A Major work decision to make
 

hi.

I got a call the other day from a guy that used to work in finance here when i was the sales manager, offering me an interview with a strong reccomendation for a job doing finance at the store he now works at. ( in NJ) They sell about 2 1/2 times as many cars as we do each month, but there are 2 1/2 finance guys. he mentioned a figure that is more than 150% of what i'm making now.

The downside is that the store is twice as far away as my current 40 minute ride. They also work more hours because they are so busy. He got out at 10pm on Saturday. I got out at 5pm. They sold 28 cars, we sold 6.

I could use the dough, and this place has been slipping of late. I'm well liked and respected here. been here for 6 years. like everyone........guh.

I'm going to go see him tomorrow night and interview, I guess. Everyone I talk to about it says hell no.....it's not worth it.

I keep thinking about all that money, and that i already work shitty hours, get home after my kids are in bed most nights, so what's the difference?... AND i'm not making enough $$. Every year of my working life, I've been able to make more than the previous year. This year should break the streak.

a lot of it depends on what I see in the interview........

i'm buggin.

i've been in the car biz before - my theory is that if you find a store that doesn't make you want to eat a bullet ride that puppy for all it's worth. that being said though, you would be afool not to take the interview. at least check the joint out.
the hardest thing about that business is the hours away from family. there were times i wasn't home before 1am, just to get a couple of mini's. if it means more time away from the fam - is it worth it? i'm assuming moving closer is not something you are considering? you said that you aren't making enough$$. in the end i guess the answer lies in a) are you truly not making enough money? or b) are you just not making as much as you'd like?

i think you'll know after the interview. listen to what they've got and spend some time talking to the guys who've been there for awhile. the floor salesmen are always willing to dish the negative side of the store.

good luck and keep me posted.

I vote no f-ing way. I worked 6 months going to a place 2 hours away. Every morning when I got in the car, my soul was sucked away. It was horrible. And I swear, any extra money I made during that period went right to stuff I bought justifying it because I thought it would improve my crappy life.

And I bet this place is more than an extra 40 minutes. Most places are.

See, I bet you could just get a 20% raise just by putting yourself out in front of all the big dealerships that are closer and where there's been a lot of development for new customers. I bet they have people they would like to get rid of in favor of someone intelligent and if you put yourself in front of them they would go for it.

i had considered that. there are a couple of big stores closer....i should have been looking at that already.....this is a timing thing, i guess.....this is an opportunity right now. Bank reps tend to network for guys that want to move, or dealers that are looking to replace someone. Finance people don't move around nearly as much as salesmen or even salesmanagers, so openings are less frequent. then all of the sudden, there will be a shakeup, and a lot of people move to different stores....kind of like musical chairs.

i wasnt even thinking seriously about leaving here, but now.......every stupid thing that happened today grated a little worse.

it's in Cherry Hill, NJ...I've never been there. I would be fighting traffic each morning on the way in. That is one of the major cons......

this is brutal.

Be sure to tell them you had your tubes tied and you wont be taking any maternity leave.

i'm new here, and still a relatively young punk, but for my two cents worth i'd say definitely no.

i used to work a job that was an hour and fifteen minute commute. it was awful. i spent all my free time worrying about my free time, effectively making it impossible to enjoy it. to top it off, it made me the most angry, agressive driver ever. the gas prices right now even make it worse.

everyone says this, and sometimes it's hard to see the truth of it, but nothing is more important and valuable than your time, for yourself and with your family. over 150% sounds like a lot of money, i'll admit, but i'd say unless there is something specific you are trying to put cash away for (something big, and life-altering) it's not worth it. longer commute + longer hours + higher pressure work environment? no way. i'd definitely vote to try and find something different closer to where you are right now. one positive thing generated by this, though, is that this opportunity will get you thinking about change. change almost always has some good facet to it.

hey LJ - out of curiosity is this a local dealership or part of one of the big boys? for that matter, are you with one of the big chains now?

reason i ask is that, for me, i would rather cut my left nut off with a pocket knife than work for Tex Earnheardt or either of the Larry's. maybe it is different there, but those places are full of the bad Juju

What do you think Jinx?

You didn't mention (I don't think) if you had ever been in the finance end of the business before. If this is a surefire opening to the finance end, it might be a smart long term career move. I've known a couple of finance guys in the auto biz, and they did *very* well for themselves.

Paying dues for a major career move is a much bigger deal and far more worth the investment of time than simply changing to a dealership with higher volume. This could be a move that will open many more, and better, doors.

Ok, I'll play devil's advocate here: I know nothing about your financial situation, but all other things being equal, a 50% raise for my family would mean we could move pretty easily. If that neighborhood is selling that many more cars, does that perhaps mean it's a nice enough neighborhood to live in?

That doesn't, however, take care of the longer-workday issue, for which I have no answer.

in arizona most of the guys duke it out to get to the sales desk. out this way salesmanager is usually the progression after f&i, but it may be different there.

I think he should go talk to them.

Hey, look what a brief googling turned up...

http://www.cherryhill-nj.com/

Yeah that would be more than 40 minutes extra.

If you are already feeling bad about your hours, then you will feel much worse in the new job, even if you are well compensated financially. The suggestion that others have made that you move closer to the new job is a good idea if the local community is one that you and your family would be happy living in - a disaster if it isn't. Living close to work certainly makes longer hours easier to take. Why? Because at the end of a long day you will be able to say "I'll be home soon", rather than having to look forward to a long drive. A long trip after a long and tiring day is a real killer.

Life is a gamble. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and take your chances.

Cherry Hill is a high rent neighborhood. It's also high traffic as is every damn inch 'tween here and there. Maybe 40 minutes on a good day, but they'll be few and far between.
Els, he's finance manager now.
Maybe this new place sells what Jinx really wants to drive. :biggrin:

A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly, he picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls.He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded with a unanimous "yes."

"Now," said the professor, " I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things-your God, family, your children, your health, your friends, and your favorite passions-things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, and your car. The sand is everything else-the small stuff.

"If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued, "there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and fix the disposal."

Take care of the golf balls first, the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

Watch your prorities Jim, it's easy to fuck up. Believe me. ;)

OH SHIT !!! bruce does it again !!!!!!!
Well said sir , WELL SAID !!!!!!!
Seriocly , more hours + more pay only meens you have less time to enjoy the important things . but the gubbment shure enjoys the hell out of your money .

i've always loved that one bruce.

i had a heartstopping moment though. would taking the new job mean that you would spend less time in the cellar??? cause if it does, thenNO F'ING WAY, MAN!!!

It seems to me that you already know in your gut that you don't want to do this. Ultimately, let your gut decide and not your checkbook or visions of zero balances on all the credit cards or [insert short-term financial goal here].

So: Take the interview. Talk to jinx. Think it over. Make the call.

If nothing else, there might be room for your current employer to sweeten your current deal.

My experience with high-paying positions is that they want too much in return. Don't undervalue what you have to give up to get it. Insert Bruce's post here. Money ain't everything. Then again, if its easy then take it.

Last thought. What would your kids tell you to do? Once you make the decision, will you look forward to telling them or be anxious about telling them?

lookout: currently in a single d/ship with a distant sister store, the other place has at least 2 sisters in Pa, possibly more in NJ, I'm sure i'll find that out tomorrow.

From my experience, the F&I guy is lateral to the salesmanager. just a different path. I've switched back and forth a good bit.

yes, it would definitely mean much less time in the cellar. At the pace they go, I doubt i'd even be able to lurk much from work, and I'd be there a lot. And when I finally got home, I'd be either wiped out, or taking care of things i'd been putting off......

bruce:

thanks. do you have any cool analogies that praise the big paycheck?...just to be fair about it, ya know....

Spode: you prick, aren;t you paying attention?! how many times have I forcefed wolf the fact that I don;t sell the cars anymore?


south:

there are actually a few things i'd like to sock some dough away for. And I'm sure jinx could come up with a thing or two if pressed ;)

Clod:
yeah, we talked about possibly moving slightly closer. It sounds cliche, but my kids' school is really close to us here, and it is relatively unique, so we don;t want to get real far away from it....plus, chester county rules.

UT:
you know where i live. about how long do you think it would take, realistically?

blues:
yeah, I used to work at denny's, and rode 50 minutes home from wyomissing to coatesville..(usually on a motorcycle or in a hoopdie, though, to be fair....after a rough 12 hour shift, that ride was murder. good point. the ride to the interview will seem short because of my mood.....gotta think about leaving there at 11:30 pm ( which has happened where I work now) getting home at 1 am, having to be out the door by 7:15 to get back to work for my 3rd 12hour shift in a row. blech.

then LJ, i'm sorry to say that even if they were offering a $100K base salary, we can't let you do it. think about the cellar, man!

If you get on the Schuylkill from the turnpike you are at least 1:15 away at that point. Worse at certain times. Better at other times; at 1am it can be 0:40. Maybe you would have a better time going south of the city but you still have to get past a load of S Jersey to get to Cherry Hill.

Don't do it man! It will truly truly suck. Try it at rush hour when you would be driving.

LJ - Do you own your own house? I mean if it's that much better maybe after a few months you could move nearer, good solution all round no? I say at least go to the interview and check it out.

Depends what you want.

Money would bring you more choice.

But choice means shit.

All you need is love, food and water - which I believe you have.

All depends on your priorities.

Definately do the interview. There's no harm or cost in that.

For the rest of it.

Pros: More money

Cons: Longer commute, Longer hours, Busier hours.

Does that summarize it?

1) I'd make darn sure how much more you'd be making. Make sure the gain will be worth the pain. How about taxes? You'll be working in NJ and living in PA, right? Will that take a slice?

2) Do you like to work? Are the longer, busier hours going to be tough to take for you?

3) Have you planned your career? No matter what kind of work you do, you should have a vision of where you want to be in 5 & 10 years. Does this move fit in with what you want for your career and your life?

4) I once worked in management for a year. It was awful. I hated it. I was very glad to get back to programming. However, the salary bump I got from going to management has stayed with me since then. So the year of pain was worth it in the long run. And I learned that management doesn't suit me.

5) Remember to account for the element of risk. It is always a risk to change positions. Have a plan B. What will you do if you take the new position and it just doesn't work out?

Hope some of this is helpful.

The commute would suck ass.

You would be going into New Jersey. (that would kill it for me right there)

You would probably end up moving. Do you want to leave (where you are now)?

What would the impact on the curtain monkeys be ... are you willing to spend less time with them because of the long longer hours and longer commute?

Ask above question regarding Jinx.

Do you want to work for a large dealership that probably turns over staff as often as it does cars?

If you PM me the name of the dealership, I have a friend who used to work in car sales in NJ and I'll see if I can get you any "inside dirt."

Can you utilize the offer they present you as a means of squeaking out a wee bit more from your current employer?

Irony Alert: A local car dealer told that story on the radio every morning for about 6 months!
Advice: To me time would be the deciding factor. Pete did a travel job for a while, huge bucks... we were miserable. She was supposed to have a 4 day work week. That never happened due to airport issues. Check out those local dealers if you need a change. good luck man, you can handle it whatever you do.

thaks for all the advice, everyone. you all make good sense. the hours and pace are not a big problem for me...i'm pretty resiliant. this is going to come down to that awful awful drive vs. great big gobs of cash. hell, maybe they'll hire someone else, and this will just be a wake up call. i'm thikning that even if i just stuck it out there for a year, i'd be able to put enough away to have a nice cushion......but .....i wouldnt have time to look for a new job while i worked there!

getting ready to go see them...willl let you know how it goes!

good luck - i recommend you wear a polka dot zoot suit so that they know you put all of your serious energy into making them gobs of money.

Well, you would be able to pay back that loan faster. You know, the one your getting to buy that great gift for Jinx's birthday this Saturday. :yelgreedy

Well, here's a little wrinkle:

Unbeknownst to my friend, ...we'll call him Mike, as that's his real name....Ed had already hired an F&I person.

He needs a salesmanager though.

That actually sounds even better than F&I, if marginally less rewarding financially. It would still be A major, major increase. And less hours. The F&I guy is always the last to leave, along with one of 4 salesmanagers. so, once or twice a week, i might get stuck there exceedingly late. and they close early friday night. so.....on the schedule, it would work out to less than i work here. granted that they put alot of extra time in, i'd most likely work the same or maybe a little more. It comes back to the ride in. and then it comes back to the pay.

I liked Ed. He's a cowboys fan. How sweet is that?

He seemed very honest, which is something Mike had said about him before. This is a high volume, well advertised, growing store, and the salesmanager path leads to General Salesmanager, leads to General Manager, Leads to Partner to Dealer Principle/owner/millionaire.

Having F&I experience, and salesmanager experience is a plus. This job would look very good on a resume. I get to pick from a whole new set of cars to drive as a demo. ( ive tried all the jeeps, and chryslers that were not demo exempt)

I could stay where i am in what i see as a shrinking dealership, or i could reach out and grab the rope tow. A big store like that can be intense when it's busy, but the organization methods he described seem to make a deal of sense, and it should be just like where i work at a busy time.

The big difference between a salesmanager and F&I is that, during a deal, the salesmanager lives in the moment, chipping away at the prize until he gets it , signs off, and lets the f&i guy and the salesman put it all together. You are the exertER of the pressure, not the exertEE, as you are in finance. In finance, the salesmanager may get a customer to say yes to buying the car, but until the approval is secure or assured, they dont really have a deal. You can imagine that the salesman and the salesmanagers want the f&i guy to be good at hs job, and get the difficult deals done. That can be pretty rough sometimes.

So, less pressured job, less hours than expected, still considerably more do-re-mi, and who knows what other perks i can negotiate with them if they want me. He offered a second interview if I wanted to go further...basically meaning admitting that I wanted the job...., and asked that I call him by 1 PM tomorrow to let him know, as he's going out of town for a couple days, and wants to at least schedule it by then. He mentioned a few other candidates, and implied that i was among the top two (I did the same thing when looking for an assistant....it's like fishing). So I need to make up my mind by then. To be honest, and at risk of jinxing myself, I have to say that I want to do it.

another con is that wolf could call me a car salesman, and I couldnt really argue with her. I'd actually be worse......I'd be that guy behind the desk like OZ. Everyone hates that guy.

I'm going to drive there during rush hour, tomorrow, just to make sure i can tolerate the ride ( which, btw, would only be in traffic 3 days a week). It took me just about 1 1/2 hours to get home, and i took a stupid way. ( and it rained so goddamn hard, i had to go slow for a good 20 minutes......you know, when it rains so hard, it might as well be snow, and the wipers dont work fast enough, and the trucks are heaving walls of water aside, and the giant thickwhite bolts of lightning are flaring. wow. it was awesome. my hands are sore from the deathgrip i had on the steering wheel.

That sounds great LJ! I hope you will be shouting drinks all round, to celebrate! Those of us too far away from PA will have to supply our own. I'll toast you in spirit, at least. :beer:

Damn ... so you'd be the guy that the guy I end up talking to always has to "check with"?

Could be cool indeed.

Good luck to you!

you know LJ - if you don't have to sacrifice too much time from jinx and the rug lizards it sounds like an excellent opportunity. i don't know what it is like there, but i know my time in the car biz didn't require me to do that much real rush hour driving so the greater distance may not be that bad.
as you said, a real resume booster, and much desired cash...
it would be awful hard to pass up - i don't think that i would.
so good luck with it, and keep us posted.

You haven't addressed the real issue... Will you be able to post from work?

That's awesome! I always find that when I'm buggin' really hard about something, it always turns out to be a totally different situation than the one I sat there worrying about the whole time. And as the Guy Behind the Desk, surely you'd have to have a computer and "look busy" by typing all the time, right...?

i seriously doubt that I'll have time to fart, much less post. Some of you will be pleased by this, I'm sure......well, at least 5 of you, anyway ;)

I drove there this morning through suck ass shurekill expressway traffic, and it only took 1.5 hours (only!...guh).and i sat in traffic for a good 1/2 hr....so i've decided officially that I want that job. I spoke to ed, and we are meeting monday morning, so i can meet the GSM, and the CFO, and negotiate a pay plan. This will, no doubt, be the longest 5 days in recent memory. I'm going to get it. dammit.

You still didn't tell us what kinda car!

Time for an update, Jim.

i just typed for a half hour, telling you all about my new job, and this fucking thing went beige on me again. i lost it all.

the new job is good.

Cool. Glad to hear it. When will you be in the TV Commercials?

Glad to hear you're liking the job, check in on us when you can. We MISS you (even me)!

update: the F&I guy they hired sucks, and they offered me his job. whook.

w00t! Mo money mo money mo money --

Every time I hear the "screamer" ads I think of you man!

So does this mean you're no longer a car salesman again? That hardly seems fair. ;)

nothing is official yet. but it looks to be headed in that direction.

So now that you've been at it for awhile, how's the commute treating you? Overall, are you happy you made the switch?

hate the ride, like the job, love the $$...i'll try to get into more detail later.

my commute is 35 miles one way to work (ave 50 min). i listen to books on cd--check them out from the library or bum them off of friends. this is how i 'read' all of the harry potter series. since i don't really have time for leisure reading anymore, this is a great way to stay halfway current with what's out there. library has pretty slim pickens somtimes tho.

my commute is 59 miles one way. on the way home it takes me about 1hr&10 minutes. on monday, tuesday and wednesday mornings, I have to drive in rush hour traffic, and it has taken as long as 2hrs+ two or three times so far. Usually, that's about 1.5 hrs. so, it sucks a little, but I listen to the traffic report/howard stern/WIP sportsradio, and let my mind wander. They've been very understanding when I've been late.

As far as the job goes.....I typed this once, but lost it......Salesmanager is more diverse than finance manager, and I interact with more people each day....when it's busy, it's a lot like a party, and I wander about chit chatting with customers while their salesperson is doing one thing or another for them. It helps when I go in later and negotiate if we have already met under less pressured terms. We give all the ladies a boquet of flowers just for coming in...great ice breaker......I like to pretend that thier husband had them sent for her.....( this is an effective means of determining whether or not a manager has greeted that customer...like a tag ...sorta.)

The down side of it is being responsible for my team of salesmen, and accountable for their missteps, or lack of productivity. Nothing I can;t handle, but it is a much different dynamic than just being in charge of me or myself and an assistant. I have two counterparts that are a bit zany. They're both strong closers, but can come off a bit....carsalesmanish..... The GSM tends to send me in to talk to customers that are 'just shopping' which makes my odds of closing them a bit lower, so I take a bit of ribbing for not being able to close customers......I can push when it is called for, but would say that the other two guys are stronger closers....sometimes, if I can't get them, I'll send one of the other two in, or the used car manager, and 3/4 of the time, they're able to close the deal. whatever it takes.

Ed likes to 'spin' people. Spinning someone goes like this: A customer that didn't, won't or can't buy, a delivery guy, a vendor, bank rep, etc.. walks by, and starts to go out the door, and Ed yells, "wait a minute!" and then looks away, or pretends to be concentrating on imaginary paperwork, and the person spins around, wondering if he was talking to them. stupid, but it gets funnier every time he does it. some times it's "did you drop this?!" or simply, "Maaaaaaam?" Most of the employees are hip to it, but if he gets you, that just makes it funnier. Once, I was closing a customer, and the used car manager went into the adjacent cubicle and starting banging into the partition really hard, and pretending that he was moving furniture on the other side....just to throw the guy off balance.....he bought. actually, he did it to me twice with 2 different customers, and they both bought....hmmmm.

So going into finance will be, comparitively, a bit boring, and I'll be in a cave of an office with no window, ...but......I'ts another large pay raise, and that is where the bulk of my expertise lies. I got the schedule worked out to where jinx is happy ( well....not pissed off, anyway) and the guy I will be partnering with is a blue chip, so it should work out really well. And most importantly, Wolf can't call me a car salesman anymore. ;)

Oh. I don't know. I'd say there's still plenty of guilt by association. :D

And does this cave of an office have a computer with internet access?

And does this cave of an office have a computer with internet access?

Took the words right out of my mouth! :D

yup. but give me a few weeks to get my legs under me here. ;)

Welcome back to humanity, Jim. :beer:

:smack: Ask me again why I don't trade my pickup for a newer one.

OK, why don't you trade your pickup for a newer one, Buster? :D

I'm not actually a female canine, but people still call me a bitch, LJ. ;)

So, are you allowed to tell us which of the big dealerships was lucky enough to lure you into their evil clutches??

Cherry Hill Nissan. Your friendly Nissan Giant.

"HEY, Jimmy!......Why is our showroom full of snow?!"

annoying, but very effective. (i'm one of 4 Jim's that work there.)

My picture was in South Jersey Magazine last month (I'm crammed in the back with the other tall fuckers)

I had a pretty good day today. I bashed in like 3 skulls or something.....argh.
I have time to peek now, but not much time to post. sucks for you. or not.

party on, cellar.

6 years here as of yesterday. I've made a bunch of money, but I've dropped a couple of my most important golf balls.