Women like that
 

I'm rereading some of our more.....emotional posts, and it occurs to me that some women are more prone to have those southern belle vapors than others. I had a friend who used to simper on a regular basis. She was the one who had to banter with all the men-- had to be friends, had to be lovers. Above all, she had to have all the attention focused on her.

I had no way to combat that. I was a thinker, and not comfortable with that banter that inevitably leads to a bedroom offer. I am still not comfortable with it.

But it seemed to me that the men...most of them, anyway, couldn't see past her chest and that "you're the only man in the world" eyelash batting to what she was really like -- an empty hole, needing to be filled every second.

Ever run across one of these women? And what's the difference between the flesh and the Cellar? Seems like LB would get more play in real life than she gets here. Or is that just me?

And....is LB really what UT claims?!??!

I dont know but I sure could go for some donuts thanks to yer sig line.

      I've been friends with chics like that. Personally I don't care to be anything other than a friend 'cause once those chics have had a dude, they don't want him anymore. Which works out well since the dude's are already looking for the next chic like that.
      Anyway, it's my belief that the blackhole effect you describe is caused by the person basing their own view of themselves on other peoples apparent view of them. They can't be desirable unless all the guys want them, they can't be smart unless everyone says so, and so on. They're actually fun to watch a lot of the time.
      The male variety is not much different, except most act tough instead of simper. They have to act tough to be secure in their masculinity. It's really fun to watch the look on their faces when they try to stare you down and you burst out laughing. Good stuff, doesn't lead to the physical confrontation you might expect either.
      As to your LB questions, as I've officially made peace I won't be involved in that part of the discussion as anything said, either way, could come across as insulting.

yeah, yer right. forget i mentioned LB by name.... her comments, and UT's subesquent comments, brought my old nemisis to mind.

      Nemesis? I thought she was your friend?

      The scariest chic I've ever met was one that had no opinions. She was asked what she wanted to drink, she said, "Oh whatever you want to get. I'll drink whatever." She was like that the whole night. I asked friends of mine that had known her for years if she'd ever expressed an opinion. Any opinion, food she likes, preference about weather, anything. After a few seconds of shaking their heads one said, "No, that's kind of weird isn't it?"
      She kind of freaked me out. It was like she was the walking antithesis to my every belief. In short, she gave me the willies.

I used to be this woman - due to a bunch of emotional abuse - but thats a whole nuther kettle of fish.

The whole "southern belle" phenomenon I have witnessed being that my family is mostly from the South. You also get it in a lot of California-type ladies. Personally- I think both are a waste of my time. I'm personally happy to sit and listen, voice my opinions when necessary and otherwise be happy with the world. And both these types of women drive me up the wall. I guess thats probably why a bunch of my friends are mostly guys.....

Funny you should mention that, Dani. As I was reading these posts I was thinking of several women I know that have, almost exclusively, male friends for that very reason.:)

I have 3 female friends now - and this is because they are so much like guys that it makes it enjoyable to hang out with them. I am a woman - and I can honestly say I hate most women.

i totally agree.... i even moved to an all-male organization for work. i'm the only woman, working for and with about 85 guys.

carrie got drunk one night and i picked her up..we drove to the beach and she was sitting on the window with her upper body out of the car (leaning on the roof) when the cops stopped us. we each got a badge on our sides of the car..but she irritated HER cop so much that i didn't even get a ticket.

her ticket, however, said "passenger riding in unauthorized space" followed by a nasty little "hanging ass out the window" note. heh. what a night..........


she wasn't always my nemisis..only when there were men around.

Being of the Southern Bell persuasion myself, let me put a few misconceptions to bed.

1. We don't simper and faint. That went out with corsets.

2. We don't pout if we don't get our way. No, we make your life living hell until we do.

3. We expect to be treated the same way you'd treat the Queen.

4. Yes, we flirt, it's because we like to, but we only do it to mess with your mind. There's nothing cuter than the expression on some poor slobs face when he finds out the women he's written off as being dumber than a box of rocks is actually a hell of a lot smarter than he is. Sorta pokes holes in the old ego. And if we deem you worthy of something more than a simple flirt, better get down on your knees and thank the Goddess we're interested because women like us don't come along every day.

Any Quetions?

Maggie M...

Yes, we flirt, it's because we like to, but we only do it to mess with your mind. There's nothing cuter than the expression on some poor slobs face when he finds out the women he's written off as being dumber than a box of rocks is actually a hell of a lot smarter than he is. Sorta pokes holes in the old ego. And if we deem you worthy of something more than a simple flirt, better get down on your knees and thank the Goddess we're interested because women like us don't come along every day.

Any Quetions?

Uh, no...I think that's perfectly clear...and proof.;)

      I believe you underestimate your numbers. I find women with these attitudes around every corner. Just don't bother to deal with them myself. I prefer the ones that can reasonably explain why they want something over the ones that "make your life living hell" just easier that way.

While I'm very appreciative of the female form, I resent like hell any attempt to get me to do something by using "feminine wiles" or just plain bare flesh. In the course of my work I have run into a couple sales reps who seem to believe that their commission income will be inversely proportional to the length of their skirts.

I hear ya... I was friends with a girl like that in college and I considered trying to go further with her. I resisted because, though ti would have been fun, I would have been one of a long line, and I decided I didn't want to be just another notch on her belt. (Or garter belt--whatever.)

Be careful what you ask for... some of us may not be as respectful of foreign royalty as you might wish! :D

The schoolhouse divisiveness of this thread annoys me.
Insecure and manipulative people are well represented by all genders, eras, ages. I would submit that if we interact with other humans, we are all capable, if not admittedly guilty, of an amazing spectrum of both obvious and creative manipulation. To some extent, you know, we're all that.

      Warch, I think that was clear already. I referenced the male version, Bruce was a flirt as usual and Steve mentioned considering using this chic for sex. All of these were covered earlier. The only ones talking purely of women like this are the women. Which is understandable in an intergroup kind of way.
      Perhaps it touched a nerve? Perhaps you've been pissed at this type of person (notice the vague, gender neutral title) quite often?

Yes, women who state a hatred of women, disturb me.

Why? Any particular reason other than what you've already stated?

      Actually, I can understand it to a certain degree. Men are so much simpler than women. Makes us a lot easier to deal with. Especialy in groups. I've seen a lot of perfectly decent women attacked and back-stabbed by other women without much, if any, provacation. As a guy I was mostly immune.
      Anyway, I don't think anyone was suggesting they actually hate all women, just the issue-laden emotionaly-confused void type. Now, they may well be blowing the problem out of proportion, but you can see droves of these women, and their male counterpart, at any club any night of the week. That's why I don't usually go to clubs.
      For the record, I get along great with women. Women usually make up a fairly large portion of my friendship base.

I'm overreacting, I give you that. But allow me my disturbed gut: I feel, in its tiny way, it adds to the rampant, global mysogyny, labeling "that kind of woman" which, to some extent, adds to the threatened basic human rights of all women and girls. Such generalizations, ironically restated by women, serve to reinforce the divisive stereotypes. Slut/Madonna; Burka-wearer/stoning-target. And it does go right down to the level of the enclosed social experiment that is Jr. High. You want to be pointing your finger in the right direction during the cat fight.
That's all.

I don't hate women...however, women have this capacity for evil that men don't seem to have. As a general rule (and I can only speak generally here...) women are capable of more manipulation, more deceptiveness, more wily, cunning and generally sneaky behavior than men.

I would like to say that, generally speaking (sneaking out of sight) that women are smarter..that's why they do this. They're also deeper.... made to be nurturers and all that... and they think on a different level. That makes them superior on some levels, but also allows them to be more manipulative.

Blah, blah. I know I'm speaking in a place where there are probably more smart men (and women) per square inch than anyplace other than MENSA, so don't bother to attack me for being sexist and wrong...assume I've heard it and apologized already. :rolleyes:

Stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason: the same behavior, from the same kind of person, over and over and over. It's like cliche: annoying, not covering EVERY situation, but built around that pillar of truth.

There are a lot of ways women are different from men, some good and some bad. Women are a lot more prone to get hurt over incredibly small things, for example. The Q3 instagib clan I'm in is headed by a girl. I emailed her and asked her if we had a match tonight. "It's been in the topic in the IRC channel for a week" was her reply. A guy wouldn't have responded like that. He would have said "Yeah, we got a match at 9." She's annoyed and upset that I didn't remember what was in the topic! Come on!

Women are totally different creatures for the most part. Occasionally you'll find exceptions. Occasionally. But for the most part...

Exactly there, dave.

Women impute a motive to men's actions then hold them responsible for it without first verifying the validity of the assumption thereby placing the responsibility for their interpretation squarely on the man's shoulders.

This phenomenon (or technique, if you will) is called "control" but, to use a sports analogy which we menfolk are fond of, its also called "keeping the defense on its heels."

What was the real motivation for this thread?

I just resent that they object when I take it to the logical conclusion by suggesting good (for me) sack time in exchange for a sale.

(edit)Oops, this was supposed to have been posted anonymously.

I dont believe that this is true. I believe this perception is taught and, in fact, feel its its a generalization that has served to justify a lot of abuse.

I don't think "this type of thinking" produces abuse. I think its little more than a pretext - just another way to transfer responsibility for the action to the victim.

Yes, what you describe is "justification" for abuse.

See how sneaky and manipulative she is?

I know this might be drifting off topic a bit, but I thought I'd take this chance to put forth one of my rants that no one ever agrees with.

It's important to remember that, when attempting to relate to someone, emphasizing your differences is not the way to go about it. You can only really relate to and identify with someone when you realize your similarities. This has obviously been done between blacks and whites in America, and it must also be done with men and women.

Despite our differences, men and women (and people in general) are mostly the same. We go through many of the same circumstances and experience many of the same emotions and thought processes. We have many of the same feelings. This is hugely more significant than social strategies.

Maybe my wife doesn't know what it's like to have to deal with male pride, but that is <i>not</i> the world. I don't know why many so people act as if it were. There are millions of other social intricacies and experiences in which men and women react exactly the same way.

It has reached the point that our focus on the differences gets more in the way of relationships than the differences themselves!


With all this said, I should reiterate that I do indeed recognize that men and women have their behavioral differences. However, if you keep repeating that mantra, then you'll never be able to relate to the opposite sex.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Damn Beestie... That makes a lot of sense, well judging by my own experiences anyway...

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This whole thread just reinforces my original theory of cross-gender relations: Men are stupid, women are insane. Interestingly the men are virtually always willing to cop to being stupid when it comes to women and the women almost always deny the insanity even when they admit all of their own actions were nutty. I don't get it, save to accept it as proof of insanity.

I assume its the whole luvbugs fiasco... folks never know what they can say without mis/over-interpretation.

Pete does better with guy friends. For her its more about guys doing the fun stuff cycling, ballgames, what not vs baby showers and various emote-a-fests. She likes that I can call one of my friends after several months and there is no explanation needed, we just pick up where we left off. Its over generalizing to say women can be more petty but cliques seem more likely to develop. Its about being herself and that is easier among guys.

This whole sex thing. You can see my frustration!;)

From Beestie:
Women impute a motive to men's actions then hold them responsible for it without first verifying the validity of the assumption thereby placing the responsibility for their interpretation squarely on the man's shoulders.

My personal observation has been, women remember every slight, real and imagined. Men usually have to really impressed (good or bad) with something to remember it.

Whit, exactly where was I flirting in this thread???

Ok - this is my point. Its not that I hate the female gender - far from it. I am very proud to be the woman that I am. I don't have to use stupid little airhead responses to shit. I am intelligent. If I don't know about something or how to do something, I have the balls to say I don't and I ask to learn. I don't think ever in my life have I ever said - I don't know how to do that (or need to know how to do that) because I'm a woman. What drives me up a wall are the women that expected to be treated differently because they don't have a penis. I'm equal to a man. Yeah - maybe I can't bench press as much as a man - but who the heck cares?

The main reason why I have a bunch of guy friends? Because a lot of women in my area are down right annoying. They want to be these fragile things that want to have jobs that are easy and want to stay home and literally not know what goes on in the world around them. I know males that are like this as well - I don't hang around them either. I find that it is easier to be around a bunch of guys that I know are not wondering "mmm bitch - where do you think you can get off wearing that color" or "I bet she's with him cause of his money" or "I bet I can steal him from her". That kinda crap is not my style and I don't have the time or the energy to deal with it.

Damn all you folks over think every thing !!!!!!!!!
I was raised by my mother , big sis , my moms best friend and her three daughters . My mom was the queen of batting her eye lashes and getting what she wanted from ANYBODY !!! I relate equaly well with men and ladys because i have figured out a simple fact . Men are like dogs , you feed us , give us some place warm to sleep , ocationaly rub our bellys , and let us run around with our friends , and we are happy puppys . Ladys are like cats , they will sweet talk you , then claw you , an NO BODY can figuer them out !!!!!!!
Just my humble opinion :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

To me, it seems like the very worst offense would be that this specific quality is referred to as "feminine" behavior. Because yes it's the difference that's defining. And usually "viva la difference" but when the difference is tactically using WEAKNESS...

zip-man, I have never heard it put that way, but as usual you cut through all the BS. I could have said that with like five paragraphs...

Having gone over the tactical use of weakness, we need a whole nother thread to talk about the tactical use of sexuality...

We bombin Bagdad with hookers now?

QUOTE
Ok - this is my point. Its not that I hate the female gender - far from it. I am very proud to be the woman that I am. I don't have to use stupid little airhead responses to shit. I am intelligent. If I don't know about something or how to do something, I have the balls to say I don't and I ask to learn. SNIP

Balls? Interesting choice of terms considering balls is universally considered male. Anyone with the nerve, guts, steel, bravery or whatever is attributed with a male trait. Latent sexism?
:)

You could argue that the best pro-democratic offensive on the middle east would be a massive invasion of educated women demanding equal power. (The hookers...they can create a tactical diversion.)

UT, you've never heard men are dogs? I've heard it a lot.:D

Pigs too.

I'm too high to look right now, but knowing you, it happened.

Several people already said this. All you did was repeat it via an analogy and add a lot of exclamation marks and capital letters to make it seem insightful. I think everyone knows what you're saying -- that's what we're talking about.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That line served no purpose other than to introduce and ingratiate you to her. In other words, flirt. Your just such a dirty old man you can't tell the difference between flirting and talking anymore. Here's how to tell, if it's something you wouldn't say to a guy in a similar circumstance, it's probably flirting. This isn't always accurate but it's pretty close.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On the subject of flirting, a friend of mine once said it's the perfect form of communication. It's easy, there's no commitment, makes people feel good and nobody gets hurt. Another imperfect, yet interesting thought. It is pretty true if things never get past flirting.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now to catch up on the rest of this thread...

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Since the cat/dog thing has come up I thought I'd post an old e-mail that circulated the web a couple of years ago.

What is a DOG?
1. Dogs spend all day sprawled on the most comfortable piece of furniture in the house.
2. They can hear a package of food opening half a block away, but don't hear you when you're in the same room.
3. They can look dumb and lovable all at the same time.
4. They growl when they are not happy.
5. When you want to play, they want to play.
6. When you want to be alone, they want to play.
7. They leave their toys everywhere.
8. They do disgusting things with their mouths and then try to give you a kiss!
9. They go right to your crotch as soon as they meet you.
CONCLUSION: They're tiny men in little fur coats.

What is a CAT?
1. Cats do what they want.
2. They rarely listen to you.
3. They're totally unpredictable.
4. When you want to play, they want to be alone.
5. When you want to be alone, they want to play.
6. They expect you to cater to their every whim.
7. They're moody.
8. They leave hair everywhere.
CONCLUSION: They're tiny women in little fur coats.

Thank you Whit. See JuJu ,, told ya so , nyah nyah :3eye:

Re: Women like that
 

Well, I have been trying to avoid this thread, but since I'm being refered to I can't avoid it any longer. Darclauz, I'm assuming from your post that you consider me to be one of those southern belle types constantly suffering from the vapors. Well, I am not. Being that I'm not all that attractive I don't spend my time bantering with men. Even if I did I wouldn't get much of a response. I'm not a bleach blond with blue eyes and big tits who tries to get what she can using her physical resources. I may bitch and complain a lot, but I don't simper and bat my eyelashes around for attention. I get about as much play in real life as I do here, which is just about nil. I agree I am emotional about things I really believe in which may not be the best way to convey an idea or my view on something, but that's how I am. I don't really see how I can ask a question about a computer and in turn be considered a "fucking attention seeking whore" as UT choses to put it, but whatever floats his boat. I am not a whore and for someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me to call me one is disturbing to say the least, but I haven't fainted yet or broke out in tears over it. I just look at it as his problem, not mine and that it is basically a childish comment made by a foolish person. I'm not getting into the whole battle of the sexes thing, because after everybody vents/rants, nothing ever really changes and I personally don't see how it relates to me and my emotionally controversial posts. I just want to make my point and move on.

Well, I have been trying to avoid this thread, but since I'm being refered to I can't avoid it any longer. Darclauz, I assuming from your post that you consider me to be one of those southern belle types constantly suffering from the vapors. Well, I am not. Being that I not all that attractive I don't spend my time bantering with men. Even if I did I wouldn't get much of a response. I not a bleach blond with blue eyes and big tits who tries to get what she can using her physical resources. I may bitch and complain a lot, but I don't simper and bat my eyelashes around for attention. I get about as much play in real life as I do here, which is just about nil. I agree I am emotional about things I really believe in which may not be the best way to convey an idea or my view on something, but that's how I am. I don't really see how I can ask a question about a computer and in turn be considered a "fucking attention seeking whore" as UT choses to put it, but whatever floats his boat. I am not a whore and for someone who doesn't know a damn thing about me to call me one is disturbing to say the least, but I haven't fainted yet or broke out in tears over it. I just look at it as his problem, not mine and that it is basically a childish comment made by a foolish person. I'm not getting into the whole battle of the sexes thing, because after everybody vents/rants, nothing ever really changes and I personally don't see how it relates to me and my emotionally controversial posts. I just want to make my point and move on.

--

Stop, stop, please for the love of fucking christ stop.

Not every thread is about you.

This thread is about the "whole battle of the sexes thing". The Cellar is all about venting and ranting about such things. That is what we do here. It doesn't matter if nothing is going to change.

The Cellar is not about you and your needs. You will not find what you're looking for here. I suggest you move on.

There are many message boards that you would find much more up your alley, many with friendlier people than us. This is the Internet, there must be a million of them.

I watched the e-changes between UT and LB, and it struck me forcibly that LB and my former friend/nemisis Carrie had a lot of similar characteristics. I wanted to see what everyone else thought.

I felt for years as though I was inferior to her, because she could banter and flirt so well...then I felt angry and embarrassed because I didn't see what she was doing. Eventually, I felt a little bit vindicated that I wasn't like her. Now, I mostly think I would like to try again to be friends, because when we had fun, we had fun.

Why? What movitivation were you looking for?

Re: Re: Women like that
 

Nah. As you may have seen in my earlier post, I was remembering an old friend, and that's who the post was about. You and UT were a jumping off point.

Speaking of jumping off.........................

down, girl.

Here's what I think. (So take it with the usual grain of salt)

This thread is first about Dar, and then about LB (again). 'Cause Dar called her on posts 1 and 2. Dar's motivation perhaps being to designate Dar's "kind of woman" from LBs "kind". (in case they might be thought by this audience to be aligned.) Unfortunately she chose to wrap LB in a twisted definition of feminine to trash her,instead her demonstrated general insecurities. That the discussion broadened, was a very good thing.

It really is about sex and flirting. (I duck and run)

I relate to the opposite sex.

(nuff said)

what the...?


most discussions on the cellar, i've noticed, start out as one comment and broaden into a discussion....neh?

sigh.













no.

Jesus Christ UT are you totally fucking stupid or what? The original post that started this thread included "Ever run across one of these women? And what's the difference between the flesh and the Cellar? Seems like LB would get more play in real life than she gets here. Or is that just me?" How in hell can you construe that as being about the battle of the sexes (which of course the thread eventually did turn into)? Darclauz directly refered to me (LB) and then went on to ask "And....is LB really what UT claims?!??!" How fucking obvious does something have to be before it dawns on you? She directly refers to the shit between me and you so I answer her and you get a fucking burr up your ass. What is your friggin problem? Warch (correct me if I'm wrong Warch) also questioned "What was the real motivation for this thread?" when she saw it turning into a battle of the sexes rant. Whit also noticed that the thread involved me when he replied "As to your LB questions, as I've officially made peace I won't be involved in that part of the discussion as anything said, either way, could come across as insulting." As well as Griff who acknowledged this in his reply to Warch, "I assume its the whole luvbugs fiasco... folks never know what they can say without mis/over-interpretation." UT, why don't you try reading for comprehension once in awhile before you go off half cocked? I was not the only person to see that the original post that started this thread was directed to me or about me at the very least. All I did was acknowledge this and submit my reply. I think you have some issues of your own going on, why don't you leave me out of them?

LB -- cut it out! for pete's sake. if ya stop talking here, you'll get a lot less abuse.

and even if you do keep talking...which is your right of course...quit it with UT. he's a long time, well respected dwellar. you earn no points by abusing him. he's never gonna love you, g-friend.... acknowledge and move on.

BTW - you certainly SOUND more put together if you can post without all the profanity. profanity is a quick replacement for creative thinking..don't hamper yourself.

So, what do you suggest I do, let him go off on me and just sit here and take it and not respond? I realize he is the creator of the Cellar and is well liked by most all here, but that doesn't give him the right to call me a "whore" and slide over the obvious when some one asks or directs a comment to me and I reply. I'm fully aware every thread is not about me, but when it is shouldn't I be able to partake in the discussion? I've tried to be civil with him and it gets me nowhere. As far as profanity, it is widely used in the Cellar and I don't see any reason to restrict myself. I don't think it inhibits my creative thinking, but when all else fails I usually resort to it.

If ya leave him alone, he'll leave you alone. He's not attacking you out of nowhere...read back & you'll see. In virtually every case, it's a response of some kind. Rise above..you can do it!!

And yes, profanity is used...but again. read back. Lots of times, it's used purely for emphasis.

I got hazed when I first got here...I think maybe it was dave? that cut me into little pieces. S'okay... just move on. I agree that it's hurtful to be called a name like that. It hurt me and I was just watching it. But yer best bet is put the stick away and quit poking UT.

darclauz was a ballbag when she got here, but now I love her! All it takes is a little time, a little understanding and a whole lot of lubrication.

(I forget why, but I wound up mostly liking her. I guess she just let her true colors shine through and I respected that. Yay for her!)

As for LB, he didn't call you a "whore". He called you an "attention whore". As in, you are constantly seeking attention. He wasn't implying that you offered sexual favors for United States currency.