I hate you
 

"Ain't gonna waste my hate on you..."--Metallica

Hate...it's such a strong emotion. It's like the emotional version of the word "nigger"...very powerful, even if diluted. My 5th grade teacher, Miss Krus, used to always say, "Don't hate anything. Just extremely dislike it."

I used to blow that shit off...but now that I'm older and deeply in touch with my feelings, I agree with that statement. I know what hate feels like...I know how it feels to have it directed at you, and I know what it's like to direct hatred at someone. And for me, it's very draining. To be hated makes you feel weak and useless. And to hate someone or something just leaves you tired and apathetic.

I'm not saying it's bad to have feelings of hate...they are sometimes unavoidable and should not necessarily be cut off or muted. But what I am saying is that hate should be dealt with in a constructive manner--like anger.

For example, I could hate sperm donor--and have at times. But once I thought about it...what the fuck good does that do? If I had maintained that hate, it would have left me bitter and vengeful...and could have led to something I would regret later. Now, I'm at the point where I can't stand him--I haven't talked to him in almost 9 years, and could care less if I ever do again. If anything I feel sorry for him, as he doesn't deserve the right to life afforded in the Constitution.

But I don't hate him...though I have good reason to, I just don't. I mean, it just seems like a waste of time to me.

And that goes with anyone or anything. I can't stand racism, I don't like parents who don't control their children, and I'm not particularly fond of the Bush administration. But to hate any of that? Nah...though some things could be considered a "righteous hatred" (Thanks Henry Rollins!), I think there are more important things to do with life than direct hate like a .44 pistol at something/one, blowing an emotional hole in it/them.

For me, the easiest way to redirect that hatred was/is to write. People would read my lyrics in high school and be like, "Wow! You sound really angry!" And I'd be like, "Well, better to put it on paper than to blow your head off." :D

Obviously, what works well for one doesn't always work for others. But imagine if everyone who felt hatred put that into something nonviolent and creative...even if the world couldn't quite figure it out. Or maybe, that's already happening right now, and I just need to be more aware of my surroundings.

As much as humans irritate me sometimes, they are indeed fascinating sometimes.

Syc (if I may refer to you as such),

I realize I'm not the center of attention around here, but my low self-esteem often leads me to believe such commentary is directed at me. I know I act like I don't care what people think of me, but deep down I really do. I have made more than a few un-PC racial slurs in my posts. If I "extremely dislike" several people of a particular race (or belief system) who seem to be poster children for the stereotype associated w/ their group---as opposed to HATE them---am I still a 'racist'?

As I've mentioned to another fellow Cellarite, I strongly believe that I'm a product of my environment. As cop out-ish as this sounds to some, my experience has proven it to be quite a valid statement.

I like your idea of 'redirecting ones hatred into written form'. Maybe that's what I'm doing in my posts. Maybe the Cellar isn't the place to do it. I wonder if putting it down on paper would wane ones "hatred" if no one else read it? :confused: I'm thinking if no one ever sees your thoughts or views you've written down than you are basically left to ponder your thoughts alone. They may as well be kept in you head then which can lead to an even greater hatred as your mind fills w/ thoughts constantly ramming the inside of your cranium. If others are able to see your written thoughts this opens you up to criticism which is very thought provoking and usually leads to discussion and communication which I think could eventually lead to a waning of your original issues of hatred.

Does any of this make sense or am I just rambling on in effort to justify my un PC-ness and rationalize why I basically don't care for people in general (you know like Quzah who has stated "it's" hatred of everyone)? This might also explain why I have so many animals (they basically love me for who I am even if I am an asshole):biggrin:

By the way, I think they are "racists" too, they don't like Chow Chows.:p

Eh, ummm...no. It wasn't directed towards you at all. I was actually just thinking about that "design your own hell" site that I posted in my "sites of the moment" thread, and about people and things I don't like. Then I started thinking about hatred as a whole, and that's how I came up with the thread. Nothing to do with your posts whatsoever. :)

Let's look at the core definition of racism (from Merriam-Webster): "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

Based upon what you mentioned above, you could be considered racist. Racism is based on beliefs, not emotions. Although, as I mentioned in the "Life as a racist" thread, my parents were/may still be light-to-moderate racists. They're not fans of cross-burnings and people being drug to their death. So as a whole, I think racism can vary in its intensity.

The term "race" also tends to be used improperly. Depending on whom you talk to and what you believe, there are three races: caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid. So, if you don't like those "dirty spics," that's more of an ethnic issue (as Latinos can come from all three above-mentioned races).

I think that nature and nurture work together, and that it's rarely only one or the other. There are instances of complete environmental fuck-up, and bad hard-wiring from the get go. However, I think it becomes more like a Trading Places situation in the end. You could have good genes, but if you're thrown into a crappy environment, you could wind up like Winthorp (Dan Aykroyd's character) when everything in his life is snatched from him.

Now, I'm not just basing this on a 1983 movie here. My conclusions are based on all the psychological and sociological study I've done and read over the past decade...and my life experiences in general.

As far as Cellar not being the place...that depends. You'd be amazed at how peoples' thoughts and opinions will change based on what is posted. I'm a perfect example of this when it comes to gun rights. And thought and opinion are not legislated yet in this country. Posting your opinions could be theraputic and educational for you.

Having said this though, a caveat: If you are going to post opinion, make sure you qualify it. Passing opinion as fact is not cool, and will earn you a verbal smackdown from the regulars.

Not necessarily, at least for me. Just having it written down is good enough sometimes. Later on, you can reflect on it, like "man, I was really fucking pissed then."

Forgive me for not doing the fancy smancy guoting crap, but it takes forever. Everything I guote here is from Syc's posts w/in this thread.

"Life as a racist"....I've only briefly scanned that thread, haven't really read it though it's entirety. It's on my To Do List.

"The term 'race' also tends to be used improperly. Depending on whom you talk to and what you believe, there are three races: caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid."....I'm not an anthropologist, but I'll go along w/ that. As far as -oids go, I think I'd take offense to being called a "mongoloid":p Although, "caucasoid" :turd: doesn't sound that appealing either.

"...'dirty spics,' that's more of an ethnic issue (as Latinos can come from all three above-mentioned races)."....I thought "spics" were specifically Puerto Ricans, although Puerto Ricans are Latinos I guess. Shit, I thought I was following your three race theory, but I think I'm lost already. How can Latinos come from all three races? I think I get the "ethnic issue" thing though.

"I think that nature and nurture work together, and that it's rarely only one or the other. There are instances of complete environmental fuck-up, and bad hard-wiring from the get go."....I agree w/ you here too, I think I'm a prime example. I'm serious here. I'm pretty sure my hard-wiring is a little screwy, but at least I am "normal" enough to realize it and to also realize that my "nurturing" probably has just as much to do with the way I am as my "nature" does.

"...Winthorp (Dan Aykroyd's character)..."....I like Dan, but am not familiar w/ this character.

"As far as Cellar not being the place...that depends. You'd be amazed at how peoples' thoughts and opinions will change based on what is posted. I'm a perfect example of this when it comes to gun rights. And thought and opinion are not legislated yet in this country. Posting your opinions could be theraputic and educational for you."....Yea, that's what I was thinking too.

"If you are going to post opinion, make sure you qualify it. Passing opinion as fact is not cool, and will earn you a verbal smackdown from the regulars."....I'll keep this in mind, use IMO a little more often.

Thanks for rappin' w/ me Syc:) See, I can hold an intelligent conversation w/out being a hateful, racist, butt-head:p

Apparently, kids with Downs Syndrome were called "Mongoloids" at one time...that must have been before my time, and I'm not sure if this was meant to be derogatory or not.

Spic, as far as I understand, is the short form of "hispanic," and I've heard it used to describe Latinos (or those who look Latino).

Puerto Rico was originally inhabited by the Taino tribe of South America. It was "discovered" by Columbus during his second voyage in 1493 and became a colony of Spain.

The US Census Bureau defines Latinos as Hispanics or Latinos are those people who classified themselves in one of the specific Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino categories listed on the Census 2000 questionnaire -"Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano," "Puerto Rican", or "Cuban" -as well as those who indicate that they are "other Spanish/Hispanic/Latino." Persons who indicated that they are "other Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" include those whose origins are from Spain, the Spanish-speaking countries of Central or South America, the Dominican Republic or people identifying themselves generally as Spanish, Spanish-American, Hispanic, Hispano, Latino, and so on.

Latinos can be of European descent (caucasoid), African descent (negroid) or Native American descent (mongoloid). When the Spanish came to this part of the world, some of them bred with Native Americans (Mestizos). The Spanish also brought African slaves with them, and those slaves bred with the whites (Mulattos) and Native Americans. And yet some of the Spanish just kept to themselves and settled and bred in this part of the world, hence white Latinos.

From the Census Bureau: People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any race.

Trading Places is a great movie...one of my favorites.

You're right there, Syc. No matter how simple a plan or view of a situation seems to be , it's always a surprise when I try to organize my thoughts on paper. Forcing myself to think linearly and follow each thought line to it's conclusion.
If you say "I know but I just can't put it into words", thats a cop out. If you can't put it into words, you haven't thought it through. Your just swirling a bunch of emotions around in your head like brandy in a snifter.
You know that old saw about "If you're pissed at someone, write them a letter but don't mail it", will get it out of your system. That works pretty well, and if you're still pissed you can take the letter to them and stick it up their nostril.:cool:

Damn Syc... you're a wealth of information and fast too. It took me a couple of hours to make my posts, each,:( even w/out the fancy quotes.

This time I'm forgetting the quotes all together. I think you'll know what I'm refering to since we're the only ones in this convo.

I don't know about the Down Syndrome thing either. It originally was probably just a description of their facial features (looking kinda orientalish), but later on (I can only speak about my generation and that's cuz I'm part of it), being called a mongoloid is a derogatory thing. The first thing I think of is a Down Syndrome kid or a retarded kid. I know that's mean, but that's what comes to mind.

I guess I can "safely" broaden my use of the word Spic now:p . I know some "Spanish" peeps who get irate if you call them "Mexican" and I think they get pissed of you call them "Latinos" too. What's w/ that? Or are they just racist spics?

I'm getting the European descent (caucasoid), African descent (negroid) thing, but I'm still confused about the Native American descent (mongoloid) part. When I think of "mongoloid" I picture people from Asia, not Native America. Well, actually, what is Native America? For some reason I think of the U.S. as Native America.:confused: BTY, I think a Native American Indian would bitch slap you if you called them a mongoloid. Those racist Indians.

I'll check "Trading Places" out when I get a chance.

Shit Brucey Boy, er...I mean Man. You slid right in here w/out me noticing. I thought me and Syc were alone. Not that I mind you being here of course, but I guess I gotta use fancy quotes from now on:(

You shouldn't give people so much power over your own opinion of yourself. It's <i>your</i> opinion. Don't give it away so freely. :)

Some folks from the days of wayback still refer to themselves as Spanish, even if they are not of actual Spanish descent. This was done in the early part of the 20th century by many Latinos in order to make themselves "look better" in the eyes of white folk.

The use of the term "Latino" is growing from what I've seen. It's like using the term "African-American." Hispanic is considered derogatory by many because it was "imposed" as a cover-all for those of Latin American descent by the Census Bureau in the 1970s. Still others prefer to be referred to by their nationality--Mexican, Peruvian, etc.

I've recently begun using Latino more recently. For that matter, the term African-American too. *shrugs* One can't be expected to know who prefers what, so I figure as long as I'm not using "spic" or "nigger," it's cool, and/or they'll ask me to use another term.

"Native Americans" refers to those that were here before Europeans came over. Native Americans originated in Asia (along with Polynesians, Melanesians, Micronesians, Aborigines, etc.), then came to America over the Bering Strait "Ice Bridge" about 50,000 years ago. The term "Indian" was started by Columbus, as he first thought he reached the East Indies.

Man Syc...I'm learnin' a lot here. Do you know that Census Bureau shit like the back of your hand or what?

Race, ethanicity, nationality.....think you can clear up the differences here for me? I'm startin' to think it might just be easier to be un-PC and call um like I see um. I mean shit, I know they're calling me Whitie, Cracker, Gringa, etc.:rolleyes:

[quote]originally posted by sycamore
I'm a perfect example of this when it comes to gun rights. [quote]

Wowee ... I can't wait to point this one out to slang!

:)


Let me know when you're ready to hit the range, syc.

Wolf, I've mentioned that before...I believe it was when Jag was overreacting on the issue.

Luv, nah...I get the Census info straight from their website.

Let's break down race, nationality, and ethnicity...

Race: I am Native American and white (mongoloid and caucasoid)...or I could just check "other" on the Census form for shits and grins.
Nationality: I am an American/Statesman/USian
Ethnicity: Cherokee/German/French/Polish

Does it make sense now?

From another generation;
Puerto Rican = Spic
The rest = Wetback
Retarded = Mongoloid
That seems to be in question these days.
;)

Good point, Juju. It shouldn't be used as an excuse, either. :)

A little bit. Hit me w/ your general definitions of each if you don't mind. I think I have been using Nationality and Ethnicity interchangeably (sp?). From your ex. I'm getting that Nationality is where you were born. Correct?

BTY, I'm glad to see there is another Nazi-Polock in the house:p

We're not from the same generation, but those are my def.'s too:p

Are you guy's ganging up on me.....Juju & Bruce? :p

Basically...or it can be where you reside/consider home...though it can get a bit complicated in a place such as Serbia-Montenegro. Ethnicity is your overall heritage.

No, I was just offering some advice. :)

And it's a good thing that Juju doesn't get paid for giving advice. Otherwise, he'd be poorer than he already is...b/c everyone would want their money back.

I don't know what the latest scientific opinion of this is, but I knew a wise old Native American guy who asked, "How do they know which way the footprints were going?"

Pshaw!:p
Carbon dating the poop.;)

What are you, <i>against</i> self-confidence?

Not at all. My main purpose with you is to take your self-esteem, crumple it up, throw it on the ground, stomp on it with my shoe, then toss it in a trash can.

So, what does STUPID stand for?

Silly
Totally
Unintelligent
People
I
Destroy

Did you just make this up all by yourself, or did you take it from somewhere?

Just make it up? Nah, I made it up just before I posted it a few days ago.

The most recent stuff I've seen shows all human life emanating from Africa, and migrating across continents during Pangaea.

(That must have the Klan in a tizzy.)

I don't think there was a Pangea when primates started walking. Otherwise they needn't have gone via the Bering Straight.

In any case, they know the direction of migration by dating the oldest known hominid fossils in each area of the earth.

You're right, Juju. Man, I don't know what the fuck I was thinking on that Pangaea thing...maybe the dinosaurs. *shrugs*

Here's a cool little animation bit I found on the breakup of Pangaea.

neat.

Great link, Syc. Clicking the "visualizations" button in the upper left leads to all kinds of interesting stuff.:thumb:

Race Relations
 

Syc, maybe you could give me your opinion on this phenomenon.

Why is it that black's get so pissed off about the "N" word when I constantly here them using it freely amongst themselves? Ex. "What up nigga?:confused: When I was younger I remember hanging around some black people who were throwing this around left and right and in my feeble (ignorant) attempt to fit in I said it too and almost got my fat cracker ass kicked?

Well, it's stupid, but basically the reason is because white folks haven't earned the right to use that word in a respectful manner. That's what the blacks that use it seem to think, anyway.

I agree, although I wouldn't put it that way, and I wouldn't call it stupid. With younger blacks, it's like a term of empowerment, e.g. "Queer Nation." It's "their special word" for them to have among themselves...taking it back from Whitey and making it their own. With older blacks (and overall), it still holds a powerful derogatory connotation when used by a white person.

I understand where folks are coming from on that, and I'll even agree that it's overused.

Now, watch this:

Dave, you're just another dumb nigger.

If you're cool with particular people, and you know that various words won't offend, then use away. But when in doubt, don't use 'em.

Uh..shouldn't that be nigga?:confused:

Well, Dave is my nigga, but he's also a dumb nigger.

By the same token, BUGZ shouldn't let anybody but a fellow cracker call her a cracker... of course that's not the way the world works.

I thought I was going to fall out of my chair when my 70 year old father-in-law called this woman he didn't like a "poor white cracker."

I don't see how it could ever be used respectfully by anyone black or white. When the blacks use it it seems to be used jovially, but not necessarily as a term of respect. Kinda like me (cracker) saying "What up dumb ass" to Syc or Bruce (crackers too!). It is in a joking manner, but not really respectful. I see what you're trying to say though.

Yea, I see what you guys are saying, but at the same time if white people had a "special" word just for us crackers, you could be sure that we would be looked upon in a negative manner for that. Kinda like white pride. If a white person goes around saying they are proud to be white or displays this in any form, then they are looked at as a racist. I'm not talking about waving a Confederate flag around or anything, but simply expressing to others that they are proud to be white. What's up w/ that niggas?:p

I'm not <b>trying</b> to say anything. I said it. Whether or not you believe it is up to you.

This is a problem with a lot of people on here; they read what someone says, and think they mean something else. No matter how much you clarify, someone will always ruin it.

That's a fundamental problem of communication itself. :)

I think what you're trying to say is that communication while problematic is fundemental.

I don't believe that the laws of selective quoting allow you to put the period at the end, because he didn't put the period at the end of "problematic". You probably need to end with an ellipsis.

Hmmm...let's look at the Sycamore Manifestos rulebook:

The only rule: Almost anything goes, so long as it's cool with Sycamore

That settles that. :)

Hey man, I'm just trying to help. You tarnish the integrity of your post by misquoting.

problem solved
 

All right already. I see what you said, but I don't agree. Is that better? Although, I still think that what I said I thought you were saying is what you meant. I just didn't agree with your use of the term "respectful manner" because even blacks don't use the term in a "respectful" manner amongst themselves. If you had said "jovial manner", or something like that, then I would totally agree with your statement. But, since you probably don't give a rat's ass whether I agree with your statement or not, fuck it. I'm getting pretty fucking fed up with clarifying myself too these days, especially to people who obviously have thair head so far up their ass that I could attempt to clarify myself for years and it would fall on deaf (and dumb) ears. So like you say why fucking waste your breath, right?

Could I make it any more clear? <b>No, that is not what I meant. What I said is what I meant.</b> "Nigga" is a term of respect and endearment on the street. It's not at all equivalent to "What's up, dumbass?" or whatever you might think. It is not a derogatory term when used to refer to friends. It's not used in a joking manner.

Do a little reading. Google just turned this up (emphasis mine):

But yes, I'm wrong. No one uses it as a term of respect.

What I think Dave is trying to say is...

Sycamore has integrity?

Oh, wait, I get it. Just his posts.

No, you're right Dave. I see the error of my ways now. Thanks for the "clarification". I'll never question, analyze, or attempt to convert your words into what I think they mean again. Sorry for any inconvenience this has brought you. Truely, I'm sorry. Forgive me. I promise I won't ever do it again. Sorry.:p

I think thats what she means.

You sound southern there, Griffo.

Juju, more in my pinky than you could ever have or dream.