How's this for irony.
 

Looking for anyone that's got any experience with an H&K Mark23? In comparison to the USP? I know there's a fair few gun nuts here so someone must have some experience.
Not sure where to post it so I stuck it in here.

I own a H&K .45 USP and can tell you what I don't like about it, most of it being limited to its size when you carry, the amount of recoil, and the trigger pull required for double-action.

What I do like about it: it has a safety that I really like, the grip feels good (especially in relation to the slide release, etc), and the gun seems to have the ability to take quite a beating.

I know the Mark 23 is a hell of a lot more expensive, which is why I put it much further down on my list when I was looking.

Note on these: never load them with cheap, waterproofed ammunition.

Full size USP I assume from the size comment? (compact is pretty damn compact).

Hey, Jag, I thought the Swiss government just issued you (and every other Swiss male of military age) a weapon. What are you going to do? Start an insurgency over there?;)

I assume they would if I had done military service but that hasn't happened yet (and won't if all goes to plan). This is...a different matter.

Full size USP I assume from the size comment?

Ah -- sorry, no, this would be the compact. The USP compact is small, but not when you live in a warm climate and you have to figure out how to conceal carry. You can, but it isn't comfortable with a holster when sitting down. A lot of the issues I noted (recoil, etc) are specific to the compact and probably not to the full-size.

...and why is this ironic?

I've had many previous arguments that those with longer memories (1 Year+) here will know well in favour of gun control.

I was wondering on the recoil, I heard the full size USP is quite easy to handle.

I was wondering on the recoil, I heard the full size USP is quite easy to handle.

I would imagine it is a bit better than the compact as far as muzzle rise, etc. My biggest complaint about it is that the double-action (first shot, non-cocked) requires a pretty heavy trigger pull. It's enough that during the squeeze you'll move off target if you aren't careful.

Why did I purchase it, then? It was the only gun with a real safety that was in the affordable range. I'm very pleased with it, regardless, but I'm never as accurate with it as I am the 9mm Ruger. I don't get to practice with it as much, either, because of the cost of the ammunition. HKs are well known for their ruggedness, but they will not eat the cheap stuff as I stated above. I once went through all my ammunition at a range and decided to purchase some from the desk. They handed me a box of "Wolf .45 ACP" (cheapy stuff, out of Russia, manufactured by children, etc), which turned out to be a huge mistake. This stuff was so thoroughly gunked over with waterproofing that it rubbed off and built up inside the chamber. The result was that on the 20th or so round, the gunk caused the casing to jam hard into the chamber. The slide still had a millimeter to travel before being fully closed and it couldn't be pulled back because of the extractor holding onto the round. I suppose this might not be a problem limited to this specific model of firearm, mind you.

I was horrified when I saw the rangemaster attempt to use his "special technique" to fix it, which involved using a rubber mallet to try to drive the slide home. I haven't been back to that range since.

Fixing it required that I carefully transport the pistol home where I was able to rock the extractor out of place, remove the slide, and pop the offending round out with a screwdriver. Placing a call to H&K about it yielded laughter when I told them the manufacturer of the ammo, followed by a firm scolding that went something like, "...you bought a precision firearm and loaded it with WHAT? Sir, are you really certain you are in the correct mind to own a firearm?" Grr.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, why are you specifically looking at H&Ks and specifically the Mark 23 and USP? Just curious...

Jag loves to be coy with us. He thinks it makes him look cooler!

i knew you were part french

Jag loves to be coy with us. He thinks it makes him look cooler!

Really? Wow, what a jackass.

I don't know if you are fucking with us or not ,
I have NO experence with a HK M23 , but it is a full sized .45 cal , threaded barrel extention for a silencer , fittings for lights and or lazers , verry cool in my humble opinion , and i would LOVE to have one !!!!!

This is a set up...Jag is trying to coax Maggie on here only to pounce on her as soon as she posts...

This is a set up...Jag is trying to coax Maggie on here only to pounce on her as soon as she posts...

So what do guns have to do with it? Is this some kind of terminated relationship, an old enemy, or just something tossed in for the irritation factor that seems to be a requirement these days?

Easy there, Kitsune...I'm pulling your chain. :)

Maggie is an old-school Dwellar with whom Jag clashed regularly on issues such as gun control a couple of years back.

As far as what Jag is doing now...*shrugs*...perhaps he doesn't wish to share too much info. No biggie to me.

Oh, alright. Sigh.

Time for booze, then.

Man, you are a cranky son of a bitch!

;)

Maybe Jag's setting up an empire like Dr No or Goldfinger and wants to know what to issue his troops. Bet he's got Pussy Galore signed up.:)

Not playing coy, not fucking around. How about you take a break and remove the large, barbed pole from your arse UT. USP was put in their for comparison purposes only, HK based on advice of people with a shitload more experience than me. Primary reasons being extreme durability and ruggedness you talk about combined with thoroughness of testing. Basically, it keeps working no matter what you do to it. Tactical isn't a big factor, I don't believe you can purchase the decent silencer above board, HK laser sights and torches fit most models equally, tactical or not. Not cheap but for a good reason (the weapon itself).

As for military service I think it'd actually be a good thing to do but at this point I can't afford 6-9months for something non-essential that'll affect my ability to get things done.

Jag, if you want to stay close to the big money, you could join the Swiss Guard instead of the Swiss Army.;)

Man, you are a cranky son of a bitch!

I was cranky because the semester was ending and I was under the shadow of a term paper and final.

But for now, I weep with joy because its all over with. Check back with me in several months for another repeat episode of "Kitsune: cranky retard." It just might answer the burning question: Which will happen sooner, my graduation or the sun going super nova?

Just for the record...Maggie rarely if ever checks in here anymore.

There are too many new posts for her to keep up with and her life is kinda busy to use a chunk of it reading posts that may or may not interest her.

I talk with her on occasion and that's her take (paraphrased) on the State of the Cellar. She doesn't mention Jag at all.

Brian

Jag, you need a hand gun?

Jag, worry not so much over what it is, or what it costs, or what other people think is better than what ... try as many of your options out as possible before buying.

Of course, if your dealer is a fellow with a trench coat who works out of a back alley you may not be able to do this.

Except that it is probably safer not to know, I do wonder who the lad pissed off ...

Thankyou for some gooda advice wolf, I'd about given up on this thread =)

Oh and wolf, if I worried about all the people that would have good reasons to prefer me dead I'd be travelling in a tank convoy.

There's a difference between "prefer" and "actually want" ... because of my job I am on a few people's "actually want" lists. I take care to avoid them.

as do I.
At any rate, thanks to Switzerland's rather liberal gun laws (hell, I can wander in and buy an MP5/10) I've had a chance to try a fair few different models and brands, still leaning towards the Mark23 at this point. Might go to a practice session with some of the lighter submachineguns as well, looks fun.

Speaking of "prefer" versus "want" -- what do you actually want this sidearm for, Jag?