheel was not in an easy-to-reach place.

My current trackball is the Microsoft Trackball Explorer, which is great once you get used to thumbing for the right-click. I've had it almost a year, and I'd have to say it's the best trackball I've used.

The thing I keep meaning to get is a graphics tablet... no good for gaming obviously, but I'll bet they're awesome for graphics once you get used to it.

Well, I think gaming is an issue for The Tone, and, no offense, but I'll spank you every day at a first person shooter with a mouse. So they're not great for <b>every</b> type of game. Tropico, I bet it's swell. But I've played people that use trackballs at Quake and Quake 3 and they just can't compete.

(Incidentally, this is because their vertical movement sucks. Think about the Trackball Optical, which uses a thumb ball instead of one of the awkward finger ones. Okay, so you can move side to side easily when holding it - this is how the thumb is joined. But try moving it up or down fast with any type of precision and you're in for trouble.)

Trackballs are pretty great for regular mousing, and I do indeed like them for this (though I don't currently own any). But gaming... it's really just no competition.

That's the thing, see, this combination is 90% of the way there -- I'm just trying to solve the last 10%, which I think I do have to solve for gaming.

For everyday mousing, this surface is OK. I bought one of those Everquest mouse pads for the wife, and my surface is not far off that. It's applied rather than molded, it's plastic-like.

In desktop usage, most mousing is large movements to hit medium-sized targets. In first-person-shooter gaming, there are both large movements to hit large targets (move the mouse an inch to turn and run down that hall) and tiny movements to hit tiny targets (I'm going to snipe and have to move the mouse 1 mm to hit two different things in a split-second).

For me it's the tiny targets that become a problem. If the friction is just high enough, you have to push the mouse harder to get it moving... then you lose precision.

D, how do you set the mouse sensitivity? Is it better to go for a low sensitivity and learn to move the mouse a greater distance, so you get more precision on small movements? Or for high sensitivity so the mouse picks up every twitch?

Well, I think the trackball's setup is crucial in gaming, and that can be the difference between making the trackball an advantage or a hinderance. When I play LAN games, which as little as six months ago was 2-3 times a week, I kicked everybody's ass, every time. And these are veteran gamers... the only player who could keep up sometimes was my half-cousin, and he was the only other player using a trackball. That's all first-person shooters, I haven't played a Stategy/RPG/watever since I last played StarCraft about two years ago.

Set up correctly, a Trackball is responsive enough to execute movements as dramatic as 180* turns with just a twitch, but sensitive enough to snipe quickly and accurately when needed. Granted, you have to have steady hands to use one well. It's also nice to never hit the edge of a mousepad and have to life the mouse up and reposition it.

I've found that the trick with the MS TrackBall Explorer is to have vertical mouse speed set higher than horizontal, and invert the Y axis.

Of course, some people just don't like the way trackballs feel and react, so naturally they will do poorly with them. It's just a preference thing, mostly.

Well, The Tone, the only thing I play really is Quake 3. As I told you, I got Ghost Recon, but since I got back online I have been busy with competition (and various house things). So, the only weapon I really need that type of precision with is the railgun. I have set up scripts (Q3 really is a wonderful game in this regard) so that when I switch to the railgun, my sensitivity drops to 1/4 what it normally is. So for running and other weapons that don't require the precision of a railgun, it's quick, but with the rail, I move slower. And that's really where the precision is. I'm not sure if you can do that in Ghost Recon. But it's definitely helped my rail quite a bit. You simply have more time that you're moving over a target, and that gives you a bigger window to fire in. If you have cat-like reflexes, a higher sensitivity might be better. But for us mere mortals...

hp - Yes, well, again, no offense to anyone, but those are casual FPSers. If you like Q3 and wanna take a crack at me, hop on irc.enterthegame.com and we'll find a server. :)

Such calm, misplaced confidence ;). If I liked Q3, I'd probably hit you up for a game when I have free time again (which happens to be mid-October). But I'm more of a Medal of Honor/Soldier of Fortune 2/Unreal Tournament kind of guy. I tried Q3 and thought it lacked in every department except visually... I need more of a balance between chaos and strategy... But, to each his own.

Incidentally, I have played a lot with both a mouse and a trackball, and regardless of whether you are a better player than I, I know that I am better with a trackball... hence my insistence that it is not that trackballs suck, just that it is a preference.

Later.

GR doesn't have that kind of scripting support. The interesting thing it does for you is to lower the sensitivity as you look through a weapon scope. So if you're just walking around, a mouse movement will turn your character 90 degrees; if looking through a 5x scope, the same movement only turns your character like 5 degrees, enough to move the target across the screen in your scope.

It does mean that to immediately turn around, you have to reduce back to non-scope view, then turn.

Heh. I just gotta mention that I had a fabulous Ghost Recon game yesterday. We were using rifles in an urban setting, and playing defense on a "siege" game, about 8 on 8. In seige, you control a base and if any of your opponent team gets to the base point and stays there 5 seconds alive, you lose. I took a silenced weapon and went the back route and snuck up behind the ememy's choke point. Systematically killed their entire team before they realized what was happening. They couldn't tell they were getting shot from behind. They didn't expect it in a siege because they were so focused on offense, moving forward. I love it when a plan comes together.

Well, here's the thing, I guess. I've met a lot of people that swear by the trackball and its precision, and they seem to always chalk it up to a fluke when I stomp them into itty bitty little pieces.

Where the real debate lies now is how you could ever choose Unreal Tournament over Q3. :) It only lacks in strategy if you don't want to be good. There's actually a fair bit of smarts involved in it, especially if you play team-oriented games such as CTF (which I do). UT's weapons are seriously unbalanced and poopy like. The movement in the game sucks big butt too. Really, the only good thing about it is the level design, which is pretty fun overall. Eeeew, man. Unreal Tournament? :)

Tony - I wrote a script that does that for me too. It's a shame that GR doesn't have that kind of support, because it's so infinitely useful. Q3, still a relevant game after almost four years. Pretty amazing. :)

Well, speaking of great games, a few weeks ago I had a spectacular showing at Instagib CTF. Instagib is all rails, one shot kills you. I was playing against some of the best in the community.

http://www.msdelta.net/~dave/quake/s...2003-06-22.jpg - that's the screenshot, and I'm tops on the winning team (and tops overall). The guy you see below me, he's crazy hard to outscore - he's a machine. What was more amazing about it was how poorly I was doing the first 10 minutes until I got warmed up, at which point I added a good 140 points to my score.

(That level would probably be great with a trackball, because the upward movement required is minimal.)

Hmmm, there's this Mouse Wax... I might try that.

It's probably because you're outright better than they are when both use your tool of choice. If they switched to a mouse, you'd probably still stomp them into itty bitty little pieces, and probably even moreso since they prefer the trackball. So the trackball isn't their problem, they're just not as good as you are. If a carpenter builds a shitty house, don't blame the hammer.

Wow, deep.

But in this matter, as well as the Q3/UT question, a debate is pretty pointless. I all boils down to opinions and subjectivity. And you're entitled to your wrong opinion ;).

If by "wrong" you mean "right", then yes.

Dave, that is the cleanest computer desk I have ever seen. You are a sick, sick man. ;)

Now *this* is what a well-adjusted computer user's workstation looks like...

How about the rest of you? Wanna show off your electronic homes?

I mock you, sissy man, for having such a wimpy setup.

Here's mine before the fire:

http://www.metastudios.com/images/temp-setup.jpg

Left to right:

Belkin OmniView SOHO KVM switch, Sony GDM-F400 19" flat Trinitron monitor, Celeron 800MHz with 512MB of RAM and a 12x CD-RW drive, 1.4GHz Athlon with 512MB of RAM, Sun Ultra 5 333MHz with a 17" Sun CRT, Sony CPD-E540 21" flat Trinitron monitor connected to a dual 1.4GHz Athlon with 1.024GB of RAM, 500MHz iBook with 576MB of RAM, Sony CPD-G400 19" flat Trinitron monitor connected to a dual 800MHz Power Mac with 1.152GB of RAM. The last two PCs (the Power Mac and the dual Athlon) are connected to Klipsch 2.1 ProMedia speakers pumping 200 watts of great sounding Quake and music into my bleeding ears.

This, of course, is obsolete now, as most of the equipment was ruined and is in the process of being replaced. I present to you

http://msdelta.net/~dave/images/comp...l-displays.jpg

Which is two 20" Apple widescreen Cinema displays connected to a dual 1.42GHz Power Mac with 2GB of RAM and 240GB of hard drive space, among other things. Oh yeah, and my 1GHz PowerBook is there as well. Both of them have DVD burners. :)

MWAHAHAHAHA! I AM THE HARDWARE KING! (at least for now, anyway. :P )

Seems like a rap video for nerds.

[Comic Book Guy]
Best Rap Video EVER!
[/Comic Book Guy]

My hardware is shit, but my workstation is appropriately cluttered and disorganized, unlike yours, which is almost pathologically clean...

I do, however, salivate at the obnoxious display of hardware you have. Sigh. Pretty mean thing to show to an unemployed technology junkie. :p

Awww, you know I'm just fuckin' wit ya.

It's an addiction. I used to have sucky hardware too. Then I got a job and life was good.

I keep it organized for the most part. It can get pretty messy, but I like to have my space to do other things.

Oh, I took no offense, really...I *know* my hardware is shit, and I still admire yours.

I'll have to take a pic of mine before and after...right now, my desk looks like a cyclone hit it. I hope to do some cleanup this weekend.

No, no, no Syc! The whole point is for us to show Dave that normal people do not have such incredibly clean desks!

Now Onyx there...that's a normal person's desk area! But I do have one question - Onyx, is that some sort of bubbling brain matter perched on top of your halogen pole light or what?

Actually OC, I believe those screens are now required by the UL or whatever on all such halogen desklamps, and they're supposed to keep <I>curtains</I> away from the bulb, after many a house went up in flames.

Yeah, that too.
:rolleyes:

To follow up to the original post, so far I've found that the best solution is to remove the Mouse Skatez and just wax my mouse tray surface. This means that the heel of my hand smells like Meguiar's Step-3 Carnauba all day. Also, I have to re-wax every two days for best results. (no double-entendres please)

I think mousing and keyboarding right on the desk or with an elite pad is the right way to go. But my monitor size and desk placement won't allow that. It's gonna take a complete change in room layout to change...

So I've ordered a bottle of that Mouse Wax ($13.00) which goes directly on the mouse's feet.

Ahem.;)

That pic Bruce put up is probably what Dave's computer room will look like in 2 years.

Now *that* is someone who takes his sailplane simulation pretty damn seriously.

For what this person has invested in computer hardware, they could have purchased an actual sailplane.

I waaaannnttt one! :thumb: :thumb:

Brian the Jealous

It's even got a one armed chair, like a pilot.

Regarding the original thread topic - mouse setup - this Mouse Wax is what I've settled on now. A poor-looking site, a product that's probably way overpriced, but... it does what it says it does and I'm very pleased.

Waxing the mouse surface with automotive wax worked, but after a while it just seemed to die out, and not work as well. This stuff works better, lasts longer and there truly is no smell or residue.

UT, there's a product on the automotive market that I believe is EXACTLY the same thing. It's called Liquid Glass and although more expensive than other automotive products, it's cheaper and more readily available than Mouse Wax.

OK, I've even used Liquid Glass before and didn't make this connection.

In one of the reviews of the stuff, someone figured that it probably was some industrial product that could be had for $100 a 55 gal. drum, and that guy is just sticking it in convienent droppers and selling it for $13 an ounce. I don't care because I wish I WAS that guy, and I don't know where I can get a 55-gal drum of the stuff (much less a $20 can of Liquid Glass), much less a precision dropper perfect for landing a small drop of gunk on a mouse foot.

Now <I>that</I> is an understatement!!

I don't care what the guy is selling; I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy from a site that looked like that!