Micro non-manager
 

I started a new job a couple weeks ago and things have been going pretty well. There are a few redflags I am seeing now and I'd like some input.

The short explaination is this little snag goes like this:

There is a man working on the production line with me that is not the manager or supervisor that *insists* on managing/controlling me and some other new people. Normally, I dont get upset about advice or instruction directly related to my job. I know I dont know a lot about the work and the company. There are 2 very specific things that annoy me about him though.

1) If you dont do something exactly as he directs it done, he acts as if you are "fucking with his authority" even if the reality is you are having difficulty understanding or executing his instructions.

2) His commands extend into non-work related matters. The only example I can think of at this moment was his "command" for me to sit down in the break room because I had gotten up to return back to the line before he and the other newbies. He said we had a few minutes left. I just ignored him which made him pissy.

Now, I have dealt with people in my life. I have also had jobs working with people and I have a good idea how companies work.

It's best that I get a suitable strategy for dealing with this one particular guy because I intend on working there for at least a year, until I earn my CS degree. If I dont find some constructive method I wont be able to stay. From the moment I met this guy he has rubbed me, and more than a few others, the wrong way.

The first day I started he made it a point to tell me:

* He was a Marine in Nam and he can kick anyones ass in the plant

* He has killed people in the Marine corp and he could see himself doing it again, aint no big deal

* he doesnt take shit from anyone

* He is worth over a million dollars ( and yet he has decided to work at a sink factory for 10 bucks an hour :) )

* He has a wife and a girlfriend (and he doesnt give a fuck)

* he can drink a horse under the table

* basically whatever you have done/seen/been, aint shit compared to what he did or does.

Now I will say hes a strong guy and a good worker. I also have a great respect for veterans, especially Marines. Too bad hes such a dumbass.

My personal plan is to avoid him as well as reasonably possible during lunch/breaks, ask him if there is anything he sees me doing that is wrong, explain exactly why I'm not doing any given thing precisely as he does it, and talk to the real supervisor every night, even if for just 2 minutes. The real super is very hands off and I get along with him great. I dont want to create any conflict between MarineGuy and the super.

What I am looking for are success stories with similar people or creative diplomatic solutions from your own experience.

Does he listen to my show?

I havent asked and I dont care.

Are you high again Rush? Why do you care?

No, I'm not high. Those allegations are a setup by Kofi. Who's side are you on here?

Does he like golf?

I think I remember him saying something like "Golf is for fags"

Will you FUCK off unless you're going to contribute a diplomatic solution to the post?

Anyone that thinks I've had a bad few days lately clearly hasn't seen your sad little excuse for a life. :)


Ooh Slang. Just kidding. I'll send you an EIB Drive Master Golf Pack
freebie.

I took this picture last night. While I was out snapping it, the flash attracted the attention of an old woman who came out onto her front porch and threw a frying pan at me.

Re: Micro non-manager
 

(activates the IGNORE feature on ThreadHiJackMan)

It sounds to me like you have a reasonable plan. If he is truly that abrasive, the boss knows this.

Sounds to me like he's trying to find new people that will listen to him. The old time employees have likely written him off as someone totally FOS! He needs new people to obey him.

I've known a few in my day. This character trait is not exclusive to Marines!

Yes him to death and then keep going about your business.
When he barks orders laugh, smile, act like he's kidding.
Ask the real boss if this guy is always like this, in an offhanded manner, just to see if they're aware.
Try not to embarrass him in front of others because it'll definately force a confrontation.
Form a coalition with the other newbies to ignore him.
Alternative- Call his bluff in front of everyone then take him out, assuming you don't need him for anything.
There are these "fer me or agin me" assholes everywhere, Slang. It sounds like you've got him pegged pretty well, so much depends on your bullshit tolerance. Good luck.:)

I'd pretty much stay the hell out of his way. He's very threatened by folk who don't fall under his lead.

Don't think for a minute that you will ever win a public battle with this self-proclaimed dickhead, either. He's a soldier without a battlefield just looking for an excuse...

I'd also caution you about being upfront with the other folk under his lead - they will probably rat you out. Now if they come to you, that's fine but I'd still watch your words as they might be "scouts."

Sorry but this has nuthin' but trouble for you written all over it - apply for a transfer and suck it up till you get it.

There's a chance you could beat this guy in the long run but you'd end up paying an awful lot for not a whole lot.

You know, I think I used to work with this guy. Is his name Dave Johnson? Ask him if he was ever a roofer...

People like this have zero control over their real lives, so they attempt to create situations that they can dominate. He probably does have both a wife and a girlfriend...but they cuckold the hell out of him, and make him miserable.

He probably does have a million dollars...in back tax debt and penalties.

He probably was a Marine who killed people...he ran over a bunch of school kids in a crosswalk driving a military garbage truck while intoxicated.

I think Bruce gave you good advice. Don't confront this guy. Just don't act like you are his underlilng, since you aren't.

When I meet people like this, I usually try to avoid them.

If that's not possible, I attempt to get "in" with them. This means I befriend them, find things we have in common, and try to develop a good rappor with them. This may seem a little immoral to some, befriending someone you personally dislike. Well, whatever. I've found that it's MUCH more useful to be in good with people who could harm you than to be on their bad side. They'll always treat you better.

And in the end, when you befriend them, you tend to understand why they behave the way they do. Then their behavior doesn't piss you off as much. But also, they don't give you as much shit if they like you.

      I think this is excellent advice. You'll become to complicated for him to deal with. Also, ask the why's of everything when he gives orders. You might actually learn something useful, but you'll definately bug the shit out of him 'till he leaves you alone.

If you had said Army instead of Marines, I'd swear you were working with my ex-husband.

Tell me, is he tall, thin, balding and does he chain smoke like there is no tomorrow? War stories out the ying-yang but doesn't say when or where they happened, except for generalized locations, doesn't mention unit designations or people?

Sounds like he could possibly be a 'fake vet'. There are a few web stites where you can look the info up. I'll look them up and post them under another topic.

Got to love all those millionaires who will work on an assembly line for ten bucks an hour. Bet he's so full of crap it's running out his ears.

Seriously, though, what he's doing is considered creating a hostile work enviroment. Keep a log of what he says and does, and take it up with your human resources people. Chances are there have been previous complaints. It will also help if there are other people willing to go along with you.

Maggie M...

One piece of advice- always be aware of potential cover.

I like Bruce's suggestion to ask the boss casually "is he always like this?" It'll help you learn more about where this guy is... you might get, "Oh yeah, Harry's been around a long time, he knows how everything works." Or "Oh that Harry, everybody ignores his bullshit." Or "What do you mean? Like what?"

wanna-be supervisors
 

If at all possible, I'd document each and everything that he says and does. He sounds (to me, at least), like he could "go off" on someone at anytime, and that he could easily choose you to be his target. He also sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Good idea keeping communication with the real supervisor. Maybe if this moron gets out of line, you could report him to the boss and they could handle his ass.

Good luck! :D

Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer.;)

I will hunt around and see if I can find my copy of "Since Strangling Isn't an Option." Actually saved my job. I also have a copy of "Dealing with People You Can't Stand." (I have a thing for self help books with bizarre titles like that).

The last guy I actually had a serious conflict with ended up getting fired. (he wasn't fired for the litany of policy violations, errors, and general unpleasantness that he had inflicted upon myself, my other coworkers, and our patients. It took him making some racial slur or another to get him the hell out of there.

I would say continue to do what you're supposed to be doing, where and when you're supposed to be doing it. I know you won't fall into the trap of giving him any power over you that he doesn't actually have.

Just to the job and go home ... because therein lies in important point. It's a job. Not a career. For HIM, though, it's a career.

I gotta find those books....I work with the cover models.

Slang dude i feel for ya . I am a former Marine , and have had to deal with assholes like that , hell i have cought my self acting like that a time or 2 !!!!!:p
At all jobs you will run up on some dude ( or chick , sorry ladys just trying to relate to Slang here ) that is so in secure in there own meager existance that they feel that they have to establish them selfs as ALPHADOG ( leader of the pack ) .
I have had MANY co workers who tryed this on me . I used to fire insults back at them , hell i have even tryed stepping up in there faces and saying " If you have some thing to say to me or about me you need to be a man and say it to my face BOY !!!" This has NEVER come out good . So i have come to the conclusion that I am above this kindergarten shit ( school yard bully saying "it's MY sand box ") . I am a grown ass man and can stand on my own 2 feet !!!
I agree with Wolf and Bruce and Whit , ask all the questions it takes for you to learn your job , do it as well as you can , and go home at nite .
Don't Don't Don't point out when dude comes in stinking of booze from the nite befor , or point out that he is streaching breaks out , or that he fucked up the last production run . Let HIM fall on his own face .
I had a fellow scale tech saying i didn't know what i was doing once , he got other offices in the corp involved .The NEXT day when i had to go fix the mess he had caused on a job , my service manger and another service manager from another shop were on the job . They were looking over my sholder the entire time ( big customer ) . They saw the stupid sloppy work that he had done . With in 6 months dipshit had gotten a dui in a company vech , caused a few thousand dollars worth of damage to said vech and his victom sued the DOG SHIT out of the company , and won !!
So like i said let asshole fall on his own face , if he calls you out phyicaly just smile and go about your work , if he attacks you DEFEND YOUR SELF !!!!! just look at my sig line below

wolf I will hunt around and see if I can find my copy of "Since Strangling Isn't an Option."

-- I *need* that book wolfie. I need to read it again and again and again!

Rush Limballs I'll send you an EIB Drive Master Golf Pack freebie.

-- I only golf when I'm out of ammo

ThreadHijackMan WTF?

--`Welcome to the Cellar. Very interesting name you have.

AngryWebLemming If he is truly that abrasive, the boss knows this.

-- The boss knows, trust me.

xoxoxoBruce Ask the real boss if this guy is always like this, in an offhanded manner, just to see if they're aware.

-- Very wise and savvy thoughts Bruce.

Beestie Don't think for a minute that you will ever win a public battle with this self-proclaimed dickhead, either. He's a soldier without a battlefield just looking for an excuse...

-- I know this type too well. You're right, I could never win. His entire being is invested in this act, he'd rather die than give in.

Elspode aka "Ep" He probably was a Marine who killed people...he ran over a bunch of school kids in a crosswalk driving a military garbage truck while intoxicated.

--LMAO This is normally the reality of old soldiers bragging. As much as I would like to kill some asshead bugging me sometimes, it's actually a matter of control. Anyone bragging about actually killing someone, legal or not, is truly confused as to what message he is trying to convey or image he's trying to present.My family is filled with combat vets from all of the major conflicts in the past 50 years.

What do they have to say about their war experience? *Very* little. Mostly that they did and saw things they never thought they'd have to and that they wish us kids would never experience it ourselves. Almost *zero* details.

juju And in the end, when you befriend them, you tend to understand why they behave the way they do.

-- You're a much bigger man than I am Ju. I can control my reflex to actually strike someone, but I *cannot* control my body language and facial expressions that say it all.

Whit but you'll definately bug the shit out of him 'till he leaves you alone.

-- One would normally think so but not this guy. He could talk for 6 hours on how to light a match. If you are paying him attention, he's like the energizer bunny........even more so than rush!

ThisOleMiss Sounds like he could possibly be a 'fake vet'.

-- This is a great point. I often ask vets what their MOS was when I find out they were in. MG was confused.

Slang: So what was your MOS in the Marines?
MG: Huh?
Slang: Your M O S? Military occupational specialty? What did you *do* with the marines?

He said something but I was cut off by someone shouting. His answer wasnt what I would've expected but I cant recall exactly what he said.

Slang: Oooh, field mastrabation. Must have really prepared you for *this* job, huh? :)

Griff One piece of advice- always be aware of potential cover.

--LMAO And....always know the difference between concealment and cover. ;)

SteveDallas "is he always like this?"

--Yes, I think this is a good strategy

ladysycamore Maybe if this moron gets out of line, you could report him to the boss and they could handle his ass.

-- As tough as it is to find people that are physically capable to do this job, I think they have a different method for dealing with people (as I will explain later)

zippyt This has NEVER come out good .

-- LOL That's my experience too. If I were in my normal career, Idda just told him politely to fuck off then starve his project of FEA and CAD resources. Watch him scratchin his ass trying to learn how to run these programs for himself! It aint like the old days though.

that name (zippyt) is the funniest I have seen in some time BTW.

What a difference a coupla days can make.

The day after MG got far under my skin, we kinda got together and talked about some issues on the line. He was real civil and so was I.

Though we each *know* that we annoy each other, he's made some small but meaningful gestures and I hope that things will level out.

One thing I now do first thing I get in the plant is to ask him how he thought things went the night before ( even though he *isnt* the fucking boss). If I ask him upfront if there are probelems with something I am doing, we can discuss it in detail in an environment that we can *hear* each other and I can "read back to him" the proposed changes. In that same conversation, I throw out the fact that I *may* not be able to do it *exactly* that way from the get-go. I dont reject his suggestions out of hand but often am distracted by the extreme volume of the machines and the fact that I'm juggling 50 lb forms. This seems to feed his ego sufficiently so as to keep him out of my face.

I feel a lot better about the whole situation now.

In addition to this new plan, there's another twist. He was switched off the line out to the far end of the plant. He switched stations with another guy and I can imagine what the tap on the shoulder was like.

Boss: Hey MG, I got a "special" project for you. You know that dumb bastard that runs the end line? Well, hes fucked it up so bad that only *you* have the expertise to save us all from certain doom.

MG: You want I should do *both* jobs? You know I can (blindfolded, underwater with a zucchini in my ass)!

Boss: No, we dont want to insult ol' dumbass, we really dont need him, or any of the others for that matter, since *you* work here but we might need him for fill in during your vacation. You know, someone "just to get us by" in your absence.

MG: Roger that.

BUT...even in light of the "new tone", I can only hear just so much about a 50 year old married millionare that has a 20 inch dick, has kicked ass on three continents (with his bare hands...and a roll of pennies), has the serial number "001" copy of model years 65-72 Mustang, 68-74 TA/Camero, told the owners of the company to go fuck themselves *in thier corp office* over a mistake in payroll, shot a 415 lb/62 point buck last year (and gutted it with a sharp stone and a tree branch in 3 minutes) ...etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc

I can't keep myself from laughing outloud in the break room, so I avoid it and him.

Before he leaves or I do, I'm gonna ask for his autograph though. When the world *finally* realizes what a super Alpha he is, it'll certainly be worth money!

Thanks for all your comment and suggestions!

What political persuasion is the match?

Maybe your boss or his boss is a lurker, here. :D

(blindfolded, underwater with a zucchini in my ass) ??


THERE's an option nobody mentioned.

I got hired to work in three areas: Invitational, chapter business, and Harmony Camp. HC has been run by a micromanager (who is otherwise a great guy) for eight years before this one, and has always LOST money. This year, the board of directors gave me a dictate: police it. I worked hard to do that, creating stress on him and stress on me. we butted heads on lots of stuff that would end up to be financial issues.

this year, for the first time ever, HC broke even..even made a little. Mike's response to that was to tell the board he would not work with me ever again,.... it was him or me on this project. now, he's a great idea guy, and a good overseer, but a terrible day to day administrator. *I* am a great day to day administrator. but he won't let me be involved, and he won't step back. so it's him or me.

a zucchini. or maybe send him off to meet slang's marine?

The zucchini thing kinda came outta nowhere. It originally sounded like something almost inpossible to do, and a pretty funny mental pic too.

No and Yes, very.:D

<size=4><b> MG / tolerable shitjob, update</b></size>


Things are getting better. I think my hazing period is over.

The last few weeks MG and I have getten along pretty well. Sure, he's still obnoxious but only intermittantly and not to the degree he was before. There have been times he's actually said and done things funny or constructive. At times I've even felt like we're "pals"!

Last night I was working along side of him and he whacked himself in the head with a hammer. He hit the form square and it came right back up at him, klunked him right in the mellon. The blow knocked his hat sideways too which made the event quite funny. He didnt miss a beat though, kept right on whacking at the offending part. I managed to contain my laughter until I got home.

He also said something I thought was a bit strange until I remembered he was a Marine (how could I have forgotten). There's one guy on the shift that is universally regarded as totally useless with the exception of being used as "a bad example". He runs one of the machines on the end of the plant. Mg runs it infinitely better than "bad example" but none-the-less it's his job since there is only one MG and he cant run all the equipment required for the plant. Anyway, BA was griping about someone threatening him after some incident outside of work. He described some verbal confrontation and intimidation while he was at a local store. He was shook up about it and you just knew that he'd get his ass kicked if he ever had to duke it out. After BA was done whining about it and left the area I heard MG say (loud enough for me to hear) something like, "well **I** better not ever see someone fuckin' with *anyone* from second shift........or that someone's gonna get an ass kickin' ." It seems that because BA is on "the team", Marine Guy feels that uniquely Marine obligation or subliminal kinship to stick together when the fists start flying. That one little line actually impressed me because he himself talks so harshly of BA. So in a small way I can relate.

There's also been a stream of people quitting on the spot the last 2 weeks. We lost 25% of the night shift. That puts a tremendous strain on the rest of us. This work is physically challenging with lifting and running power tools. I had to take over MG's position tonight and I can honestly say he's a tough old bird. MG's 54 and he makes his job look easy to 35 year old displaced engineers working their way through another degree.

So, all in all, yeah, hes an ass but I've come to at least respect what he does at work.

Casually ask.....in

I bet it turns out that the guy's sort of a joke behind his own back. I'd pity the fool too fake to be taken seriously..

the continuing saga


MG was injured the other night. He somehow managed to get a sliver of fiberglass about the size of a finishing nail through his hand. Through the fleshy part between the thumb and the base of the index finger.

MG: (working hard as usual, making grunts and groans to bring attention to the fact he was lifting stuff that would give every member of the team a hernia ) OHH FUCK MEEEE!!! (looks at his hand)
HammerGuy: Nice work, better head to the office.
MG: (pulls the fiberglass out and bleeds all over the floor) Nahh, it's nothin'
LineLeader: Go make out a report MG.
MG: Sheeee-it, for this? (starts going to the other members to show them, bleeding all over the place in the process) You think this is bad slang? (like I'm somehow qualified to assess a wound)
Slang: It's not bad , just stop the bleeding so I dont bust my ass slipping on your blood.
MG: Blood!? You aint never seen blood fagboy! When I was in Nam I was hit by a mortar.
Slang: Ours or theirs?
MG: (piercing glare)

Hee Hee! As in "Stripes":

GENERAL: Where's your Sergeant?
WINGER: Blowed up, Sir!
UNIT: Blowed up, Sir!

Yeah, he doesnt see humor in anything that mocks the beloved corp.

You shoulda seen him last night. They put him on light duty, it drove him nuts!

Learning a new language
 

There is a language among line workers that I hadnt really thought about until I started this new shitjob. It's evolved by necessity becuase of this particularly loud environment.

The communication goes like this; the louder you can yell one or two words with some creative, yet unmistakable hand gestures, the more effective you are. It's also helpful to be menacing with your body language.

Needless to say, I suck at this style of communication just beacuse there is normally more information than 2 words can convey as a total message and my voice has never needed to be that strong so I tend to squeek at high volume. Lets look at an example.

LineLeader: (slides the molds violently so that the one I'm working on jerks wildly out of my hands and crashes to the floor)BANG!
slang: (a very labored yell) HEY!! (hands in air to say "what the fuck", then pointing at where the mold landed, then at my foot which was close)
GroupChorus: Biiiiiiiiiigg.......Pusssyyyyy!!!
MG: (walks all the way down the line to me, snaps to attention 2 inches from my face) WILL YOU SOUND OFF LIKE YOU'VE GOT A FUCKIN' PAIR ?!! (walks away)
slang: (itches head with middle finger)

Translation: What the fuck are you doing, you almost hit my foot.
You can see now that this was a bad example. No one was startled by the volume of my voice or by my guestures. Now lets take a look at another sample.

BigShouldersGuy: (is kneeling between 2 molds working on some delicate adjustment)
LineLeader: (slides molds down the line giving BSG a good pinch through the torso)
BigShouldersGuy: (jumps up onto the line so LL can see his whole body from a distance..........booming volume) HEY ASSHOLE!!! (points to area he was working on, then gives a double point to the portion of his jeans covering his dick)
LineLeader: (waves apologetically)

Translation: Hey asshole, I'm working here and you can bite me, dont do that again. This is a more effective message than mine because of the volume, muscular profile and the boldness of BSG jumping up on the line to make his signals. Now lets looks at one last technique.

LineLeader: (slides line down abruptly, accumulating a larger number of molds and speed as they progress down the line)bang......bang......bang...bang...bang, bang!
MG: (holding the last mold in that sequence, scaping it quickly to keep up)(Freight train volume) FUCKHEAD!!!!!!!! ( shoots hairy eyeball at LL)
LineLeader: (walks all the way up to MG) Hey sorry MG!
MG: (gives him the marine corp style "dissmissed" nod)

Translation: who do you think you're fucking with here? I'll kick your ass, I'm not a big pussy like slang. Now the important part was the volume of the yell. I was right next to him and my eyeballs bled slightly for about 10 minutes and the flourescent light right above us flickered for the rest of the night. This is the most effective sort of message.

Unfortunately, I cant yell loud enough to blur someone's vision and I dont have huge shoulders, so I'm thinking I might take one of those compressed canned air horns to work. The gestures I have down, but I'll never get respect without some cranium penetrating yell or horn.

The world has become so different since I started working outside of my career.

Perhaps some of these can be adapted for your particular application?