How Can We Trust A President Who....
 

I don't trust any modern politician to be able to set aside their ideology or their political objectives to do the job they are elected to do.

To pull from another post I made, politicians are nothing more than venal, amoral popularity whores.

By the time I got to the point of his story (the boy do like the sound of his own voice), I already didn't care what happened to him. He's one of those guys that, when pulled over by the cops, tells them "I have a right to see the radar detector" and "Why aren't you out there fighting real crimes?" By his own admission, he had mouthed off to the cops twice (and I'm sure he's giving us a pretty slanted version of events). If he had been at a Dem rally, he would've gotten the same treatment. There are too many security concerns at events like that for the law to have to argue the finer points of when to "contact an individual regarding ____ incident". If a cop asks for your ID, just give it to the nice lady/man.


All that being said, you can trust this president as far as you could trust any of the previous ones -- TS has a point. although the degree of amorality, we might disagree on.

What a mindset...

People like you will be the downfall of society.

I guess that, since it hasn't happened at a Democratic rally, we can always say that there are subtle differences between the way he acted and the way the people acted at the Democratic rallys, so it's hard to falsify that statement...

Check out this web site...

http://www.flexyourrights.org/

"Mission Statement
The Flex Your Rights Foundation is a public education group teaching people to understand, appreciate, and assert their constitutional rights during police encounters.

Why We Do What We Do
The need for people to understand, appreciate, and assert their constitutional rights has grown more urgent as these very rights have been eroded.

Over recent decades, police agencies have adopted increasingly invasive and controversial police tactics, which turn innocent citizens into suspects. Concurrently, the Supreme Court has usually ruled in favor of expanding the scope of police power -- especially for the purpose of fighting illegal drugs.

One of the most disturbing consequences of this apparent "drug exception to the Constitution" has been the use of racial profiling to determine which drivers will be stopped for minor traffic offenses in order to be searched for contraband.

In 2001, Congress's hasty passage of the USA Patriot Act further eroded constitutional protections of the people's privacy and liberty.

Sustaining the erosion of traditional constitutional rights is a complicit citizenry, which has become dangerously permissive of everyday abuses of police power. For example, most people during the course of a traffic stop are likely to waive their rights without even knowing it.

Fortunately, these trends are neither inevitable nor irreversible.

Just as regular physical exercise strengthens muscles atrophied from underuse, innocent citizens must "flex" their constitutional rights in order to keep them strong and secure. Moreover, the simple and knowledgeable assertion of these rights is a citizen's first and best protection from the indignity and inconvenience of improper police searches and arrests."

http://www.flexyourrights.org/fyrbanner1.gif

downfall of society. pfft.

you're asking police to protect us, yet want to hamstring them from doing so. Do you actually think that the rank-and-file police officer has any interest whatsoever in undermining the rights of law-abiding citizens? Obviously you do. Try an alternative explanation:

The cop was approached by a city employee who said that someone was refusing to move their car from a private lot. Upon investigation, he found a person with a hostile attitude pulling out the same old chestnuts about "police states" and nazis. After talking to the jackass for awhile and getting reamed out for doing his job, he let him go, but not before radioing to his colleagues that there was a jackass afoot, and to make sure he wasn't actually aggro.

Jackass made it to the venue and encountered another cop, who recognized his description. She went to check his credentials and was immediately greeted with a volley of bullshit attitude and general unfriendliness. She, too, woke up that morning with no other goal than to make sure nobody got hurt on her watch.

We don't pay these people enough.

A civilization in which the police have an easy job is either heaven or hell. I think their job ought to be very difficult, and yes, they should therefore be paid much more.

A cop should have a reason, and be willing to give it, whenever they give an order to a civilian in a non-emergency situation. In an emergency situation, they should be willing and able to justify all actions taken, once the emergency is over. They should apply the law equally to assholes and saints. These are fundamental requirements in a free society, and are only pipe dreams if you let them be.

No I think police should work strictly within their powers and any attempt by them to overstep those boundries should be stamped on, hard. I think a fair few rank and file cops are good, decent people, I also there there are plenty of wannabe hitlers and general assholes, as with any large enough group of people, we invest considerable powers in police, if we wanted to give them more powers, we would, we haven't so they certainly shouldn't be trying to grab them. They have a mandate to enforce the law, nothing more, nothing less. As soon as that is forgotten the problems start.

I completely agree. But where did the police officers in this story step outside the bounds of the law? They're not PREVENTED from asking someone for ID. They might not legally be able to force the issue, but they can ask. IIRC, they can force the issue in some instances, for example, a DUI checkpoint. I'd like to see you guys try some of your lines in one of those :hafucking

They forced the issue.

ummmm, I DON'T trust him!

Understand that this was in a venue where the secret service was present and where a number of individuals were already caged. There is now a zone for a mile or so around the President where Amendments I, II, and IV cease to exist.

Personally, I think if it's a choice between restricting free speech, assembly, freedom from unreasonable search, etc, for thousands of citizens or confining one man to the White House, I'd go for the latter.

I'm especially annoyed when all of this happens during political events as opposed to events based on the actual job.

When she asked for his SS number. :eyebrow:

really? i don't see that as a problem.

i have a paranoid streak about 'the man' as well, but i just don't see the horrendous miscarriage of justice here. The world's full of wackos, and no one wants a president/ial candidate to get shot or have poop thrown on them, so they're a bit zealous in their crowd control. why does everyone want to make every encounter with a cop their own personal Selma, AL?

As you said, a cop can ask for stuff. But if they ask for something without justification, refuse to explain themselves, and threaten jail time for noncompliance, that's over the line.

What does this case have to do with crowd control?

poor word choice. you know what i mean. keeping tabs on ppl in the area of the event.

Really? Violation of Federal law by a police officer in the line of duty, doesn't bother you?
If no one wants that why do they need security?
Because too many cops act like Sheriff Jim Clark. :eyebrow:

Here's some police activity(NYT) that hopefully everyone can agree needs to be punished.

he should have his badge crammed in his butt, as should the supervisor that ordered him to testify falsely.

no, he shouldn't have his badge shoved anywhere. if he did indeed provide a false accounting of events then he should be summarily executed. and they should follow it up the chain until the find the person that originated the order.

no, i'm not kidding.

if LE wants to have the trust of the people they are paid to protect and serve then they need to have a serious house cleaning. nothing short of this will make the dirty cops go away and encourage those that actually do want to protect and serve to follow the calling.

So why do we not have house cleaning among top FBI managers who stifled at least four separate investigations that would have uncovered the 11 Sept attacks. Oh. They are George Jr political appointees.

Why did we not fire the top cops who stifled John O'Neil in his investigation of the USS Cole bombing. An investigation that identified what would be two 11 Sept hijackers and already known to be in America before 11 Sept happened. Oh. The administration insisted that terrorism was not a problem - that John O'Neill was the problem - for being honest and correct. John O'Neill instead was house cleaned.

Right - we should start blaming top LE people. But we don't. Instead we fix the problem with the Office of Fatherland Security, and silly laws such as the Patriot Acts. We imprison innocent people in Guantanamo Bay without due process, and then in the White House, we authorize torture. At what point does the nation’s leader take responsibility - set the good example?

Torture of innocent people in Guantanamo Bay for years is acceptable? When do we have house cleaning in the White House? Oh - they (ie Gonzales who advocated torture) get promoted. Only street cops must be good. Those incompetent FBI managers and White House personal need not set a good example. When was the double standard acceptable? I did not get the memo.

Goddammit tw!!

You're post(s) make me ill!!

I'm not mad at you. But I am madder that hell at what you shine the light on.

The goodwill, self-reliance, and peace of mind of of the regular people I know is being PILLAGED by the current power holders. Fearmongering lying hypocritical selfserving thieving panderers aarrrrrhghghghga!!!!

O I am beyond a sensible response this time.


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