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-   -   Get ready to surrender your VCRs and DVD burners (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=6178)

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 12:41 PM

Get ready to surrender your VCRs and DVD burners
 
Things are getting to the point that all of the threads about the erosion of freedoms in America need their own forum. It would see a lot of activity these days.

The latest, introduced by one of freedom's toughest opponents, Senator Orrin Hatch, is the Inducing Infringements of Copyright Act (IICA). This new act seeks to criminalize not only copyright infringment, but anything which is capable of (not necessarily designed for) infringing copyrights, directly or indirectly. VCRs, DVD-Rs, iPod, file sharing software... all fall under this category. Theoretically, so would any website where one can download a file-sharing client. What's worse, this bill is seeing a lot of support from Republicans and Democrats alike.

The EFF wrote up a mock complaint against the Apple iPod, which would be a legitimate complaint under the IICA. Pretty spooky.

So why is it that the "rights" of a company and/or industry are more important than the individual? And where will the trend of outlawing anything which is capable of being used in some illegal way, in addition to many legal uses, stop? Will IRC chat and e-mail be made illegal, because people occasionally share music through theose mediums? What about Internet Message boards? IM clients? I know it's unlikely for any of those things to br criminalized in this way, but we're on a path towards having those things crippled and monitored in the name of copyright protection. Ugh.

Beestie 06-28-2004 01:04 PM

Orin Hatch is a complete idiot. And, he was caught red-handed running unlicensed software on his web server.

Fortunately, for every senile, paranoid bought and paid Senator like Orrin Hatch, there is a calm, reasonable sensible weigh-the-issues, consider-the-facts Congressman like Richard Boucher.

Senator [sic] Hatch also wanted to make it legal for the MPAA/RIAA to hack into your home PC and trash it (literally destroy it) if they thought you were downloading media files illegally - due process be damned.

Orrin Hatch, I believe with all sincerity, has lost his mind.

glatt 06-28-2004 01:07 PM

Disney, Sony, etc. have more money than you or I. They are not afraid to buy a politician or two hundred.

I don't know what the answer is.

Posting about the outrage on the internet is certainly the first step. We need a real Consumer's Union to fight these giants. Of course, Consumer's Union (TM) will probably sue me for trademark infringement for using their name.

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 01:26 PM

Sadly, it's mostly the 35-and-under crowd who download MP3s, burn their own mix CDs, use iPods, and share information on the Internet. None of the dinosours in the Senate care about that sort of thing. It doesn't affect them positively to preserve those rights, but it does (as in $$$) to discard them. The grandkids might whine, but a Senator can afford to buy the little rugrats all the DRM-crippled CDs they want.

So where's the problem? Oh yeah... it's isolated safely in the middle class. Whew, that was close.

Slartibartfast 06-28-2004 01:29 PM

If they ban all these 'potential' copyright infringement hardware and software products, they are also going to have to ban the photocopy machine because the same stupid 'logic' applies.

smoothmoniker 06-28-2004 02:39 PM

I'm about as big an intellectual property hawk as anyone out there. I believe in aggressive prosecution of those who copyright laws, and in any reasonable measure being taken by IP holders to protect the means of distribution (protected CDs, ACC codecs, whatever)

This is an untenable overreaching though. To ban something that is designed and built for legitimate purposes because it offers the possibility of illegal use smacks of prior restraint. I prefer the current method of determent, where companies hire subcontractors to flood the networks with corrupted and incomplete files, to make the illegal usage frustrating and time-consuming.

-sm

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
If they ban all these 'potential' copyright infringement hardware and software products, they are also going to have to ban the photocopy machine because the same stupid 'logic' applies.
Hey man, don't give them any ideas. Besides, Big Brother wouldn't ban the copy machine outiright, they'd just require the manufacturers to build in logic that checks anything you attempt to copy against a database owned by the Publishing Industry (PIAA?), and disallow duplication if it's a copyrighted work. Naturally the police would be dispatched to the location the copy machine reports.

Of course there are any number of valid reasons to copy a book you've legitimately purchased, but such rights aren't as important as the publishers' right to charge you inflated prices in an oligopy.

Yes, my words paint a ridiculous scenario, and I hope the sort of thing I described doesn't happen. But when it comes to the rights of the American people, a lot of things are happening today that would have sounded ridiculous ten years ago.

glatt 06-28-2004 03:26 PM

In related news, and this wasn't reported as widely :), Sen. Hatch has also introduced a new bill that outlaws potential drug paraphenalia. As a result, the sale and/or possesion of a metal spoon will be illegal. Plastic spoons will, however remain legal.

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 03:38 PM

Keep in mind that this is the same Senator who suggested that people who download copyrighted materials from the Internet should have their computers automatically destroyed. Doesn't that make you just want to give the man a big, wet, sloppy hug?

SteveDallas 06-28-2004 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
If they ban all these 'potential' copyright infringement hardware and software products, they are also going to have to ban the photocopy machine because the same stupid 'logic' applies.
Yeah but the difference (so the argument goes) is that a digital copy of a digital original is a perfect copy. When you photocopy something it's a less than perfect copy, and besides, if you're talking about a book, photocopies of all the pages are not as useful/valuable unless you have them bound.... etc. etc. etc.

Of course as H_P points out they'd do it if they could get away with it!

wolf 06-28-2004 04:19 PM

I don't know about yours, but my photocopier will three-hole punch things for me ...

Happy Monkey 06-28-2004 04:22 PM

If it was set up properly, ours would email me the document digitally, with perfect duplication after only one generation of analog to digital conversion.

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
I don't know about yours, but my photocopier will three-hole punch things for me ...
Mine staples.

Rainbows are pretty. I don't know why I shoot at them.

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveDallas
Yeah but the difference (so the argument goes) is that a digital copy of a digital original is a perfect copy.
OCR software can theoretically give you a perfect digital copy of the data the paper contains. It can, in fact, be used to produce a printout of BETTER quality with very little effort.

lumberjim 06-28-2004 04:55 PM

Honkey, can i borrow your email capable copier so i can send this senator a digital image of my ass doing a pressed ham impersonation?

Happy Monkey 06-28-2004 05:03 PM

Okay, I am a honkey, but there's no need to resort to that language! :p

lumberjim 06-28-2004 05:06 PM

it's just a contraction. you can call me uberjim if ya want. or lim, or Ljim or Lum or LJ. [cliche] just don't call me late for dinner[/c]

hot_pastrami 06-28-2004 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumberjim
it's just a contraction. you can call me uberjim if ya want. or lim, or Ljim or Lum or LJ. [cliche] just don't call me late for dinner[/c]
I like "L-Jim." It has a very "J-Lo"-ish quality which fits like a... glove.

lumberjim 06-28-2004 05:15 PM

yeah, that's right, hami.

SteveDallas 06-28-2004 05:36 PM

Well I didn't say it was a good argument.... but we all know what the real story is. The RIAA and the MPAA are behind this. They care about ipods and CD burners. They don't give a shit about photocopiers. The book publishers might, but they don't make as much money as the movie & record companies. I mean, anymore, they're poor-cousin subsidiaries of the media conglomerates.

wolf 06-29-2004 11:07 AM

Of course a large part of the issue here has to do with ease of transfer.

Couple clicks and you've got your CD on the hard drive, couple more they are in your portable MP3 device.

Copying books takes a damn long time, and unless you are lucky enough to have a stool the whole experience is spent on your feet, and unless you are entirely stealing resources (uh, I mean Borrowing) from your employer, the costs of photocopying even a smallish book are likely higher than just going out and buying the book to begin with.

hot_pastrami 06-29-2004 12:01 PM

Damn you Wolf, you're always one step ahead of me! :)

russotto 06-30-2004 12:33 PM

How to pirate a book

1) Buy one copy.

2) Send it to India

3) Have cheap labor re-typeset it.

4) Print it

Crimson Ghost 07-01-2004 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by smoothmoniker
To ban something that is designed and built for legitimate purposes because it offers the possibility of illegal use smacks of prior restraint.
-sm

Exactly.

Next thinig you know, the idjits in DC will ban cars because they are used in high-speed getaways, TVs will be banned because "suggestive content" can be viewed on them, paper will be banned because plots and plans can be written on them.......

The insanity never ends...............


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