RIP John Paul II
 

He was a man of courage, and exemplified the triumph of the human spirit over adverse circumstances.

-ml

He was a very good pope. I especially liked how he went and visited the guy who shot him, and forgave the guy.

I will miss him.

Woo Hoo, thank you Mr. Pope. I got 16 points thanks to you. I'll miss watching you mumble incoherently in your funny hat.

He was a good pope. I hope the next pope can continue some of the good things that he did.

I am not a man of religion. But the Pope appeared to appeal to young people. They are the future of this world. Bless him for he appeared to be a man of peace!!!!!

Sometimes, when you try to make someone look small, it backfires. Think of it as a midget boomerang.

That's what they wanted us to think but we don't know what was whispered in the gunman's ear during the clinch. :lol:
They are already working on Pope George-Ringo aren't they? I'm curious what color, nationality and continent they will settle on. I'm assuming he'll be catholic.

I'm actually more interested in what name he'll pick ... I mean being JPIII would be the easy choice, but a hard act to follow. He might branch out on his own, or go classic ... John XXIV, or Pius XIII ... and we haven't had a Leo in an awfully long while ...

My favorite pope names are Innocent, Urban and Hyginus.

Here is a kind of pope baby namer for those that are interested.

He was a compelling figure who lived a powerful and faithful life. The Church and I will miss his guidance. A number of folks who don't generally make Mass showed up yesterday to pay their respects. I think that says a lot about the peoples view of the man.

like it or not, religious or agnostic, to everyone... just respect.
i found a beatiful picture of JPII, i think it resumes every goodbye words you could write.

The young man from Poland with a strong faith in God becomes leader of Catholic Church and intermediary for 1 billion people.

Rock on, Lolek.

One of my favorite world leaders. I think he did a lot of good things. If there's a Heaven, I hope he lands there.

In the meantime, I am curious to see who will be next.

Reagan said "Tear down this wall" but I think JP II had much to do with that actually happening. :)
John the 23rd used to walk down to the vatican workshops, drink wine and shoot the shit with the working people while sitting on a barrel or workbench.
Paul 6th seemed rather regal and aloof.
Pius 12th was political prick. He and Pius 11th took the power of the church away from the bottom where it flowed to the top and moved it to the top where it's dispensed downward at the Popes discretion.

In this case, you may be speaking from experience. The pope was just a Polish man named Karol Wojtyla. Nothing more, nothing less. He was of no more importance than me, or you, or anyone else. He was a decent person who tried to improve relations in the middle-east, but who clung to ignorant and old ideas such as telling those in the church they can't use protection while having sex. He deserves no more or less respect than I do or you do.

Radar, as a non-theist I am forced to agree with you on the particulars of religion but are you truly so militantly egalitarian as to believe that what you have accomplished in your life is anything nearing the magnitude of what he has?

What do you think he's accomplished? He spoke to both sides of the dispute in Israel and supported human rights. He only got to do the former because he was elected to a high position (as a dark horse) and anyone would do the second. Being elected by a select group of bishops and cardinals isn't much of an accomplishment to me. In fact I'd say being elected by millions is much harder.

I've been elected to the executive committee of the state of California Libertarian Party. Not much of an accomplishment, but I was elected by more people than him.

Also, I haven't been living with servants catering to my every desire. I haven't been coddled, and cared for. I've actually had to earn a living instead of living in luxury at the expense of others and I've also supported others. I've travelled to more countries than he has and I speak the same number of languages he did.

So in answer to your question, I'd say yes I am that egalitarian. If anything, I'd say I'm more accomplished because I've worked for everything I have.

Ah, just making sure... :rolleyes:

yes radar. i can see how getting elected to a regional position in a "3rd party" is on the level with rising to the level of cardinal and then being elected by one's peers to be the 264th pope in 2000 years is the same. exactly the same.

exactly when did the Soviets decide you were important enough to assassinate?

and no i'm not catholic, so i don't believe he was any more infallible than any other man but only an idiot would make the statements you do and expect to be taken seriously.

uh--Radar--are we to believe that you believe you are MORE or AS accomplished as the late Pope? Wow. Your megalomania knows no bounds. Really. How do you suppose? I don't see you influencing global policy anywhere.

Rising to the level of cardinal? All that takes is sticking around. What do you think it requires to "rise" to the level of cardinal? Just being a priest long enough would get you to that level. What number of pope he is in what number of years is completely irrelevant. If I made my own religion and called myself the pope of it, I'd be the only pope in the history of the world. I'm not impressed with any position within any religion.

At the same time they decided the pope was important enough to assassinate. In otherwords, the Soviets never tried to assassinate the pope. One individual tried, but he wasn't sent by the Soviets and if you claim otherwise you're even more stupid than we all thought. Also, since when does having someone try to kill you make you important?

No, only an idiot would would make such a claim about what I said. And this means you...idiot! I am very serious, and every single thing I've said is true.

Wow, are you really this stupid or are you just acting? I am indeed as accomplished or even more accomplished as the pope. By all means tell me what he's done on his own without the church that makes him so accomplished. Being selected by a bunch of cardinals isn't a major accomplishment, so what do you have?

Also, the fact that I consider myself the equal or better of any human on earth (equal to the good and better than the bad) who has ever lived or who ever will does not make me a megalomaniac. It makes me a man. I am a man and he is a man. He is nothing more. The difference is I make my own way and I don't live off the efforts of others. I earn my own living. I don't surround myself with an organization that has tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands if not millions of people over the years and which has trillions of dollars worth of treasures (some of which was obtained by people in third world nations) and which promotes charity without using any of that treasure to help those people.

I think the pope was a good man. He had a good heart and wanted to do the right thing. He didn't always do the right thing, but he tried. If they had dressed up another man in the funny hat, he'd have done the same things. The political office of pope has historical significance, but the man was not that accomplished. He stayed in the church long enough to move up in the ranks and he was politically saavy enough to get elected by a relatively few cardinals.

He had something you don't: humility... that makes him more of a man than you, Radar.

Radar, maybe this will help. A classical liberal on the Pope.

Well, he did believe he could make infallible judgements...

He claimed he was the voice of god on earth and he could tell everyone else how to live their lives. That doesn't sound like humility to me. I fight so that people can make their own decisions about how they should run their own lives. Also, I happen to have humility regardless of your personal opinion. I admit I'm wrong when I am and I don't claim to be anything I'm not. I take credit for my own accomplishments and not those of others. The pope is attributed for writing many things that were written by his staff. I'm a decent man, but not a perfect man just like the Pope.

JPII did many good things for the world, in a political sense, I suppose. But the one thing I can't ever forgive him for is the Church's stance on contraception. The human race is busy drowning in our own numbers, and he had a chance to do what is right for our species -- and didn't.
I don't think it's possible to forgive a failure of leadership of that magnitude.
- Pie

i don't agree with the theological stance the catholic church holds on many issues, which makes sense since i am not catholic.

radar, i wasn't talking about anyone being a better man than you. this was about the importance and influence of one man on the world.

i have seen the light and i now understand that you have done things the pope hasn't. hell, the pope never got a letter from some director's lawyer allowing HIM to borrow a name for his hot dog cart.

radar, the things you say do more to hinder your cause and party than they could ever help it. do you realize that there are an awful lot of conservatives that agree with many of the basic tenets of the LP, but when we hear some of the proponents of this party speak it is an immediate turn off. there is no way in hell i would associate my name with the LP, just because of the BS (like this) that is part of the way you try to promote yourselves.

to be fair i feel the same way about the other parties. i will never be a member of a party that thinks Tom DeLay or Ted Kennedy qualify as leaders... hey, lookee there radar! you are important on the national scene - you, just like DeLay and Kennedy have managed to turn people away from your party.

I don't know, 1 billion catholics all over the world thought he was good enough to talk to their God for them, and tell them his take on their God's word.

But Radar is on a 3rd party committee for California, one state of 50 in one country out of hundreds.

But you know, that's the same thing. [/sarcasm]

didn't you hear him onyx, it's not the same, it's better.

Sorry, I couldn't hear his words over the roaring ego.

Obviously, being in a committee for a third party in one state of one country is WAY more important to the world and it's workings than being the spiritual leader of 1 billion (give or take a few hundred thousand) people.

My bad.

Hey, I wonder which presidents, royalty and world leaders will come to Radar's funeral? Think it will be televised worldwide? Piped over the internet? Who is going to handle the throngs of people trying to catch the merest glimpse of his body?

Obviously the Libertarian Party of California will handle all the media coverage...

does it mean you were influential or not influential if someone vows to piss on your coffin?

well they say if you don't piss off a lot of people you haven't really achieved anything....
Of course that doesn't mean the corollary is true.

In a sense I get radar's position and maybe it could have had some merit if the personal achievements of the bloke weren't so obvious. I mean there's no love lost between myself and the catholic church but I can admire someone for having that level of conviction, overcoming a lot of adversity and having the balls to say exactly what he thinks to the point of endangering his own life.

Let me know when Radar's actions help bring down a latter day berlin wall. Or when the pope opens a hotdog stand.

Or when a pope actually works to support himself, or when he is elected by more than 117 people (as I was), or when a pope opposes communism, socialism, fascism, etc. as much as I do, or when a pope has registered thousands of people to vote, or when a pope as done anything but be a mumbling guy in a funny hat being pranced around for people to worship (idolatry), etc. There may well be world leaders at my funeral. Who knows? Would it make me more important if they did? No. Would it make me a better man? No.

If a billion people saw me as a "spiritual leader" would it make me a better person? Not at all. Would it mean I was more important than a man who works cleaning toilets to feed his family? No.

For the record, the pope didn't do anything to bring down the berlin wall or in any way have an effect on communism.

I think it's laughable that a pathetic moron like Onyx would think it's egotistical to consider myself the equal of the pope. It only shows how clueless someone can be when they're brainwashed.

And if someone wants to piss on your grave, you were obviously influencial. You may not be important, or a good person, but you have influenced someone. A drunken man who beat his children might find someone pissing on his grave. Was he influencial?

I think somebody may be channelling Danzig... :mecry:

radar, your ignorance is showing. Never attractive in public.
Either that or you're just plain delirious
Yup, delirious it is. John Paul II was virtually defined by his campaign against communism, particularly in Poland. He was personally involved in the first resistance campaigns in Poland in the 70s which in the end acted as the catalyst across eastern europe. As pope he was so totally against communism it's a fairlyopen secret the kremlin was behind the assassination attempt for crying out loud.

For the record, I'm not Catholic, in fact I have alot of problems with Catholic doctrine. I think it's a cheap shot to insult me (and every other Christian in the world by implying all Christians are brainwashed) simply because I think you have ego problems. I'm not the only one who thinks you have ego problems, and some of those aren't Christian.

In addition, if you consider yourself to be on an equal level to the Pope, (which you've stated many times now) then you have to consider me to the on an equal level to you both, in which case, you're a pathetic moron as well. I work for a living too, helping thousands of people a week.

If however, we're not all equal, then your logic is flawed, and you really are just a lonely little pissant with deep psychological issues that tries to make himself feel better by insulting other people.

He didn't have an effect in any way on communism? That's a pretty strong statement.

I thought he visited communist Cuba and as a direct result of that visit, athiest Cuba stopped its repression of religion. I'm sure I saw several news sources reporting that as fact. You could argue that Castro gets the credit for that, but it wouldn't have happened without the catalyst of the Pope.

I'm profoundly anti-Catholic (dogma and doctrine, not the followers, of course), and even *I* thought JPII was a fine Pope. If you've absolutely got to have one, he filled the bill nicely.

The Catholics aren't the only ones using religion as a lever to control peoples bodies, for crying out loud...

Well said, Els. I've been trying to think all morning of how to say something similar, that would not offend people (or Radar), and you have hit it on the button. I'm also not a Catholic, and I think that JPII was a very special, and important man, and I will certainly miss him.

source: beliefnet

I dunno maybe it's the polish heritage speaking, but I liked the guy although (of course) I disagree with a number of things he stood for, then again.. we all agree to diasagree, that's the beautiful part (well I agree to disagree anyway :) )

I heard a statement on one of the news channels today that JP II supplied the CIA with most of the reliable information they got on the goings on behind the iron curtain. He not only passed the info personally, he understood which info was important and why. Impressive. :mg:

Maybe we shoulda asked him about WMD.

Oh, and thanks for setting up the next post. :)

The next pope will be the second to last one.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

St Malarkey? :eyebrow:

Surely you've heard of the Patron Saint of Bullshit?

I thought that would be St Patrick. :stpaddy:

No, he's got snakes, snakebite, fear of snakes, engineers, Archdiocese of Boston and New York, diocese of Fort Worth, TX, Burlington, VT, Harrisburg, PA, Norwich, CT, Portland, ME, Sacremento, CA, Ireland, Nigeria and "excluded people??"

Pat keeps himself pretty busy.

With all the snake stuff I can see how Boston and NY fit in.