Dave just left
 

pussy

I've read the comments he left along with Toad's. I dont fully understand the problem but I'm sad to see him go. NicName had a similar problem and left too. Both of these guys were interesting and fun to have here.

What can one do? They are free to stop coming here (if they can beat the addiction).

what the fuck has been going on around here?

[just finished reading around]

what the fuck is going on around here?

dave got his feelings hurt, took his ball and left.


SEE http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&...&pagenumber=18

IRONIC, NO?

On the contrary; Dave did NOT get his feelings hurt, and was trying to explain that to everyone. Maybe it's easier for me to understand the situation and the way he feels because I know him so well, but I think it's pretty evident what happened here, and I really think the whole thing is pretty dumb.

ok, jeni. whatever. I know he didn't get his feelings hurt about the eye. When I started this thread and the poll, I was dissapointed, and I was trying to egg him into returning. This seemed like such a little thing to quit over. I would have thought that someone who had as much time and supposed effort invested would be harder to shake. So he and syc had a problem. What about the other people he liked? To bail outlike that is cowardly. If he was just sick of the cellar, he should have said so instead of burrying sycamore by laying the blame at his feet.

Makes me think he's got hurt feelings. I don't know why I give a shit. When I first joined, I assumed he must be one of the moderators or maybe the admin, because he was treated like one. He was respected. THIS just makes him look childish. Like he just wants the attention. What a way to go.

I realize now, however, that even if he DID return, it wouldn't be the same. The damage is done.

I have lost respect for him, and his words wouldn't mean as much ( at least to me) [not that he should care about what I think] anyway. Too bad.

Whatever.

Naw, it wasn't respect, Jim. Dave works for a Government contractor that works with the parts of the government that you don't hear about....and live. They can convince your mother, you never existed. Everyone was affraid Dave would have them nullified.

Oh...and he raised attack spiders too.:D

I happen to know a little bit more about this situation than he's explained in his goodbye post; it really isn't like that. At all. Knowing Dave, and having talked to him a bit about what happened, I know that this doesn't have anything to do with hurt feelings or being sick of the Cellar. He's certainly disappointed, yes... but this just happens to be the way he deals with certain things, and I am not at all surprised that this was the path he chose to take.

He always becomes increasingly abusive and then burns all his bridges and bolts?

How many friends does he have left, with such immature boorish behavior?

What binds you to attempt to defend this kind of stuff without being able to talk about it? Oh, OK, fine, it wasn't cowardly, it was some other form of unspeakable bullshit that permits him and only him to be a total ass.

I for one don't care much about the reason. The fact that it's supposed to be some deep dark secret says much more: it's pathetic game-playing, and the most pathetic thing of all is that the game is still going on and you've been brought into it and are playing it, days after the fact.

Cowardly behavior. As LJ says, pussy. Pussy pussy pussy.

Monday his forum is archived.

You know, he explained all of this shit to you, and you're taking sides. Maybe it could have been handled differently on his part, but it's pretty pathetic that people he used to consider good friends are now turning on him and calling him names, when he would never have done this to you. THAT is fucking childish.

Edit: And to think, when I talked to Dave last night, he was near clueless about why you chose to end your friendship with him. Over a fucking forum? I mean, can't we let Dave and sycamore work this out without meddling in it? I think it's pretty funny that you are here bashing him, while when I talk to him, he's saying things like "I guess he just doesn't want to be friends anymore", and NOT acting like a complete child by calling you names, since this whole thing had next to nothing to do with you in the first place.

It's not some deep, dark secret. He doesn't want to drag it out on here because he realized that enough had been said, and he also realized that those who needed to know were those in the know. Which is exactly why he chose to converse with you through email. If you wanted him to post it on here, I'm sure you could have asked, instead of saying this shit about him behind his back.

Look, I wasn't trying to defend everything he's done regarding this situation, because I honestly don't know all the details. However, I do know him well enough that I know it isn't as simple as him just running off with his tail tucked between his legs. And as jeni stated, it is not some deep dark secret, it just really isn't my place to be running my mouth about what I do know about what happened.

There is so much concern about name-calling and getting "personal". For some reason it's seen as off-limits and "morally reprehensible".

But there is also truth. When someone acts like a jerk, I feel like it's okay to say, "Hey, you're acting like a jerk. What's up with that?" For that person to then come back and say, "Oh, well, now you're getting personal!" is incomprehensible to me.

Also, to have good friends, you have to treat them with respect. That's the way it should be, anyway.

I can't imagine how those little pathetic exchanges led to a complete departure of the forum. I wouldn't have thought they represented an "explanation" of a "side".

I looked at the whole response and decided I wouldn't want a friend who operated that way. Or one who trolled everyone - insulting Juju's BABY? Mocking Syc for being on Unemployment? Where IS the line, anyway? I am not only not down with that kind of crap as a target, I'm against it as an innocent bystander.

To be fair, though, "pussy" is probably uncalled for.

(edit: that wasn't intended as a direct reply to the above comment, UT)

I have no problem with name-calling, however, when one person is referring to another as a coward and a child, I find it rather amusing that said person is being quite cowardly and childish themself. I'm forced to sit here and say "Hi, you should talk."

The baby thing was stupid. I'm not defending that. I can see David's point on the matter; however, I still think it was pretty dumb.

Are you seriously bringing up the mocking of sycamore being unemployed? Give me a break, I've seen Dave and sycamore joke about that on here more than once. Just like they joke about looks and weight. Was it low of Dave to bring that up? Sure, just as low as it was of sycamore to bring up Dave's eye. Should it have ruined their friendship? No. Not in my opinion, and not in Dave's opinion either. Should friends act like adults and work through shit like this? Yes. They should.

As far as your knowledge on the matter goes, you chose not to ask questions. LIKE I SAID, if you had asked about it, I'm sure he would have been happy to explain. Since the whole thing had nothing to do with you personally, I would say that your refusal to ask follow-up questions, and therefore the resulting ignorance of the situation, is your own fault.

It's really sweet how you defend your brother like that and feel so entitled to just flip blame around hoping to cause some kind of collateral damage.

He didn't get his way. He didn't get respect. And he got all pouty and took his football and ran home.

It ain't pretty, and neither are you defending it with your little complicated, invented additional drama.

Because I don't recall you being on the CC list on our little back and forth, so maybe you have no concept and should just shut the fuck up while you're ahead.

I'm not defending my brother. The fact of the matter is that since I know what happened, and you are unwilling to learn, I know more about the situation from his point of view.

I think it's funny that you're completely willing to turn on him even though he did nothing to you. I think it's petty and childish of you, because you're a grown man. GROW THE FUCK UP.

Just like everyone else here, I am reading and posting my opinions. I'm not adding drama. I'm not getting into the business with sycamore and Dave, simply stating what I know to be true. I'm not taking sides. I've said not one thing to sycamore about the whole mess, because it's not my place to moderate...just like it's not your place to do so.

You're right, I wasn't on the CC list, but I have seen the emails. Therefore, I do have some concept of what went on, and like I said, I'm posting my opinion.

Also, don't fucking condescend to me.

what a difference a few days make. I see sparks and smoke and slobber being flung about. A lot of people ranting with unusual vitriol. Passion and posturing by most everyone but Dave and Syc. Hmmmm, curiouser and curiouser.
Tony going off on Jeni out of frustration because he feels she's doing what Dave ought to be doing himself. At least that's my take on it, but I've been wrong before, once in 1967, but that's another story.
Dave, Mr in your face, over the top, throw an insult I'll throw back a grenade leaves in a snit?
Syc, drops a couple of turds and retreats to the high ground and suddenly has nothing to say. Even lets Rho use the computer for a change.
How in hell did April's thread stir up this kind of shit?

Is it my fault? If I apologized to hayward for calling her a lying cunt would that calm everyone down? Well if that's the case..... Fuck it, you can all leave.:p

So I don't know enough about what happened. All I know is what David told me, and the way it seems, I can understand why he felt prompted to do what he did. I just hope that all of this is worth losing a friendship over, and that's all.

Turning...! He fuckin' LEFT, is THAT turning?

What WILL you do to throw blame anywhere else?

Yeah, I suspect I'm really at the bottom of this somehow, although I never asked to be or wanted to be, and it only serves to confirm why I'm an anti-social bastard.

I don't have many friends and I really really like it that way. Dave was not my "friend". He was some dude I know who lives 3 hours away. I have three friends that I treasure like gold and I would die for them. Everyone else, OUT OF THE GODDAMN POOL.

Also, this confirms to me why I don't like GTGs and didn't have any for a decade. And why I won't attend another one for a decade. Christ.

People: they fuckin' suck.

Yes they sure do. But you know what? You don't have to let them get under your skin. The faster I learned that, the better off I was as a person, IMO. Quite frankly, my days of making friends are over (in other words, I'm not seeking 'new recruits', if you will). I have my "crew" back home in Baltimore that will ALWAYS be my closest and dearest. IF I happen to make more, then great. If not, then oh well, my life still goes on.

Please don't let this drama keep you from enjoying people that you DO like and trust. It's not even worth it.

This had to be broken up due to size limits... my apologies in advance.

So, my email this holiday weekend has included a number of snippings from various posts here. That's disappointing, because it's compelled me to actually take time and respond.

Tony said the following: "The fact that it's supposed to be some deep dark secret says much more: it's pathetic game-playing". Those are some big words. Care to back them up?

You can't (they're opinion). The <b>fact</b> of the matter is that I chose to keep the details private out of respect for you and sycamore. I'm not sure about sycamore, but my respect for you was obviously very misplaced. So I'm opening it up, for everyone to see.

<b>The Eye</b>
The name calling with sycamore in the "Things you should do." thread started with my comment that, if you use standard viewing options, is at the very bottom of page 15. In it I stated: "I would think your number one goal, however, would be plastic surgery, you ugly bag of slop." He responded with "I'm there as soon as you get a new eye and a sparkling personality...", which is the <b>first</b> eye comment. I posted a frownie a few minutes later, one which I thought would convey humor (as I have previously stated in the aforementioned thread). It starts again a few posts later, when ladysycamore remarks "Not for all the money in the world!" regarding the idea of engaging in sexual intercourse with Ron Jeremy. I responded "And yet, you're with sycamore." - to which sycamore responded "And yet, Jenni's with you." Okay, nothing wrong here yet. We go back and forth for a little while longer. I said "And that being the case, earns the title 'Most Tolerant Person In The World'. (Rho gets the "Poorest Taste In The World" award. :P )", he said "That, or she's blinder than you.", making the <b>second</b> eye comment. I responded "I would think that would be quite obvious. (Incidentally, I'm the only one out of the four of us that doesn't wear glasses and has 20/10 vision. You fucking nerds.)" and he said "I may be a nerd, but how is your depth perception and peripheral vision?", making the <b>third</b> eye comment. We should note that up until this point, I haven't said anything about the eye.

My response is then "My peripheral vision is quite good. The depth perception obviously is non-existant. Neither have kept me from having a job while you were collecting unemployment these past few years. (What's it like to be a burden to the state?)", which, to me, continued along the same lines of "playful namecalling" that had been thriving in this thread. Nothing more of the eye is said until lumberjim says (on the fifth post on page 18) "no fair picking on a physical malady". I addressed this comment as follows:

sycamore's response is:

We then continue like so:

At this point, I call him to task, because I am getting tired of this argument. It wasn't a big deal to me, and it apparently wasn't a big deal to him until I said something about <b>my own eye</b>.

I messaged sycamore that night on AOL Instant Messenger, trying to get a sense of whether or not he was actually upset. I asked him as much. He said something to the effect of "I think it was pretty shitty to bring it up on the Cellar". I asked "What, the eye thing?" and he said "Yes." Unfortunately, this is the only part of the whole ordeal that I don't have logs of, but the words were very close to what I have posted, if not exactly the same. I then indicated that I was only fucking around. "I'm glad you think this is funny" was his response. I told him that I was sorry that it upset him; he got offline without saying another word.

Now, unfortunately, I have not exchanged many words with sycamore since the incident, but I can only be left to believe that he's referring to my post in which I addressed lumberjim's comment (seeing as he said "Yes" when I asked if he was referring to the eye thing). As I have clearly demonstrated above, he first brought up my eye, and made <b>three</b> separate "mean-spirited" comments about it. I say "mean-spirited" because they weren't inquisitive like Bruce's. I don't mean to imply that he meant to hurt my feelings, only that the nature of the comments is not productive.

The next morning, the following has been posted by Undertoad in the same thread:

I felt he was <b>way</b> off base, and responded as follows:

I then followed up with an email, the contents of which are posted below:

Tony responded as follows, in an email at 10:41 AM:

Right off the bat, the last thing he says, "The fact that I own the place has no bearing." removes <b>any</b> relation he has to the issue. So essentially he's admitting "It's none of my fucking business", which is backed up by what he says above that.

I responded with the following two emails, to which I received no response:

At this point in time, I thought that things between Tony and I are okay, and he had given me no outward indication that would lead me to believe anything else.

<b>The Departure</b>
When I got home from work that evening, I messaged sycamore on AOL Instant Messenger. The conversation went as follows:

dave (11:48:50 PM): are we on not-speaking terms still?
sycamore (11:49:28 PM): beyond cellar, yes
dave (11:50:12 PM): that gonna wear off any time soon or no?
sycamore (11:50:59 PM): don't know
dave (11:51:11 PM): alright dude. have a good one.

I was pretty disappointed, because I had been trying to salvage the relationship and it didn't seem as though he wanted to do so. I was also still disappointed with Tony's handling of the situation, though I had (mistakenly, it turns out) believed it to be in good faith. That having been said, I didn't feel that the situation was workable for the Cellar. The whole time I have been there, sycamore and I have been friends, and I felt disgusted and disappointed enough with the whole situation to call it quits. I would salvage the friendships I had, leave the rest behind and get on with my life. I wrote my goodbye post and went to sleep.

As it turns out, things are not that simple!

I emailed Tony the next day. Twice. They said the following:

As is pretty clear, I'm trying to salvage whatever it is I have with Tony. He responds, and I'm going to copy this whole email right here into this post.

We all know that he didn't actually mean "Good luck, dude!" - he meant "Fuck you." Which is fine. He's entitled to say whatever he wants.

I responded:

And that was that!

<b>lumberjim's thread</b>
lumberjim started this thread, and it's drawn a fair number of posts. A few different people have sent me portions of it, and I wasn't going to respond, but there are a few points I think that need to be brought up, and so I will do so.

No. I left for reasons stated above and in my farewell post, which have been expanded upon in this thread by others. (Believe it or not, a couple of people actually <b>understand</b> why I left, and have said as such in email.)

I guess it's good that I don't answer to you or value your opinion on my life then, isn't it? It's not such a "little thing" (as I have said above and will demonstrate below). I tried to fix a problem, the other party was unreceptive, and I looked at the whole picture and made a choice. Angelus will be happy, others will be disappointed. They will get over it, and anyone that really cares to know me can private message me or email me.

I don't want attention, which is another one of the reasons I didn't make a huge deal about it and post everything when I left. As for it making me look "childish" - what, trying to resolve a conflict is childish? You say nothing of the other players here? Why, because one of them is so grown up as to call names behind someone's back? If your measure of what is childish and what is not was the one that mattered, then I think this world would be a much worse place than it is. Perhaps you should wonder why you feel yourself so qualified to write about something on which you are largely ignorant? Because until these posts, you didn't really have any fucking idea what happened here.

Er, where did I become increasingly abusive toward sycamore? He was calling me names and you said nothing. I respond, and you come in like the fucking savior. You then acknowledge privately that you're not very good at human relations. Now here you are, acting like an expert.

I have a number of very good friends, and the reason I am blessed as such is because they too <b>act like adults</b> when it's necessary. Fucking around is all well and good 95% of the time, but when relationships are on the line, sycamore and you are apparently incapable of acting your age. He is 28, and you just turned 40. This is what you're capable of? Taking to a public forum to discuss a private matter that you declined to discuss with me when you had the chance? Oh, what a big man you are! You are 40 going on 8.

You don't want a friend who operates that way, and yet you're friends with sycamore? 'Cause he operates pretty much the same way. You know, with namecalling and all.

Here's where it gets even more absurd, folks! Talking about juju's baby or "Mocking Syc for being on Unemployment? Where IS the line, anyway?" - apparently not at making fun of people with disabilities, because <b>you didn't say a goddamn word about that!</b> Once when he was on the phone while in the TT on the way down here and <b>three</b> times in the "Things you should do" thread sycamore made a joke comment about my eye. Where were you then, standing up for decency?

The fact of the matter is, you're <b>not</b> against it, and <b>you're a liar for saying so</b>. On 09/28/2003 you posted the following to LUVBUGZ in the "MotherF#$%@*!!!!!!" thread: "I warned you not to share a thread with me, you worthless fucking attention whore." You're not only not against it, but you do it as well!

I made a habit of calling LUVBUGZ names, and you privately messaged me your approval:

Of LUVBUGZ, I said to you "See, as you recall, I asked you about her a month or so ago. 'Cause I knew then that she was a babbling retard. And she's proven me right. Good lord dumb people peeve me. Who allowed her to get a computer?" and you responded "True. It did take about 300 messages for it to be proven to be completely without any redeeming qualities whatsoever. But true."

After you and I were ripping into her on the forums, you messaged me the following:

"You're a cat person, and you don't live in the city, so I know you've seen when a cat catches some prey and brings it home and plays with it.

That's what we're basically doing."

You said, on 10/03/2003 in a private message: "Thinking about this another way, back in the day we used to put annoying users through an organized silent treatment that was absolutely effective. For LB, this treatment would be devastating. I mean I almost hesitate to suggest it because it's so harsh, but imagine what would happen if none of her posts resulted in so much as a "who cares" post in response?

For an <b>attention whore</b>, that's like torture."

The emphasis was mine, but the words are yours, and the hostility is undeniable when referenced against your posts and private messages.

I said to you, after an attack on LUVBUGZ, "JESUS CHRIST SHE IS STUPID." and you responded "Well yer doin' the good work these days. I can't right now, for some reason, but everyone knows and agrees with you and is happy to see it."

Of my picking on LUVBUGZ and in response to something Matt had said and I forwarded to you, you had the following to say: "Well either way, it's vital important work you're doing.. keep it up."

Does this sound like the type of person that is against the namecalling behavior? Not only not standing up to it (until I am gone) but <b>encouraging</b> it privately?

You are smart, Tony, but you are in an indefensible position. Jen is calling you on it, and instead of addressing her points, you dismiss them with an ad hominem attack. As has been explored many times on the Cellar, all this does is make you look like a fool. (You've succeeded. I am supported quite strongly in private emails whose authors concur that you are way off base. I'm not going to post them so as to keep said persons from incurring your wrath, but from the show of public support, I would guess you have perhaps three people that agree with you.)

She's not flipping blame around; she's simply looked at all the facts (she's read all communications, including the ones I hadn't saved) and has made an opinion. Your attempt to discredit her is insulting only to <b>you</b>, because it shows that you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument and are forced to resort to ad hominem attacks to defend your indefensible position.

This was <b>after</b> the baby comment. Yet somehow it works its way into this argument? The day before this whole thing broke, you and I were talking about our online gaming future together! We have talked multiple times about Jenni and I moving to Oaks to rent your spare rooms. Your considered opinion, just two days before this started, was "that dave is not an asshole. I would even put that in writing and sign it." All the quoted text in the first part of this was enough to change your mind?

Either way, you're an extremely poor judge of character (by making friendly when I'm a true asshole, or calling me a true asshole when I'm trying to be a friend). So what makes you think your opinion on this is valid <b>now</b>? Suddenly you're a good judge of character?

<b>Tony</b>
I think Tony identifies with sycamore's unemployment because Tony, too, has been unable to find work. It's my contention that my comment about sycamore's unemployment was one of the motivating factors for Tony to join the discussion and admonish me publicly. (Notice how he calls me "David" in his post to the "Things you should do" thread, as a parent would address a child, even though he has never called me "David" before.) He identifies with sycamore because they have known each other longer, and because sycamore called him and brought him into this. I should have been smart and recruited Tony, but I didn't think this was going to be a big deal. And hey, why not attack the guy that's not around to defend himself? You sure do look like a champion now.

So here we are, and you are acting like a child with hurt feelings. You say to Jen that she is trying to "flip blame around" - and you're acting like you and sycamore are blameless! I have <b>apologized</b> to sycamore for hurting his feelings, and <b>he did not want to hear it</b>. What makes a man more than being able to say "I was wrong, and I am sorry"? To you, it's apparently calling names behind someone's back.

What it all boils down to, Tony, is that you are a 40 year old <b>boy</b>. You are, for whatever reason, mentally immature. You're smart, and so most of the time you can pass yourself off. But when you get really called on it, you resort to personal attacks instead of meaningful rebuttals.

As someone that really cares about you, I want to raise one last idea before I'm gone for good. You're not a very introspective person. You have a hard time really diagnosing issues with yourself. Your mental immaturity is one of them. I hate to say it, but this is where having a male role model in your life would have helped. You have suffered without it. And it's sad, because I do want you to succeed and find happiness. If you don't believe this is real or affecting your life, I don't think you'll need to look farther than your "soon-to-be ex" for evidence. And if you think that had nothing to do with you, you need to think again. People don't fuckin' suck. Some are good, some are bad. Most are in between. Saying they suck is just an excuse for your inability to have a meaningful relationship with most of them.

What this has shown me is that, like most of us, you're struggling to make it through life. You've got a long ways to go, Tony. I hope that you can start acting like an adult and find that happiness.

I can only hope that you'll take this to heart. A week ago, you probably would have. I know that some things have changed since then, but a lot of things haven't. When you're ready to start acting like an adult, maybe the number of friends you have will exceed three.

I'm really amazed that so little I've posted results in a shitstorm so large.

But I would like to take back the notion that you're a good guy. It's true, you are right - I was wrong. I admit it, I'm a terribly poor judge of people, and it turns out that my original opinion was wrong: you're a complete and total ass.

I definitely made the right decision not getting closer to you. You treat the people who are close to you like shit because it solves your own needs. Have a nice life.

"Not very introspective" funny. It is to laugh. You don't know me at all.

So wait, is dave back or not?

See, having read the above several times ... I still don't fucking get it.

And I'm the one here that actually has people skills. Okay, so they're primarily crazy-people skills, but you know what I mean.

Yeah..I also did a :confused: when I saw it...

Dude sure does talk a lot for somebody who's not here.

Ah yes, and one more thing:

Presenting this A-B as a "choice" is just more games I don't play.

I just call them like I see them, Nancy. And FYI, i roughed syc up pretty good on IM for not letting you up. And who gives a shit what i do and dont know about you and the vaunted past. What i know is what I see. You acting like a sissy, syc ignoring the problem, and toad flippin his lid.

the bottom line is this:

YOU quit

They're still here.


come back and stop being a cunt ( bruce told me to say that) ;)

Fuck damn shit. Crap. Fart bitch ass hell. This shit is giving me fucking Tourette's.

I'll resist the "you two are both cool so make nicey-nice." But I have some observations to share. Ignore them if you like.

Tony: I think you may need to remind yourself that though you mean to participate in discussions as an equal here, you are the Cellar Master. For one to publicly side against you is akin to siding against the community, so keep that in mind when doling out damning judgements against the people here. To declare a long-time, much-enjoyed Cellar contributor a "complete and total ass," seemingly in response to a single thread that didn't involve you directly, and seemingly as a complete 180 from your previous opinion, seems heavy-handed and misguided. If there is more to it than what is publicly visible, then you might consider making it all public, or keeping it all private... otherwise nobody knows quite what to make of it, and members here may learn to fear your judgement as irrational and unpredictable. And if you are dismissive of the previous statement, then you trivialize this community, which you built. Here, your comments weigh in heavier than everyone's else's. And they always will.

I respect the hell out of you Tony, not only for your insight and intellect, but for many of your actions which I have observed indirectly on the Cellar. I strongly disagree with some of the things you have posted regarding this whole mess, but it's worth noting that I do not intend to stop respecting you just because I strongly disagree with something you posted. If it started happening consistently, maybe. But when someone I respect and/or care about behaves in a way that troubles me, my first reaction is not to projectile-vomit the person from my life, but to say "What the hell, dude?" and try to understand where he/she is coming from. If it turns out that I am uncomfortable with where he/she is coming from, THEN the relationship is in trouble. But perhaps I'll learn in listening that I didn't have all the information, or was failing to see the situation from the other's point of view. But that's just me.

So... what the hell, dude?

Also, your comment of "Either you have to drop the practice of insulting people as a way of being close to them, or you have to accept *anything* they hand back to you" would have been best directed at both Dave and Syc... both use this practice. To insinuate that Dave is the only one of the pair doing ths misrepresents the situation. In fact, many would argue that Syc's initial comments about Dave's eye were much worse than Dave's later comments about Syc's unemployment... and Dave didn't even get offended about Syc's comments, as he explained later.

Dave: I can understand, if not condone, your reasons for leaving... from what I can see, it was a poor solution to a complicated problem. I saw the humor in the frowny face thing, but I can why others didn't. I was perplexed when some seemed to view your jabs at joblessness as worse than Syc's comments about your eye. Sometimes the "I can see both sides" position is a shitty place to be.

Yeah, I know you don't care if I condone your reasons for leaving. Nor should you... it was your choice to make and you know more about it than I do. But I think Red put it best... "the place you live is that much more drab and empty that they're gone."

I can't fucking believe it's not butter.

Dave was behaving like Dave ... this is why I'm having trouble seeing the point of contention, I guess.

(It's really about the lack of motherfucking pad gai, isn't it?)

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong.

This whole thing is a case of bullshit getting blown WAY out of proportion and the three idiots involved being too damn stupid to realize what a fuss they were making over nothing.

Instead you retards would say "I don't believe he's so upset over just a few lines" and then you're proceed to rant on and on and on about how he's practically the modern day antichrist.

Yeah I don't know any of you and I've only been on this board for a few weeks. Well maybe that’s exactly what gives me the clear view of this idiotic mess.

Dave:

You're a fucktard. Learn when to shut up. You don't have to have the last say in everything and it's alright if somebody wrongs you just once. Let this shit go. You don't need your apology accepted today. Can't you just let the guy sleep on it for a week maybe?

Also, you can't leave a community on a bad note and expect people to speak kindly of you. Don't come back just to post your "But I was right!" posts. As said previously. You don't always need to have a last say in everything. So come back or STFU.

Sycamore:

You're a fucktard. Dave claims that you two were 'friends' for years? Well fuck that. What kind of a friend doesn't accept a sincere apology? And over what? A bad joke? Big fucking deal. Friends are supposed to joke about each other without being insulted much. If the line is crossed, you say so and accept the apology. You don't make a huge deal out of it. That’s retarded. You don't go calling up your other friends and getting them invovled in the shit. That shows how immature you are and unable to deal with problems you managed to get yourself involved in. Next time somebody makes a joke you don't like, say so and let it go at that, otherwise you'll run out of friends damn fast.

Tony:

What the fuck? Next time you get called, tell them to work it out themselves. Anyone with half a working brain could tell that it was not their place to get involved. So Sycamore called...so what? Maybe he just needed to talk. You didn't have to get the whip out and lash Dave into submission with it. Dave's an asshole. I'm an asshole. Big deal. So Dave's being an asshole to Sycamore...whoopdie doo... Wasn't much of a big deal when he was being an ass to me. I didn't have much of a problem with him calling my gf stupid. That’s what assholes do. You expect that online when dealing with assholes. It's not a big deal. It's not taken seriously. The shit about Juju's baby was also fucked up. Who gives a shit about online insults/jokes especially when you know that they do not carry any real substance?

So here you have the case of 3 idiots blowing a stupid joke/insult way out of proportion. You can blame dave for leaving all you want...but fuck if he hadn't I bet you'd rant about who was right or wrong till the end of time.

Retards.

I've always deeply resented that "Cellar Master" situation and for a while I posted anonymously to try to get around it.

Perhaps I will again.

Beestie's Rx:

MF Pad Gai (a good start);
Hash brownies (mellow out the hard feelings);
Bud Light (crank up the "I love you, mannnnnn"); and
Respect (don't let it happen again)

I'm just sensing that the merciless knife-twisting as a means of coaxing everyone back to the table is (to say the least) less than effective so if everyone who has chosen to participate has gotten all the bile out of their system, maybe we can try something else.

Just one interested bystander's observation.

For the record...

I did not ask Toad or anyone else to say or do anything regarding the matter between myself and Mr. Ham.

Last week, I called El Sapo about hosting my website (which Dave hosted until I pulled it from his server last week). He asked why I wanted to move it, and only then did I say anything about the situation with Dave and me.

The bottom line is this: Based on various factors, I have decided that I should not be friends with Dave, and I've communicated to him as much. Initially, I wasn't ready to communicate with him after the blowup with his eye b/c well, quite frankly, I was really pissed off at him. Sometimes, you have to let the anger work through you.

I know that some people may not understand why I reacted the way I did to that or why I've made what some might consider an irrational decision...sometimes, people just don't see things on the same wavelength. But I can tell you that I've given it a lot of thought and have discussed it with a few peeps, and I think I've made the right decision.

This is all I'm saying about it here on Cellar. If you really care to know more, you're welcome to PM me and I'll give you the summary version. Other than that, I think it's time to let this shit go and move on.

would you like any help selecting a name??? I could talk to slang for you.....
....or would that defeat the purpose?

beestie, what else would you suggest? pumping sunshine up their asses? whining? threats? reward based coersion?

Or should we just accept that dave is gone and move on?

I'd really like to see him stay. I like him. So I'm doing what I can to force the little bitch to come back.....:)

Aaugggh!! Not MORE dummy accounts! Oh, where does it end?

Besides, I'll know it's you. The posts will be from 1-3 sentences, with extremely compact, witty insight.

that could describe bruce.....
....unless......

Utoad has really been bruce all along.....????


has anyone ever seen them together in the same place at the same time.....?????

Now that you mention it, UT wears glasses, and Bruce is always wearing that cape and blue tights....

(NOTE: I don't know if UT really wears glasses)

Yes.

Unless you want to go to full conspiracy mode and posit that UT hired someone to play bruce! :D

I've stayed out of the current train derailment because I don't know anybody involved well enough to have an opinion.

But I will say that I've hardly ever seen a sysop (if you'll pardon the archaism) who throws his weight around as little as UT has over the years. If he thinks somebody's being an ass (whether that opinion is or is not justified), I for one don't think he should restrain himself from expressing that opinion because he's afraid some people might feel he's lording it over us as The Cellar Master(tm).

You never, never, ever, have or will see me in tights. Ever. :p

Promises, promises. That's what you said about pink legwarmers, too... and how long did THAT last? A week?

But I thought YOU wore the pink legwarmers. You said they were a nice contrast to the Camaro.

Well you know, I'd be lying if I said I haven't worn pink legwarmers. Today. But if it makes you feel any better, I don't know how to finish this sentence.

"Let's go get out of these women's clothes, and back into our tights."
--Robin Hood: Men in Tights

hahahahahaha. good. lord.

Bruce and UT have been in the same place at the same time in separate bodies. We have pictures.

(and I know it wasn't a fake UT, since I met him many years ago.)

thanks for clearing that up, wolf. I was beginning to worry.

Not even if I ask really, really nicely and bat my eyelashes?


Edited for grammar.

Although it's true that no one person makes The Cellar™ I will miss Dave's ability to kick it up a notch (yeah, I'm comparing him to Emeril). I wish him nothing but the best.

Sorry, UT, but I discovered your little ruse long ago. I won't be fooled again!

Please don't make me do it in public.:blush:

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On the subject of the whole Dave/Syc/UT thing: Feh. That is all.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now on the subject of Master Toad, the Cellar God: bullshit. I realize I only post now and again based purely on my amount of free time, not quite a regular as much as an irregular, so to speak. But I've been here for a while. I'll admit the first time I had a real disagreement with UT I was a little nervous. Know what? There no negative repercussions. None whatsoever. I maybe even got more respect because I posted my point of view intelligently enough for serious discussion, against a guy that is known to be quite intelligent.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My point is that having UT as mod and regular poster is part of what makes the Cellar what it is. You don't have to worry about a thunderbolt crashing from heaven here. If UT has a problem with you, he'll kick your ass in the forums same as anyone else. He made his extreme dislike of Lovebugz pretty public, but didn't kick her, just tried to chase her off using mundane means available to anyone. Much like the anti-April campaign that is running currently. Point is, fear of Mod UT is misplaced, and jokes aside, another dummy account is not what we need right now