Bill Cosby is fired up.
 

i heard about cosby's rant at the brown vs. the board celebration, but looks like he is not through.

this was reported in the AP

Cosby's Harsh Words
Friday, July 02, 2004

CHICAGO — Bill Cosby went off on another tirade against the black community Thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for struggling black men, telling them: "Stop beating up your women because you can't find a job."

Cosby made headlines in May when he upbraided some poor blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them. He shot back Thursday, saying his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black community's "dirty laundry."

"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other n------ as they're walking up and down the street," Cosby said during an appearance at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition & Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference.

"They think they're hip," the entertainer said. "They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

In his remarks in May at a commemoration of the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education desegregation decision, Cosby denounced some blacks' grammar and said those who commit crimes and wind up behind bars "are not political prisoners."


"I can't even talk the way these people talk, 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk," Cosby said then. "And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

Cosby elaborated Thursday on his previous comments in a talk interrupted several times by applause. He castigated some blacks, saying that they cannot simply blame whites for problems such as teen pregnancy and high school dropout rates.

"For me there is a time ... when we have to turn the mirror around," he said. "Because for me it is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps a person frozen in their seat, it keeps you frozen in your hole you're sitting in."

Cosby lamented that the racial slurs once used by those who lynched blacks are now a favorite expression of black children. And he blamed parents.

"When you put on a record and that record is yelling `n----- this and n----- that' and you've got your little 6-year-old, 7-year-old sitting in the back seat of the car, those children hear that," he said.

He also condemned black men who missed out on opportunities and are now angry about their lives.

"You've got to stop beating up your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you're (earning) minimum wage," Cosby said. "You should have thought more of yourself when you were in high school, when you had an opportunity."

Cosby appeared Thursday with the Rev. Jesse Jackson (search), founder and president of the education fund, who defended the entertainer's statements.

"Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson said. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."

Cosby also said many young people are failing to honor the sacrifices made by those who struggled and died during the civil rights movement.

"Dogs, water hoses that tear the bark off trees, Emmett Till," he said, naming the black youth who was tortured and murdered in Mississippi in 1955, allegedly for whistling at a white woman. "And you're going to tell me you're going to drop out of school? You're going to tell me you're going to steal from a store?"

Cosby also said he wasn't concerned that some whites took his comments and turned them "against our people."

"Let them talk," he said.

I wonder how long it will take before some other black leader calls Bill an Uncle Tom?

It *is* hard to look at one's own image in the mirror of self-reflection, and it *is* a lot easier to blame others for your own woes. I think his comments are right on, though. I compare it to my own situation when someone finally told me, "look, you're a drunk", and I actually got it and did something about it.

The truth fucking hurts. Didn't hurt ME though. I heard about this this morning, and I applauded...loudly!

My whole family would also be clapping and agreeing because we were ALL raised by "old school" black folk. Practically all of my relatives on both my Mom and Dad's side of the family were born at the tail end of the Depression Era and at the beginning of the 40s (as far as the adults; aunts and uncles). They all raised their kids the "old fashioned" way: rewarded if we did good, and the ass-beatdown if we got out of line. Where the neighbors got involved and told on your ass if they saw you doing something wrong. Where you had to be inside the house when the street lights came on and you could not play out of sight (or at least, yelling distance) from your house (and boy do I remember many days where my Dad would call me from the other side of the damn neighborhood and you had better be home within MINUTES!). When parents kept track of your progress at school, and went to pratically every PTA meeting (and you had to go with them!). Basically...when parents were parents.

It is sadly not like the "good old days" anymore (hm...sound familiar), and that's a shame because it only hurts the future generations of blacks.

Everything that Cosby has said has been "on point". Too goddamned bad if other blacks can't see that. They need to stop whining and start listening to what Cosby and countless others have been saying for decades now!

And I also wonder, Elspode, how many will see Cosby's remarks as "betraying" the "race". Such complete and utter bullshit.

I'd love to see/hear what Tavis Smiley, Dr. Cornell West, Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Micheal Eric Dyson has to say about all this.

looking at his comments in general, i think they could be applied to non-black americans as well. when did it become acceptable, or worse - admireable, to not speak intelligent english, to act like a criminal in training, etc...

Cosby will catch some flack for this but he is obviously a big man and can take it.

good job bill.

You know this really has nothing to do with nothing, but are you the only black on here (on at least a regular basis) Rho? Not tying it into this thread, but I just thought of it and was curious.

I believe she is. Saraax is black, IIRC, but she doesn't post that often.

Oh...there's also felinesarefine, who is interracial, but I think I scared her off.

This is the key, and as alluded to by others, this is not a racial problem...it is a universal problem. The black community may be manifesting some of the more objectionable outward signs of lack of involvement from the older generations, at least to the casual observer, but parenting is rapidly becoming a lost art...period.

We work hard at it, and we *still* have mondo problems at my house, so it is no easy task. However, my kids are smart, very polite to adults, and quite loving, so we must have done something right along the way.

Hmm, never heard of Saraax.

Don't really remember felinesarefine that much either, but with a username like that I figure we should thank you.

From where I sit it looks like all of you are black. Lettering, that is, on grey background.

I agree, but I think part of the point was so many were blaming whites for it.

I'm white (little european, little indian)but I was born a po black child.

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm blue too.

I'd really like to think that anyone capable of rational thought would have a hard time believing that at this point in history, but I suppose that denial is still a functional coping mechanism in today's world.

What you all did not know is that Bill Cosby is the real 'dark horse' candidate for Kerry's VP and this is his way of claiming his moderate credentials and getting some free publicity.

The announcement will be made next week.:king:

You mean because we took a whole race of people, kidnapped them, sold them into slavery, and purposely attempted to destroy any culture or sense of community they may have brought with them?

And because when we freed them we made promises for reparations in the form of land and equipment so that they could work themselves into our society but then withdrew the offer?

My European ancestors came here because they wanted to. While some may have deliberately assimiliated themselves, they did so by choice. Noone beat them for praying in their own religion, trying to educate themselves, or speaking in their native language.

Something similar was tried with native Americans, although it was a little more subtle since they were not technically slaves.

BTW, I do not think reparations are the way to go, since every single ex-slave is now dead, but let's acknowledge that the original problem is one that Americans deliberately created, and that we spent most of the 20th century in self denial over this and allowing segregation, de facto and de jure, to keep an entire class of people in a system of schools and jobs which were inferior.

Yes people need to meet us halfway, accept personal responsibility, and rebuild their own community ties and supports. But let's not kid ourselves - a big part of the problem is still with 'the system' and not with the people caught in it.

Wait...what? Are you serious? Entire generations (black, white and every other color) are being raised and encouraged to think of themselves as victims. And it ain't like it's gradually getting better.

Did I misinterpret your post?

What's with the "we" shit? I didn't do a fucking thing and am getting tired of being blamed for it.

The system is fucked I'll grant you that, but I think blacks are getting screwed equally along with the rest of the have nots.

Originally posted by richlevy Not to split hairs or anything but I'm not sure "we" is the pronoun I would have chosen and secondly, as I understand it anyway, the slaves brought to America were rounded up and sold to slave traders by other African tribes (i.e., tribe A conquers tribe B and sells them to slave traders). Again, just clarifying and not contesting the point of your post.

I have heard the same thing about the African tribes. By the 'we', I meant that we as American citizens have some responsibility for America's past.

Almost every group in America has experienced discrimination. Most groups are or were able to overcome it. Early in the 20th century, medical schools had quotas for Jewish doctors. Now the Jewish doctor has a positive social image.

Asian americans also have built a reputation for academic excellance.

However, these groups were all willing immigrants. While some were treated brutally, they were still allowed to keep their cultural identities intact.

African Americans are the only immigrant group brought to this country against their will. This does not absolve anyone of personal responsibility, but it does put many of the problems in historical perspective and point to areas of culture and community which must still be rebuilt. I still remember the tape of Texaco executives laughing at the celebration of Kwanzaa, but that celebration demonstrates an attempt to manufacture culture.

If the idea of a manufactured holiday seems artificial, remember that Flag Day, Memorial Day, and Mother's Day were all created in this century to celebrate concepts. While Memorial Day is slightly tied to a historical date, the others were wholly manufactured.

Kwanzaa was an attempt to build a unifying tradition and sense of community. It has it's own set of principles and tries to reestablish what was destroyed.

Again, this is not a complete excuse, but the truth is that a whole class of people was victimized. Even refugess from genocide and holocaust can settle here among communities of their own. However, if enough people have lost all connection with their past, there is no community to make up that loss. Coupled with active pressures from outside, this can set up a pretty high barrier to stability.

People talk about conspiracies, but a lot of that is simply community. In some cultures, if someone wants to start a business, extended family and friends can loan the money to do this. This kind of bond is hard to rebuild when destroyed. And if enough of the middle class has been destroyed, there is noone left to lift up the working poor.

There are unique problems, and noone has come up with a good solution. The only change has been targeted drug laws which are turning larger and larger percentages of young males into felons.

So its not being paranoid when someone really is out to get you.

Uh...maybe? I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in order for people to continue to blame Whitey for their woes requires denial of their own responsibilities in whatever state of affairs in which they find their lives.

Example...if one chooses to act like a gangsta, one should probably take responsibility for the fact that an executive position with IBM is probably out of the question. That's not racism...that's realism.

No one forces anyone to posture, pose and generally behave in a deeply antisocial, "fuck you" manner. If one chooses to do so, one probably requires some measure of denial of reality in order to continue in that mode.

Further example: I would have loved to remain drunk and stoned for years to come, but I disliked the notion of living under bridges and dying at 35, so I didn't. I now have long hair, and I fully realize that this fact probably limits my potential for promotion and better income. It is a choice I make, and I own it. I don't blame society for not looking beyond my hairstyle and recognizing the person beyond it.

how many slaves did you kidnap and import, rich? unless i've forgotten i haven't done it even once.
yes, i know that is being sarcastic, but really, i myself, refuse to hold guilt over something done generations ago. it is very important that we be aware of the past, but NOT live in the past. the more we focus on the evil that was, the less we are able to move forward. the majority of americans at that time didn't own slaves and most of our ancestors came to america after slavery was abolished.

racial issues will never go away entirely because there will always be ignorant people, but as long as someone is willing to throw "you're great,great grandfather may have owned mine" then we can't really move forward. evil happened, move on. make sure it never happens again. that is what marriage counselors say to their clients - once something has been brought out into the open and dealt with, it is not beneficial to bring it back up every time there is a disagreement. if it is a good rule of thumb for intimate relationships, then it probably is for the larger society as well.

back to cosby's original statements - i think he is trying to say that the black community fought hard to get to a certain point and now there are some individuals who are actually slipping backwards while blaming it on the white man.
in his last couple of speeches he has said that black americans fought to gain access to education, to be able to live where they want, to be able to work side by side with whites. what he is complaining about is the individual who wears their poverty, unwillingness to speak intelligible english, desire to stay in projects, inability to hold a solid job, and number of illegitimate children as a badge of honor - a "community" thing. am i missing the point? i think all he is saying is that these are problems that need to be fixed, not things to be proud of.

i think the same thing holds true across racial lines. too many people in america today are searching for a way to be a victim. we couldn't possibly be to blame for our own failures, could we? it must be the white man, the rich man, the republicans, the democrats, the ______'s fault, not mine - they are just holding me back. i think he makes a very valid point for us all.

Slavery still exists today...it's just not as overt as it used to be.

It's plenty overt in some parts of the world. Civilization is a pretty thin veneer.:3eye:

Well yeah, but I'm referring to the US in this case.

In that I completely agree. First of all, disgust with the system or not, everyone eligible should vote. Just the act of going to the voting place and voting, even for Mickey Mouse, is an act of citizenship.

What I disagree with is conservatives, especially those born to wealth, who say all debts have been paid and anyone who has a problem is completely responsible for their situation.

That is bullshit. We as a nation have to confront our legacy with African Americans the same way we had to confront our legacy with Native Americans and Japanese Americans. Pretending that everything was fixed the moment the Civil Rights Act was signed is as silly as writing a $20,000 check out to every descendant of a slave.

In Judaism there is actually a prayer thanking G-d for not making us women . While we have never had one to thank G-d for making us black, a majority of people in the US would agree that all things being equal, having black skin at birth limits the range and height of opportunities.

Would Reagan have been president if he had been born as a black man? There are certainly opportunities for black conservatives, but who believes that there is no ceiling?

I'm in the middle on this one. I believe that reparations and treating adults like children is a terrible policy. I also believe that pretending that barriers do not exist and that the United States has discharged all obligations is delusional.

I agree with Cosby. If people are backsliding into self pity, then they need to get off their asses. The most anyone should hope for is to be met halfway.

ok, you let me know what my debt is and i'll gladly pay it. i'm not sure how to do the math, so please help.

-i'm 30, so i was born after the civil rights movement had its peak.
- i'm a mix oc scottish, irish, swedish, and cherokee.
-i grew up in a lower middle class home in a union town. in the early 80's when the factories shut down my dad worked on a farm in exchange for meat. ( there were no jobs available since everyone worked for the factories before the layoffs) if my dad hadn't gotten his settlement from the malpractice suit for losing sight in one eye we wouldn't have had ANY money. that is probably worth a deduction somewhere.
-i got my first real job at 15 and have been working ever since
-i went in the USAF at 17 so i could go to college.
-i worked 3 jobs all the way through college because i didn't qualify for any other student aid due to my GI bill. i finished my bachelor's in 3 years.
-i was pissed after college that my bachelor's only qualified me for a $24k/year job, but i took it.
-i have busted my ass every day to make sure i stood out from the pack.
-as i explained due to an insurance foul up i paid for my wife's entire pregnancy out-of-pocket because i made more than $30k that year and didn't belong to a minority group.
-now i am a successful financial advisor with a nice (not exorbitant) income.

i don't list these things because i want sympathy or respect. i am probably no different than most of you - we all have challenges in life; that is what makes success so sweet when you achieve it. i got where i am because i was blessed with good parents who instilled in me a solid work ethic and i have worked hard to make sure that i am in the right place at the right time to capitalize on my experiences. Not because of the color of my skin. there have been many times where i didn't get jobs or material things that i wanted - but that is life, to blame it on someone (black, yellow, brown, purple people, rich/poor people... they are all just scapegoats) we are responsible for our own actions and decisions.

tell me - what exactly do i owe? and to who?

$300. payable to Lum Berjim. 10% penalty for payments recieved more than 16 days past the due date. we thank you in advance for your prompt payment, and if you have already mailed your payment, please ignore this invoice.

In the US? horseshit.

Let's not belittle the atrocities of slavery by trying to redefine the word. There may be poor working conditions, there may be people trapped into a lifestyle of poverty because of few educational options, there may be people who have limited potential in life, there may even be people who have difficulty getting work from a bigoted manager.

But these things are not slavery. No one runs away from an employer and is arrested and forcibly returned to that employer as property by the Supreme Court. No one has their child taken by their employer and sold at auction to another employer.

There will always be cheap and ready labor available for menial work, and there will always be those who call it unjust and abusive. Let’s be real here. That’s a far cry from the institutionalized atrocity of slavery.

-sm

From Merriam-Webster:

1 : DRUDGERY, TOIL
2 : submission to a dominating influence
3 a : the state of a person who is a chattel of another b : the practice of slaveholding

No, this isn't the 1850s anymore, but slavery still exists in other forms as I see it. And it even exists to a degree in the old-school way, e.g. people that come here that have to pay off their trafficker.

"The slave thinks he is released from bondage only to find a stronger set of chains."--Trent Reznor

slav·er·y Audio pronunciation of "slavery" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slv-r, slvr)
n. pl. slav·er·ies

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2.

• A. The practice of owning slaves.
  B. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.

3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
4. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.[/list]
The government considers itself the "owner" of us. It does so by claiming it can tell us what to do with our bodies, minds, and lives. Buy claiming it has any authority to tell people whom they may marry, what medicines they may take, whom they may have sex with, etc.

Also, slavery has always been the forceful taking of the fruits of someone's labor against their will. That is EXACTLY what income taxation is. It's the forceful taking of the fruits of our labor without our consent and against our will. If you don't think it's forceful, try not paying it and guys with guns will show up to take you away.

Most people in America work for 5-6 months as a slave to the U.S. Government.

Nobody who is alive today owes anything ot people who are the decendants of slaves. Every race has been enslaved at some point in history. How far back should we go? 200 years? 500? 1000? 2000?

Christ I agree with just about everybody in this thread, and that's kind of weird.

Still, damn good point tho SM.

Ah, but you have a choice. You can stop working and let the Gumint support you. Slaves have no choice, except death.;)

No, I have no choice either. If I don't work, I die. I will not accept money stolen from others by the government.

I own myself and my labor and it is mine to do with as I please. Nobody else on earth has any claim to it. I may sell some of my labor to someone else which is what I do if I take a job. The government is not entitled to any of what I earn. And whether or not working is a choice doesn't change that fact.

Rights and priviledges are opposites. A right is something you don't need permission to do. Selling my labor to whomever I choose is a right. Keeping all of what I get in exchange for my labor is a right.

Taxing income can never be a legitimate governmental power because we as individuals do NOT have the right to take one persons income to pay for the healthcare, education, charity, etc. of another person and we may therefore not give that power to government.

This brings up the question of whether or not government has the legitimate authority to tax at all. And to this question, the answer is yes. The government may make taxes but may not tax our rights or our income.

The government may create roads, and tax those who use the road. Or tax people who import goods, or use certain services, etc. But it may not tax our rights such as selling our labor in exchange for money. That is like taxing people for breathing, or thinking, or praying.

Oh. You mean like WalMart?

Let me just respond by saying that richlevy said just about everything that I wanted to say but in a better tone. ;) I was about to break my promise of not discussing black culture/issues with other whites because it is getting to the point of madness trying to explain anything to half of them. Sorry if that "offends" anyone here, but it is what it is. I'm getting too damned old and impatient to be talking to grown adults that seem to want to "understand" but when "we" give an answer to questions, they are picked apart and underminded, so I say, what's the damned point? Plus, I just don't need the extra stress. :p Most of the time, I say if you want to understand black people, then ask black people, but sometimes...I just don't know anymore.

Oh and blue: I think I'm the only black here that posts on a regular. If there are any more, I don't know about them.

However, I will contribute this. It is a transcript of an interview with Tavis Smiley and Dr. Henry Louis Gates. I think I've posted this before, but it bears repeating as far as any "explaination" is concerned, and Dr. Gates expresses himself so well, IMO. Enjoy.

Transcript of the Tavis Smiey with Dr. Henry Louis Gates discussing his documentary, "America Beyond The Color Lines".

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/...nscript.html#2
*Scroll down past the transcript of Al Sharpton (refrain please!) to get to the transcript of Henry Gates*

Other links to explore:

Dr. Cornell West: on Discrimination
http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/west.redis.discr.html

Tavis Smiley's interview with Bill Cosby (the first round of comments in May 2004):
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/...nscript.html#1

Michael Eric Dyson Commentary: Cosby's Comments (audio)
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1912340

That's a choice.

Well, I scrolled past Sharpton (I really read it:blush: ) and came up with Colin Powell and Dr Gates.

Colin Powell: Got to get to our young people and tell them they can be successful. We have got to get to our young people and tell them Rosa Parks did not ride in the back of a bus and Martin Luther King did not die so you could call young girls bad names, so that you could act like a fool, so that you could put stuff up your nose, or that you could stick up somebody. Now, that is not acceptable. We've come too far to self-limit ourselves. So let me not hear any excuses about why you don't want to go to school or you go to a bad school. We all went to bad schools.

Gates: And what people say is that the problems are both institutional, or structural, on the one hand--meaning slavery for three centuries; a century of de jure segregation, right; institutional racism--but the problems are also behavioral, attitudinal. Nobody makes you get pregnant when you're 16. Nobody makes you not do your homework. Nobody makes you drop out of school. We need a Marshall Plan for our cities, like the National Urban League calls for every year. If we can rebuild Iraq, which remains to be seen, why can't we rebuild our inner cities? We need a federal jobs program to give people hope in the system again, but at the same time, we need a revolution in attitudes among our own people. We need to value education the way we did in the '50s. Being educated was the blackest thing you could be in the '50s. Look, we liked Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but that wasn't Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. They weren't on the same level in the community as Thurgood Marshall and Dr. King were or Mary McLeod Bethune. We had our values straight. You know, we understood what was important, and what was important was education. If we got education, that was firing a bullet straight into the heart of George Wallace or Bull Connor or Orval Faubus. And now, Tavis, I read a result of a poll that was published in Washington a couple of years ago, inner-city black kids in Washington. It said, "List things white." You know what the top three were? Getting straight As in school, speaking standard English, and visiting the Smithsonian. If anybody had said that when we were growing up in the '50s--First of all, your mother would have smacked you upside your head, and secondly they would checked you into a mental institution. This is killing our people.

It sounds to me like they're both saying the same thing as Bill Cosby.:)

Professor Walter E. Williams of George Mason University says It's not my fault.

Great link. Dr. Gates really nailed it. I just wrote a long response, but the Cellar ate it.

In short, I believe that if the class divide has really grown so great within the black community, then at least some of the effort needs to come from the community itself.

As a taxpayer, I believe that my responsibility is to pay for decent education for every child in this country. Changing attitudes towards education and providing mentoring to the next generation is something that needs to be addressed internally.

I agree with Lookout. I'm not part of the "we", because my father and all his ancestors are born and raised in the British Isles, my grandmother on my mom's side was first generation American from (then) Czechoslovakian (now Croatian) decent, and my grandfather was German.

How did I oppress the black man? How did my parents oppress the black man?
Answer is: ding ding ding! They didn't. I don't owe anyone anything except my family. And taxes.

So when I hear the cry about oh! I am so oppressed!! I feel like slapping them, just for the reasons the Cos spelled out. Everyone has an opportunity to be successful. My exhusband was born and raised in Detroit, started at McDonald's at 16 and graduated high school, was forced to drop out of college due to appendicitis, worked his ass off in the Air Force, retires in 3 years as a Senior Master Sgt., and while he isn't "well off", he's certainly not "oppressed".

You're only as "disadvantaged" as you choose to be. Instead of playing the victim role in Detroit, he cared about his education, cared about his life, and went out and did something with it. No, he'll never be president, he'll never be a senator, but that's because he doesn't want to be. Oppression is a mentality.