Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

When April - aka r9703410 aka Cuddles aka baby doll (guessing) aka whatever else there was - got here, she was given a fair chance to fit in... for a few days. She got pretty irritating with the multiple accounts and the mass PM's and whatnot. When it appeared that she was using the Cellar as her own messageboard, The Tone disabled posting on her account.

She rejoined, promised to play better, and The Tone let it stand. I agreed with this decision, and I still do.

We've had a lot of asshats here. Some of them were asshats throughout their entire stay - Cairo comes to mind. But some of them, when given a chance, really turned it around. slang was an asshat his first week or so, but we gave him a chance, he took advantage of it, and now he's a valued member of the community (and one with deer meet, too). Ciara was an asshat right off the bat, and after a very tough hazing, we kind of accepted her and offered her help. She might not hang around right now, but she left on a good note. Even Radar, the asshat-iest of them all (well, maybe not) is showing some signs of normalcy and isn't nearly as irritating as he used to be.

April comes here with a unique story. No one can really say whether or not it's true for certain. Part of me hopes it is, because I don't like being lied to. Part of me hopes it's not, because it's a hard situation to thrive in. Regardless, she has demonstrated a <b>desire to improve</b>. She's trying not to annoy people and getting attacked in the mean time. It's inexcusable.

I don't care if I'm taking the unpopular route by sticking up for her when she deserves it. I'm doing what I think is right.

**golf clap**

Dave, I agree with what you have to say, and certainly hope that what I say to April is not taken as an attack because it's not meant to be such.

I'm all for giving someone a second/third/fourth chance, but some folks blow it after thier first.

April's not one of them.

Dagney

You know what Dave,

I'm going to lay off rubbing Aprils face in her shit for a while just for you to come back to your senses and do it yourself.

I'm dying to see how long that it'll take. It's ok. No rush. I'm patient.

Enjoy your new friendship...but remember. Shes' only here cause she's bored. Not for any other reason what so ever. She just has nowhere else to go. She has no interst in the cellar, the people, you, me, just something to keep her from being bored.

I don't -care-.

I don't think you have any interest in it other than making yourself feel superior. I'm not petitioning Tony to remove your account. And if you were unjustly attacked, even though I don't particularly care for you, I would stick up for you too. I'm doing what I think is right, and I'll continue to do so.

Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

So...you are running a sort of "asshat rehab"? well, dave I think you've got your work cut out for you this time, and I hope you can pull it off. Quite a cinderella story if you can

~~a young asshat joins a very highbrow and sarcastic online forum. Some say she is way out of her depth. She stumbles at first, making all the classic rookie mistakes. It actually gets so bad she is banned. But she is a persistent little thing and comes back strong. Now, with even more adversity, she takes the high road, and with the help of a very special Dave, comes through with flying colors. At her peak, she is elected vice president of the sarcasm department. And then, just as she reaches her peak, she encounters the biggest adversity of her young life. Her computer crashes, and she has spent all of her money on condoms on the advice of filenotfound, and cannot afford the needed repairs. See how she deals with this challenge in our exclusive mini-series on cbs sunday night at 7pm.~~~~

Oh Dave the saviour, I feel so safe and happy knowing that you're out patrolling these forums, hunting down these unjust attackers and protecting the innocent humble victims. Oh Dave, my prayers go out to you!

Knowing that these forums have a self proclaimed "cop" really puts my mind at ease. Knowing that you'll be out there to save me from the foul attackers will let me sleep better at night.

On second thought...it won't. In fact, don't you think that doing what "you" think is right and attacking those whom 'you' percieve to be unjust is a bit...conceited? Do you do this to make yourself feel better? Does your desire to control this board come out of your lack of control of your life?

But then again, maybe you're just this philantrophistic samaritan out to save the world....but I doubt it.

Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

Just so you know, homeboy, there were some discussions about the Cellar this weekend and I don't remember anyone being particularly enthusiastic about you. I actually had the kindest words. You might not be as outwardly annoying as she was at first, but you haven't impressed anyone either. So perhaps before making fun of others you should examine your posting habits.

That was soooooooooooo funny! Did you write that yourself?

And yet if no one did just that, no one would have stopped Hitler. They would have said "Well, he could be right. I have no backbone, so I'll sit around like a bag of slop and let him do whatever he likes!"

Yes, that's exactly it. You've got me pegged! And yet, it's not me that's posting about how my girlfriend drives me fucking mad because she's borderline retarded and believes there's something useful behind Astrology.

No, that's not it either. At the end of the day, I want to feel like what I did was right. And what I know is not right is picking on someone that's trying to do the best they can with limited means in an awkward situation.

Hey, you're here in the country, and you've made it. You've got a job, a stupid girlfriend, and all is well. Where would you be if no one ever gave you a hand?

Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

ouch.

c'mon dave, take a friggin joke. I'm funny. that last post was especially funny. and, you know, honestly, i WOULD like the people here to like me. I usually sneak posts in while im working, so forgive me if i don't get real deep when i post, but im not that serious of a person. Where am i weak in my posting habits? or are you just grumpy about fnf's obvious attempts to stir you up. don't take the heat from him. and definately don't vent it towards me. I've taken your back in most of the threads that we have intersected on. I know I'm new, and maybe I do post a lot, but when i think of something funny, i like to let it out there.

I'm not here to make fun of anyone, but if an opportunity presents itself...hey.....and i wasn't making fun of you or april in that last post, just commenting on the humor of the situation.

deep breaths....in....out...in...out

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

I thought it was hilarious. Especially for a sneak post.

I feel no pity, no respect nor any sort of compassion nor will I offer support to someone who is dealing with problems that came about as a result of their own stupidity.

Stupid people remain stupid until their stupidity results in them making a nice pile of shit out of their life and forces them to deal with it.

All you teach by helping those retards out, by telling them that "it's ok that you're sitting in a huge pile of your own shit, as long as you want the best and try hard things will be good" is that being a fucktard is ok and people will accept and respect them as the parasites of society that they are.

Yeah so I'm here in the country. One might say that I made it, yet I feel that I've got a long way to go. As far as the people who gave me a hand, well certainly I'd have a tough time without help and would be nowhere near where I am now. Yet the number of people that have helped me is very far from being long. So why not list them:
So far:
My HS councilor who managed to keep me sane despite my father's insanity.
My mother who unlike my father never lost faith in me.
My Drexel University scholarship interviewer who said he saw that I had ambition and talent and handed me a scholarship without which I'd never be able to afford college.
My best friend who's been there when I needed somebody to whine to.

If you knew my life then I'm sure you could argue that a lot of other people should be on the list. After all my father did help me pay for college, shouldn't he be there? Well maybe, but then he did it because he couldn't stand the idea of me not going to college, having a son who didn't have a perfect GPA was difficult enough for him. (He himself has a perfect GPA in college and HS, PhD, 2 books, over 100 publications...the list goes on.)
The truth is that I just can't think of any others who did anything for me that didn't assume a favor exchange, didn't benefit them, or wasn't their job.

I know you'll probably just say "Well File, that’s just cause you're a fucktarded asshole, not like YOU'd help anyone..." the truth is that I've helped a lot of people, yet 80% of the time helping people just left me feeling used and cheated. There are only so many home works you can do for somebody, only so many 6 hour drives you can give somebody just because they asked, only so much money you can let someone "borrow" knowing that you'll never see it again, there is a point at which you come to realize that 99.9% of the people are shit and should be treated as such.

So now before I even consider helping somebody I ask myself : "If I were in their shoes, would they have helped me?". Most of the time I KNOW that the answer is no and yet often I help anyway.

So ask yourself, "Would April come out and put her ass out in the line of fire for my sake?"

So what do you think? Don't lie to yourself, you know she wouldn't.

I'm sure she wouldn't. That's not why I'm doing it though.

If it were borrowing money - I don't know her enough. I wouldn't loan her anything. I'd say "You've got to be fucking kidding me." If it were taking her shift at work, I'd say "I'm busy." There are probably a hundred thousand examples where I wouldn't help her out.

Lots of times you can get fucked by helping someone out. I know this. I've loaned money that's never been repaid.

Believe it or not, I - gasp - give to charity. I don't do it because I'm getting something out of it. I do it because <b>I think it's the right thing to do</b>. Some people are less fortunate and it's not their fault. And if that's the situation, and I can help out, I do.

If you can't, or don't want to, that's fine. My <b>only</b> problem with you is that you're being an ass about not helping out.

But it's your preogative, man. I wish you well, despite the fact that I disagree with your actions. I hope that, if you do have a long way to go, you make it. Life is tough. Everyone deserves a good shot at it.

OK FNF let's take an example: my sister.

She gave birth to her first son at age 15. (He's 17 now and lives with my parents.) She later married the father (whose picture might well be in the dictionary next to "ne'er-do-well") for a while and they divorced after a short time. Her second son was born when she was 28. At the time she was in jail, not for the first time, on drug offenses. The kid's father (whose name might well be in the dictionary next to "scuzzbag") has custody, and is about as unfit a parent as you might imagine. But his weasel lawyers have managed to barely keep the courts from awarding custody to my sister. She is now married to a guy she met in rehab, and she seems to be on the straight and narrow. They have a 1-year-old son now and are doing OK. She's cleaned up her life after years of mostly self-induced disaster. But not without a lot of help of many different kinds from the family, especially my parents. So, it's clear she made some really bad decisions and followed them up with some absolutely horrible decisions, and then for good measure finished up with some colossally disastrous decisions. But I'm glad none of the people who helped her decided to let her live in her shit, as you so eloquently say. Glad for her, and especially glad for her sons, who didn't ask for what they got.

I tell you all this so folks will have a little context for my next remark, which otherwise might strike long-time denizens as out of character.

If you can't muster up any compassion for april, fine. At least have some for her kid. If you can't do that much, then just keep you mouth shut and don't freak out just because some other people on a silly trivial message board (sorry UT) decided they weren't going to shun her even though she acted like, well, like a teenager the first time she came on. And if you can't keep your mouth shut about it, then just get the hell out.

SteveDallas,

I am confused by your post. (Yes I know, I've been saying this a lot) So let me see, your sister has so far brought 3 children into this world. The first she's not taking care of. The 2nd she can't even get custody of from a "scuzzbag" (considering that courts almost always give custody to mothers this says a lot) and has now produced a thrid child with a guy she met in rehab?(Awesome place to meet future fathers. Just super!)

At which point should I say "Wow! Way to go girl!"

Yeah I'm glad for her sons too, well mostly the fact that only one of them is in her care.


As I said. It's my opinion that the only way these sort of people will change their ways is if they know that society will not tollerate or help their kind.

As far as your last statement; your opinion on when others should speak and when they should shut up is appreciated and ignored.

How is this different from any strong-willed person's behavior? Personally, I will always do what I think is right. Because I must. If I see an injustice being done, I will intervene if I am able, because I must. I think this is true of most people, particularly men and women of principle, and those with a strong sense of right and wrong. The problem arises not from having such tendencies, but rather when one's sense of right and wrong conficts with the majority's.

So if doing what one thinks is right and attacking those whom he/she finds to be unjust is conceited, then I guess I'm conceited, too. Along with just about everybody I know. And you. It appears that you're also doing what you think is right, and attacking someone who you see an being unjust... only wielding an alternate opinion.
Agreed. You can like her, dislike her, be indifferent... whatever. But it takes a rather petty man to attack a teenage girl who is being open, honest (presumably), and admitting her mistakes. She's asked for nothing but conversation, and you've given her insults.

If I personally knew a teenage girl with a baby, and some asshole stranger was insulting her about it, telling her how stupid she was, when she didn't ask anything of him, I'd tolerate that for about ten seconds before I'd kick the guy's ass so hard he'd be tasting shoe polish for a week. And I don't think many people would fault me for it.

I ignored her idiotic ass till she started PMing me and after I told her to fuck off posted "WHO IS FILENOTFOUND" as if it wasn't fucking obvious.

She's dumber than the things you might find living on the bottom of your shoe.

She doesn't feel she made any mistakes. She's just damn bored.
Don't you people see that?

She came here to get amused and acted like the person she really is.

She got booted for it. Again and again.

Obviously being her real self didn't work...since there are NO other things for her to do on a PC, she's stuck here. She clearly stated this several times. She's just here because she's got nowhere else to go due to the firewalls. This board is her only possible source of entertainment at school.

So now she's trying a new approach of "Woe is me! Look at me! I'm in so much pain! I've made so many mistakes! Oh look I'm trying so hard to fix up my life by wasting hours on this message board. Oh boo hoo hoo I had sex when I was 12, never used bc and still don't use condoms. Do you forgive me yet or do I need to get more dramatic?"

How can you be so gullible? God, get some sense...

He's got a point!

I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say "You're right. I'm wrong. Okay! Case closed."

Sure that <b>that</b> is over with.

Your sarcasm is most refreshing.

I wasn't being sarcastic.

I don't know, it seems to be that she feels she made mistakes:
So, she made some huge message baord etiquitte mistakes (I do not use or recognize the word "netiquitte" ... shudder), and now she's trying to just communicate. Judge her all you want, but you're flinging a lot of damning character opinions at her with very little information, and to very little purpose other than trying to inflict emotional pain. No one can stop you, but we can encourage you to stop before the community at large concludes that you are worthless ass.

Hey, maybe she's making this shit up, and if so, some of us are gullble and may end up feeling kinda dumb. But maybe she's telling the truth. Either way you're being an ass, it just changes the degree.

Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

He's starting to impress me...he might be a keeper. He's still gonna have to run the gauntlet though.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

...hmmmmm

gauntlet


2nd time you've mentioned it. the 1st time i thought it was just a crack. now?........

you might just be fuckin with me, but then.......who wouldn't be insanely curious? a GAUNTLET?!??? sounds so heroic. ~~~ ?can i run the gauntlet? ?will i fail, and be humiliated? ? ? ? Does it involve loud drums and fire? ?

do tell

oh, and thanks, syc....

I'll stick up for jimbo because he has written some very funny stuff.

It involves a blindfold, the Schuylkill Expressway and 90mph in rush hour...

as long as im the one going 90mph, I'm in. who wears the blindfold?


-thx UT

That would be you...did I mention the '82 Imperial?

Hey, I once drove the wrong way down the Benjamin Franklin Parkway at a considerablly high rate of speed in the dead of night.

One of my eyes-as-big-as-saucers buddies asked: "Why are all those headlights heading straight for us?" A quick U-Turn ensued!:)

A late night at the "Bank" will do that (is that place even still there? - I think it was on Springgarden close to the river)

Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

Wait a minute, the people that gathered over the weekend may be active and vocal but still represent less than 1% of the membership in the Cellar. Any opinions that group expressed are just that, opinions. Besides even a group that small, of the Cellar wackos, couldn't reach a consensus.:haha:
Tony, and only Tony, is judge, jury and executioner for he owneth the plug. As far as I can tell, he's pretty damn tolerant and willing to let the Cellar grow as it will in scope and direction. I think he's taking a cue from the way Katkeeper raised him.:)
This business of be nice, play nice and speak (write) nice or shut up, will kill the Cellar faster than a power outage. Maybe we need a smiley with a zipper mouth for when we don't have anything nice to say.
Dave, do you have a little Dave or Davette stashed away you're not telling us about?:D

It's apparently a place called Transit now (6th and Spring Garden).

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Curious, why the hell does that matter? If I do right by someone it has nothing to do with how they will respond. That way lies only bitterness and letdown. I do right by people becuase I believe it to be right. Not because I expect a return.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, simple response to April, or anyone as stupid as you say she is. Put her on your ignore list. After all, if she's that stupid she won't say anything of value to you, therefore, no loss. Plus you won't be irritated by her, your gain.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I will admit though, I've missed most of the stuff with her as I haven't the time for much dwelling of late. I also tend to skip the "Hi, I'm a newbie" threads. Still, I say keep her around, without the extra abuse. Perhaps she'll be better in the future. Of course I stood up for Luvbugz too, and I was one of the first people she freaked out on...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

Yeah, I 've been thinking more about that shot that dave took at me:
And the more i DO think about it, the more I think it was a chicken shit cheap shot. Now, maybe you didn't put a lot of thought or malice into it, but the way you phrased it gave me pause on a couple levels.

first off, to tell me that the people ( who are pictured in the thanks thanks thread) were talking about me and not too impressed is shitty. I'm sure, IF that's true, they wouldn't appreciate you telling ME that. This is the impression you gave, but when i re-read it, you didn't even say that, you just said, "I don't remember anyone being particularly enthusiastic about you."

second, you take the position of being the one who had said the "kindest words". very nice of you. so, here, while you take a shot at me vicariously through the other people at that party, you stand out of the line of fire by saying you had my back......yet, you are the one telling me that there were (at least infer that there were) negative feelings toward my "posting habits"

I see that you post quite a lot in here, Dave, and the people seem to respect you. For the most part, your views are well thought out and accurate. So why the low blow? juju attached the thread that related to the honeypot thread, and in it you said this:

" For me, the Cellar is something really special. I don't want it to ever go away - especially because it got too popular and the crapflooders started coming here. If we're still a "community", I'll be a member."

I can appreciate that, and I agree. It's just that of course, I don't think I'm a crapflooder or an asshat.

I realize that I have not contributed nearly what you have to this forum, but I also think that I DO have something to offer. Time will tell. I'll try to be more impressive, too.

The point was that we're giving you a chance (and, to your credit, you're taking advantage of it). We can't give you a chance and not someone else. You wouldn't like being pigeonholed like April has. Why should we pigeonhole her?

I'll not say who said what, other than to say that my response to one of them was "I actually kind of like him. But Jesus Christ does he look constipated in that picture." I then proceeded to do my best imitation. :)

Anyway, everyone deserves a fair shot. We all agreed that you should get one, and in doing so, we need to give April one too. Might work or it might not. But we gave her the opportunity.

i would have loved to see that......

and fyi, the camera was way to close, and i was being photographed under duress, and therefore making a pained face.

As far as April goes, I don't know if you caught any of the thread started by razor eye before toad deleted it, but this chick is whacked: she created yet another id , but htis time used her teacher's email address, username from HIS forum, and his website ......impersonating him...... yeah, give people a chance. no, don't tolerate the obviously twisted. It's time to give up on the April defense....FnF has her pegged.(although, i agree he was out of line mean).......I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up at your door one day saying she loves you and needs your help because you were nice to her way back when.......

At which point, I would say "If you need a meal, I'll buy you one, but I'm taken (and if that doesn't pan out, there's always Dani)."

I caught the thread, and was the first person to know that she was razoreye or whatever it was. It definitely wasn't the smartest thing to do, but she <b>is</b> a 17 year old girl...

Regardless of whether or not he has her pegged, I do believe that he was out of line, and that's why I stuck up for her. I felt it was right.

I was initially concerned with lumberjim...I just wasn't getting a good vibe off the guy. It was discussed at the gathering.

But now, having seen him post more, I think he's gonna be just fine...if he can survive the Imperial. :)

Dave generally means well, though he lacks tact. Having said that, he is aware of it, and has made improvement since his early days.

I just wish all the teenagers on here would be like Chewie...he's been on here since the beginning of Mk. V, and if he hadn't mentioned it, you wouldn't know that he's just now in his first year of college at age 17/18.

Teenagers? It's the generation gap. I've been working IT in higher ed since 1992... well, since 1987 if you count while I was still in college & working as a student. I mean, I still made cash in college typing research papers for people because hardly anybody knew how to use word processors. At that point, in that place, you weren't even automatically entitled to an email account as a student.

Fast forward to my "real" employment, and I handed out email accounts and passwords to students at orientation darn every year now since 1992. I've seen it go from "e mail? What's e mail? Oh who cares I'll put it in my pile of other papers from the college that I'll never read" to "Oh really, I've heard about email, it might be neat to try it out" to "Gimme my email account now" to "I don't want your stinkin' email account, I've already got three of 'em".

My employer supplied high-speed networks in the dormitories for the first time in 1995, and we were kind of in the middle of the pack for our peer group institutions. (I still have nightmares about setting up TCP/IP in Windows 3.1.) These kids, who are now mostly in their late 20s, were more interested in email than anything else--because there wasn't much of anything else, just telnet and ftp, and gopher, which was really fabulous and trendy for about 10 months. On the other hand, your average college freshman today has been IM'ing at least since starting high school, and may well have had as much or more bandwidth at home as my 1995 employer provided for the entire campus!

I think there really is an online generation gap that shows up in a lot of things, like writing. The expectations of writing in email in the mid 90s for example may have been informal... but not as informal as IM or txt msging.

Sure he means well.... even though he repeatedly attempts to hurt other people's feelings.

I personally think it's pretty despicable.

How reasonable of you to speculate on my motivations for saying what I say.

Again, you're no psychologist, and you have no qualifications to make that remark. If I use an ad hominem attack, it is almost certainly not to hurt feelings.

When I said what I said the other night to you, I picked words I thought you would pay attention to. Your "You're pathetic" had no place in the conversation. Pointing this out to you has <b>never</b> worked - we've tried it many times before, remember? You respond to personal attacks, and that is what I will use against you when you open fire.

My goal is not to hurt your feelings. It's to make you stop and say "Ooookay! This isn't where the conversation should be. Let's get back on track." I'm not sure if you've noticed, but it tends to work.

Juju, you've been here long enough to know how Dave operates. You set yourself up when you failed to back up your post with facts or qualifiers. Goddamnit, how many times have I said that in the three years I've been here? And how many times have you done something like that? Several on both questions.

Do I agree with how Dave operates in regards to this sorta thing? No, because I think it does more harm than good. And no, it wasn't cool to bring your kid into it. But you did deserve the retard comment.

So, bottom line: watch how you word things and keep it cool.

Of course he's always been that way. I don't mean to suggest otherwise. It's just that I've finally decided what I think of it.

I don't care what the topic of discussion is.. nothing makes such behavior moral. I don't think anything justifies it. But again, i'm just voicing my opinion.

I'm curious, then, how you justify posting "You're pathetic" in the middle of a discussion after the only thing I've done remotely similar to you in said discussion is very strongly but clearly imply that you don't have the qualifications to make such a statement?

I just want to make sure this is clear:

OF COURSE it wasn't cool to bring his kid into it. Just like it wasn't cool to say "You're pathetic". That was the whole point of doing it. To make him go "Gee, it kinda sucks where this is going now."

Sorry, but if talking to me that way is the only way you feel that we can successfully communicate, then we will simply not communicate at all. This should be an acceptable compromise for both of us.

Well, if you're incapable of qualifying statements and therefore presenting bogus ideas as fact, then I will indeed respond to such statements with ridicule.

You'll notice that when you're well spoken and reasonable, I respond to you in the same manner.

To suggest I am the only person responsible for the degredation of the conversation is ridiculous.

But whatever. I'm fine with a mutual exclusivity pact. It's not what I'd prefer, but if you are incapable of handling ridicule when you make ridiculous statements, then it's probably the best course.

Come on, guys...you're both adults here. How about handling it like adults?

Juju, you posted opinion as fact. Always bad. Then a followup comment came across as a personal attack. Sometimes, I wonder how much you think before you post.

Dave, I think you overreacted to begin with. Then you pulled Juju's kid into it, which, even by your "fight fire with fire" standard, seems pretty low. Seriously, how would you feel if juju started dragging your family or your gf into an attack on you?

You don't have to listen to what I'm saying, but I'd hate to see things get uglier between you two, and therefore pull the board as a whole down b/c two of the better peeps here are at each other.

If that means not speaking, so be it. But I don't think it has to be that way.

ok...first off...I'm butting in and I know it. Sorry.

But can't we all just get along? Juju, forgive Dave the cheapshot about your BEAUTIFUL new baby ( all new babies are beautiful) and Dave, let go of the "your pathetic" line....you're not pathetic.

I have only seen you two clash in this thread and maybe one other, so I don;t have a firm grasp of your history, but if you guys just ignore each other, WHAT FUN WOULD THAT BE FOR THE REST OF US?!


now shake hands and make up

I'm not trying to justify my attack as truthful. I have stated that the point of the comment was to get across that personal attacks are not useful in discussion between juju and I. Of course I wouldn't like an attack against the woman or my family. That's the whole point! He went personal first and I ended it.

I also don't think it needs to end with us not talking. It's retarded that he came in with "You're pathetic". It shouldn't have gotten there. He should have said "I should clarify - I don't think it's likely that blah blah blah. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was stating it as fact." Then I would have said "Oh. Well, fair enough." We shouldn't even be here! But if the end result is that we're not talking any more, that's <b>his</b> prerogative. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. It's not like we're lovers.

Now now guys...

No need to stop them. This thread is almost at 50 replies, I figure if we let it go it might get to 100...aren't you curious?

Dave, have you considered that caustic remarks may not always be the answer in situations like this?

As I understand it from you, you go caustic in part b/c 1) you don't like people that post opinion as fact and 2) you want to show people that it's not cool to go personal.

In the grand scheme of things, I think what Juju said is silly (in regards to opinion as fact). We all do it at one time or another...it happens. Yes, Juju has done it before. But still...you completely dressed him down, and at the end, you made a comment that Juju (and anyone else) could have easily construed as you starting the attack. Was it really called for this time? Imagine if you hadn't gone off like that...he might not have called you pathetic, and this shit might have not have occurred.

But at the same time, you could have easily said, "Juju, you're posting opinion as fact. Why do you keep doing that? Knock it off!" or "Care to back that up with some sources?" Or, you could have just ignored it altogether.

I'm not saying that you should completely quit blowing people out of the water...sometimes, it's amusing...even called for. But consider this:

--When you pounce like that, do you really get your point across? Or are you just adding fuel to the fire?

--How could those attacks come across to fellow--and potential--Dwellars? Beyond "I wanted to show people that personal attacks are uncool."

Just give it some thought...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

If you saw the pictures, you saw Alayne. I can honestly say I didn't think of you at all.;)

I've just registered here, (within the last few days) and I've had 3 private messages from April, demanding that I accept her and be her friend.
I find her rather obnoxious. I do find most of the other posts highly amusing though, and very interesting. Keep up the good work!



guess I'm going to get another private message *sigh*

I find deleting them without reading helps. Less frustrating

Join the club. I didn't start hating her for no reason.

Oh and....Welcome and stuff...

FNF:On second thought...it won't. In fact, don't you think that doing what "you" think is right and attacking those whom 'you' percieve to be unjust is a bit...conceited?

DAVE:
And yet if no one did just that, no one would have stopped Hitler. They would have said "Well, he could be right. I have no backbone, so I'll sit around like a bag of slop and let him do whatever he likes!"

But wait: Hitler actually killed people and tried to destroy an entire race/culture. This is TOTALLY different, in the grand scheme of things.

I have to say that I can't disagree with this, not one bit. She made her bed, and now she's lying in it, but yet seems to want people to feel sorry for her and her situation...a situation that SHE WANTED! That's fine and dandy if that's what people want to do, but that's NOT going to be me. The best I can do is hope that the child isn't raised in a dysfunctional home.

Yes, people make mistakes and have come back stronger than ever from them. But, I will CONTINUE to get angry when I see people becoming statistics everyday. I get mad hearing about the teen who ends up dead because of drunk driving or hearing of yet ANOTHER teen pregnancy, I get mad when yet another black person ends up in trouble with the law and in jail, I get mad when yet another woman ends up hurt because she didn't leave that abusive man, and so on. MAYBE compassion for those people will come later (and that's a BIG maybe), but goddamnit my first reaction is always going to be pissy mad, P-E-R-I-O-D (especially when a problem could have been avoided if proper action had been taken in the first place!!).

:mad:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I'll Stick Up For April
 

Granted there IS a way of saying things without getting nasty about it. I think that has become a "lost art" if you will.

{sistahgurl}However, imma keep it real{/sistahgurl} ;)

I'm not going to say that if someone has a strong opinion about something, that they can't express it. After all, I am not the owner/moderator of this board, and therefore I do not feel that I have the right to squash someone's freedom to speak.

Basically, not everyone is going to "love" what others say and how they say it...to that I say oh well. Can't please everyone, right?

I feel that people can get more out of picking and choosing their battles anyway. Is it *really* worth getting into wild flame wars with people _online_? I dunno...words don't carry much weight to me if you can't deliver the same punch in a "real world" situation. That's just my take on it.

Ok, just like lumberjim said, I'm butting in and sorry.

How is calling someone's statement "retarded" any worse than calling someone "pathetic"? And really...is pathetic the WORSE thing that someone can call you? And what's this about how he "should" have responded: you can't tell someone HOW to respond and expect them to comply merely because YOU said to do so. That to me sounds like some kind of control issue.

At any rate, it's not always what you say, but how you say it that makes a difference in many situations. And also "just because you CAN doesn't always mean you SHOULD". :)

Please go read everything juju and I have ever posted together before commenting. That way, you might have some idea what's going on. Thanks.

It sounds to me like you don't have the faintest fucking idea what's going on. I'm not giving juju an order; what I was saying was that if what he wanted to convey was that his previous post was an opinion, he could have better done so using wording that resembled what I posted in the text you quoted. There is no control issue, I was not giving him an order, blah blah blah. Again, please read the conversation we're talking about before posting. I wasn't telling him how to respond. I was stating that he did a piss poor job showing that his post was opinion and not a statement of fact, and that if he wanted to make it clear that it was an opinion, he <b>should</b> have said something like what I said. It's a suggestion. "If you don't want people to talk down to you, you should do your homework and read up on posts before commenting on them as if you have any idea what's going on." I don't care whether or not you do your homework, as long as you don't care that I think your opinion is invalid because you're ignorant of the situation and/or can't understand common English phrase usage such as I employed in the post you quoted.