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Catwoman 04-18-2005 08:59 AM

Once upon a time...
 
there was a girl called Contessa Lolinola who lived in a small village with a river and some shops. She had hopes and dreams for her life, and knew that when she died, she wanted to be remembered as someone remarkable.

Thus her life began. She did fantastically well in school, surpassing expectations and all other students, achieving great accreditation from teachers and peers alike.

Her education continued thus, and then she finds herself a true love. They speak of marriage and soulmates and vow to be together forever. She happily embarks on a somewhat unremarkable job that has potential for remarkableness, and enjoys a life with love and prospects.

The job lasts some years and remains unremarkable. She desires stimulation, and freedom and says she is going away. She leaves the job. And loses her love.

The job is switched for another, and another. The love is replaced by another, and another. Nothing remotely remarkable happens.

Contessa becomes dissilusioned with her life that is failing to be remarkable.

She spends her days in pensive concentration, discussing life and thought and love and moments of truth. She finds many answers, but none that make her happy.

She thinks about planning her life, about leaving it to chance, and wonders if it will ever be remarkable.

Still seeking answers, she asks others if they too had life stories planned out, and whether they happened or not, and whether she can find her happiness in a life that is not so remarkable.

SteveDallas 04-18-2005 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
Contessa becomes dissilusioned with her life

Disillusioned doesn't even begin to describe things.

Undertoad 04-18-2005 09:48 AM

What is the meaning of life? Contessa finds it in the recognition of others. It's not enough simply to accomplish, others must find the accomplishments remarkable. But most people are too busy getting out of their own way to take any notice of what others might do. Taking notice is in fact a charitable act. Small, but charitable, and you will find that only the best people are those who take notice.

I find some meaning in being impressed with myself. I impress myself every day; lookit, I say at the end of it, I made it through another day. Good work.

glatt 04-18-2005 12:43 PM

Contessa meets a wise man who tells her that people are happy when they are in control and feel competent to satisfy their needs and reach their goals.

She thinks about this and find it rather obvious, but upon further reflection, she realizes it covers everything nicely.

She had been working hard on these goals of hers for a while, and wasn't making much progress. She thinks that maybe if she focuses on different goals, she might find happiness that way. After all, a person starving in the desert has only one need to achieve happiness. If Contessa could convince herself to be happy just having food in her belly, a roof over her head, and clothes on her back, she would stand a much better chance of being happy.

She remembers the US President, Abraham Lincoln, who said that people can be as happy as they make up their minds to be. (She told you her education was good.) And she realizes that the old guy was actually right. You can "fool" yourself into being happy.

She resolved right then to be happy with her job. So many people around the world would love to have her job. What was wrong with her?! Why didn't she LOVE her job? Also, her current love interest was a decent enough guy. He had all his fingers and the other bits that mattered. He'd do for a while anyway.

Contessa was turning over a new leaf. She decided she would be happy. And she was.

jaguar 04-18-2005 01:29 PM

...not sure I buy that. Seems a bit like plasterboarding over a gigantic hole, you might not see the problem for a bit but it's still there and sooner or later you're doing to have to deal with it. I've always worked on the basis that if I was unhappy there was a reason for it and the solution was to deal with that reason, seems to have worked for me so far.

As for planning, yes I did, no it didn't and don't anymore, life is far too random and yes she can whether she chooses to make it remarkable or not. Thought for the day, this young lady.

Brown Thrasher 04-19-2005 09:43 AM

i read a book once called "Living in the now". Very interesting concept. You hear all the time live one day at a time, but think about the concept of living in the moment. I tried this, and for some reason it worked. However, I have given the book away, and it has not been returnrd, so I have had a hard time practicing the concept. If you think about it, we are all living in our own moment. We never know if there will be another.
When living in the now, we do not think as much about the past or the future. This moment, I am living in the now, if I could only continue.......

Catwoman 04-19-2005 10:11 AM

Contessa reads from selected works by artists of her time. She takes some truths away from this, like:

Quote:

Originally Posted by UT
What is the meaning of life? Contessa finds it in the recognition of others. It's not enough simply to accomplish, others must find the accomplishments remarkable.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt
people are happy when they are in control

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownThrasher
living in the now

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by jag
if I was unhappy there was a reason for it and the solution was to deal with that reason

for it is this reason that she seeks.

If she relinquishes control will she be in the now? Is this this cause of her unhappiness? So she ponders, and remains steadfast in her regular state of pensive concentration. All this thinking, she thinks, is no good.

Other people's recognition, and acceptance, and respect, is important to Contessa. It occurs to her that this may be a result of a sorrowful childhood with few friends, seeing madness in her parents and fighting, and longing for more money, to be the same, and to be liked. Knowing as she does this is both a likely and unlikely story, she again dissolves into thought and analysis.

Just one person, she thinks, will do; to know me and think I am wonderful.

This, she realises, is behind her search for true love, and knows she is not the only one.

Contessa hopes sincerely her story may help others, and herself. But knows that people rarely change, and she will yet lack satisfaction in a life that no one knows is remarkable.

glatt 04-19-2005 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar
I've always worked on the basis that if I was unhappy there was a reason for it and the solution was to deal with that reason, seems to have worked for me so far.

That's a very healthy way of looking at it, and I agree, as long as the reason for the unhappyness is something that you have some control over.

Contessa's problem was that she was told as a child that she could grow up to do anything she wanted to do. She dreamed of being an Astronaut, or a Rock Star, or maybe even Prime Minister. But as she got older, she realized that some dreams are not meant to be. She could work as hard as she wanted to, and would still never become a Rock Star. It was too late for her. She had a choice. She could choose to be unhappy about it, or she could focus on different goals. Goals that she had some power over.

She eventually realized that to be "remarkable" in a world of 6 Billion people is almost as difficult as becoming a Rock Star, so she decided to focus on being remarkable to the small group of people around her. She decided that she would be happy when she reached her more modest goals.

glatt 04-19-2005 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
Contessa hopes sincerely her story may help others, and herself. But knows that people rarely change, and she will yet lack satisfaction in a life that no one knows is remarkable.

So Contessa's goals are even more unrealistic than the idea of being a Rock Star. Contessa is basing her happiness on others' opinions of her. As long as she chooses that as her goal, she has zero power of reaching her goal. She's placing her ability to gain happiness in the hands of others, and has already given up all control she had. She will be relatively unhappy until she abandons that goal, and chooses another one. Something she has control over.

lookout123 04-19-2005 10:33 AM

there is a big difference between "happy" and "content". happiness is merely fleeting without being a good grounding in being content.



edit: content does not mean complacent.

Catwoman 04-19-2005 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt
Contessa's problem was that she was told as a child that she could grow up to do anything she wanted to do. She dreamed of being an Astronaut, or a Rock Star, or maybe even Prime Minister. But as she got older, she realized that some dreams are not meant to be. She could work as hard as she wanted to, and would still never become a Rock Star. It was too late for her.

It was these words that led Contessa into a stream of denial. That is wrong, she thinks, because I can do anything I want. I am capable, I am wise, and once I know what it is, I will pursue my dream relentlessly, and successfully. Contessa's mind is strong and she knows she has this power. She knows this because everything she tries she can do, and quickly, and better than others. She fears telling people of this power because they will mistake it for arrogance, or pity her impossible dreams. But quietly, inside, she knows it as truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt
Contessa is basing her happiness on others' opinions of her. As long as she chooses that as her goal, she has zero power of reaching her goal.

Again, Contessa will argue. She believes that she does have control over other people, and has considered at length that she could make them view her with respect. Her choices in career and her interests reflect this. She sees the susceptibillity of most people, how impressionable they are, and knows she can influence them.

The question arises, now, of whether she wants to influence, or coerce. This wouldn't be real, she considers, and would not gain me the truth I am after. This presents an awkward problem for Contessa - she knows, or thinks this to be an important truth, but does not know if she can make her consciousness accept it.

She settles herself somewhat unsatisfactorily with the notion that truth will prevail, and if she is as wise as she considers herself to be, realisation will be forthcoming.

glatt 04-19-2005 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
Contessa's mind is strong and she knows she has this power. She knows this because everything she tries she can do, and quickly, and better than others. She fears telling people of this power because they will mistake it for arrogance, or pity her impossible dreams. But quietly, inside, she knows it as truth.

. . .

She believes that she does have control over other people, and has considered at length that she could make them view her with respect. Her choices in career and her interests reflect this. She sees the susceptibillity of most people, how impressionable they are, and knows she can influence them.

Contessa's life sounds pretty remarkable after all.

mrnoodle 04-19-2005 12:35 PM

Contessa might find that her life gains more meaning and that the unremarkable moments we experience are actually the richest and most fulfilling, if she would spend a little less time wallowing in narcisisstic fantasy and a little more time trying to make things remarkable for other people. She is unmistakably intelligent and talented, but until she directs those talents away from herself and towards others, she's unlikely to be satisfied with the result. Same applies to love. She's not likely to find a soulmate unless she's first willing to be a soulmate to another person.

A daily mantra should be, "It's not all about me." Once this is absorbed, things can only improve for her.

Beestie 04-19-2005 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
there was a girl called Contessa Lolinola ...

Couple of drinks and I could never get that name out.

°*∙HIC!∙*° "Hi ° Every∙Body...Thish is my date, Contessa Lolnolina... °Urp° I mean Contessa Lollyninia, uhhh make that Contessa LolaLindaOlania - hh, hell, thish is my date Count Tessa."

jaguar 04-19-2005 01:32 PM

IIRC mr noodle is religious and therefore best taken with a grain of salt. That and I don't think it's correct.

Sounds like Contessa needs something to do really. Or, from another perspective be willing to go outon a limb far enough to chase the really scary ones, not easy. That and you're not going to find someone like that till you're happy/ier with yourself.

lookout123 04-19-2005 01:54 PM

Once there was a man who got on a bus in New York, bound for LA. He made himself comfortable in his seat, began to read his newspaper, and prepared his mind for the long journey.

About an hour later he realized that the bus hadn't left the station yet. He thought it was curious, and he was a little frustrated, but went back to reading his newspaper. One hour later they still hadn't begun their journey, so he approached the driver and asked what was causing the hold up. The bus driver responded, "Absolutely nothing is wrong, sir. I'm just waiting for all of the traffic lights between New York and LA to turn green at the same time so we can have a perfect trip with no interruptions."


Catwoman - maybe you are just stuck on the idea of the ideal being a possibility. You seem convinced that you are destined for greatness if only someone would show you what you are supposed to be great at. Maybe you aren't supposed to be well known for your greatness. Maybe you are supposed to go through life, do a good job(at a career that you mildly enjoy, but which is interchangeable with a hundred others), make one person smile each day, and make the little difference that helps someone else be great.

For myself, I think it would only be arrogance to think that I am destined for renown and greatness. For me, I believe everyone changes the world around them each and every day - the goal should be to change it in a positive way. Do you think Mother Theresa was born knowing that she would be well known for her compassionate servanthood? or is it possible that someone, who the world will never know about, said or did something that inspired her to follow that path? Do you believe that Thomas Eddison was born to build the lightbulb? or was there an anonymous someone who encouraged and cultivated his inquisitive nature as a child?

maybe you aren't supposed to be well known and respected for some work. maybe you are supposed to smile and make a kind comment to a person who needs a little encouragement to nudge them in the right direction.

mrnoodle 04-19-2005 02:33 PM

You can agree or not, but you'll choke on salt if you are looking for a religious subtext in all my posts.

Let me put it another way that is more sensitive to those who have been persecuted by Jesus and his followers. All religious references removed.

People who are desperate for attention
Paris Hilton
Howard Stern
Courtney Love
Michael Jackson
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Moore
Bill O'Reilly
Britney Spears

People who are remarkable, but unknown
The person who stopped on I-25 north of Denver during rush hour to change a flat tire for an elderly woman, after about 10,000 other commuters blew her off, flipped her off, honked, or maybe just kinda felt bad for a second. (lady thanked the samaritan in a letter to the editor. shit. I didn't mean to say samaritan, sorry.)

My grandmother (probably yours too, but maybe not)

All the rest of em. They're unknown, so how am I supposed to make a list? I'm sure everyone here has at least one example of someone who everyone admires and respects for their good, noble, and COMPLETELY UNMARKETABLE skills.

I'd list the known remarkable, selfless people, but the list is pretty heavily religious in nature, and I don't want to destroy my already crumbling credibility. (although the coincidence is remarkable, come to think of it)


point is (sorry for ramble), which list do you want to be in? There's not a whole lot of true happiness in the first one, I'd wager. Lots of searching for it, but not much finding.

jaguar 04-19-2005 02:51 PM

Quote:

Maybe you are supposed to go through life, do a good job(at a career that you mildly enjoy, but which is interchangeable with a hundred others), make one person smile each day, and make the little difference that helps someone else be great.
Only one way to find out.

I don't remember where marketability came into it.

mrnoodle 04-19-2005 02:55 PM

remarketable. err.

just saying that those who do stuff for other people will be happier than those who do stuff just for themselves, but not to expect financial success, a TV show, a cure for cancer. Just contentment and shit like that. or so i've heard.

glatt 04-19-2005 03:11 PM

I'll have to agree with Mr. Noodle on that, but I don't think it's an aswer for long term happiness. I think when a person does a good deed, they feel good about themselves for a little while afterwards. Then it wears off. You have to keep doing good constantly to get that rush.

lookout123 04-19-2005 03:20 PM

well, if you are doing good things for the "rush" that you get, maybe the motivation for doing the deed is a little offkilter in the first place. maybe we should just do the good deed for the sake of helping another person, without regard to how it makes us feel.

lookout123 04-19-2005 03:25 PM

Quote:

IIRC mr noodle is religious and therefore best taken with a grain of salt.
hey jag, since there was no smilie i have to assume that is a serious statement. that is pretty harsh. that is really no different than if i were to say that "jaguar is british/white/atheist/agnostic/short/tall/etc., so take what he says with a grain of salt".

i may not often agree with you jaguar, but i would be missing much if i discarded your thoughts with a grain of salt simply because i think one of the pillars in your personal philosophy was shaky at best. might the same be true of you?

jaguar 04-19-2005 03:39 PM

Fair call, I've had a shit of a week and I'm running on empty so I guess I'm more than a little bit bitchy right now. However (you were waiting for it), vagueness aside Christianity followed seriously tends to have a pretty fair bias on people's opinions on this stuff in a number of different ways, I think i was just looking for attitudinal roots. Call it a bad habit combined with a bad mood.

I think you're still missing the point. Being an astronaut or a rock star isn't about the fame, it's about kicking ass, being the best and knowing it. Internal, not external. Cat can confirm/deny this one but personally I find few things more scary or offputting than mediocrity, either i do something and am in the top X, .X, .0X percentile or I don't bother, it's both a curse and a blessing. I think Contessa might be the same.

glatt 04-19-2005 04:00 PM

I think the opinions expressed in this thread have a lot to do with the age of the people expressing them. When you are young and vibrant, you feel like you can conquer the world. As you age, you tend to mellow out, and I think you become more content. I'm 38 now, and I'm much happier than when I was 18 or even 28.

lookout123 04-19-2005 04:24 PM

glatt is onto something there. at 20 i was waiting for my shot to show everyone that i am the best in all things i chose to pursue. when i wasn't the best, i had a hard time dealing with it. i had different reactions to falling short of goals at different times.

i'm 30 at this point and still struggling with this one, but for the most part i only compete against myself these days. i always operate under the knowledge that no matter how good i am at something, there is always someone who can 1 up me. so, i can be miserable, or i can choose to do the best that i can possibly do and always strive to improve, without concern for what i can't control. what i cannot control are the things around me - including a competitor's performance.

what i have found is that i am usually near the top in performance, but i can still cheer on and be happy for those that beat me. i call this being content in who i am and what my abilities are.

i hope to learn to be more consistantly content as i age.

again, content does not equal complacent.

jaguar 04-19-2005 04:30 PM

Well I'm not really in a position to comment am I? I don't know, so far I seem to be very good at what I want to do and getting better, time will tell I guess.

mrnoodle 04-19-2005 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar
Being an astronaut or a rock star isn't about the fame, it's about kicking ass, being the best and knowing it. Internal, not external.

I think that's a line used to sell foul-smelling "sport" deodorant and Range Rovers. That said, you're right to a point. There's definitely personal satisfaction in being exceptional at anything. But the real payoff is when everyone else thinks you're cool too. And once you get a taste of that drug, it's all downhill. Not to mention, very short-lived.

Knowing that you've kicked ass is great. Feeling like you've achieved a pinnacle of any kind is sweet victory. But you can't base your life on chasing that sensation. Ask Kurt Cobain how fulfilled he was, despite fronting a new musical movement (bowel movement if you ask me, but he was influential) and selling out stadiums worldwide. His last thought, before it was atomized and painted on the wall, was more likely about how his life lacked the things that I talked about in the previous post than it was about the things you're talking about.

I'm out of pennies, that'll have to be my last $.02.

warch 04-19-2005 05:15 PM

Contessa needs a kick in the ass, a true life crisis to shock her into the here and now. She's hollow.
Or, she should hire a PR firm to craft her remarkably empty image campaign to be released upon her death.

She'll never have enough proof of her own worth. That's a shame.

jaguar 04-19-2005 05:32 PM

Ouch.

Re: I don't think that is the real payoff, not from my perspective anyway. It's the sense of self-worth that comes from knowing that shit, you're fucking good at what you do. We've all got egos, it's best they're based on something solid. It's your achievements and experiences that make you who you are.

Catwoman 04-20-2005 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle
Contessa might find that her life gains more meaning and that the unremarkable moments we experience are actually the richest and most fulfilling, if she would spend a little less time wallowing in narcisisstic fantasy and a little more time trying to make things remarkable for other people. She is unmistakably intelligent and talented, but until she directs those talents away from herself and towards others, she's unlikely to be satisfied with the result. Same applies to love. She's not likely to find a soulmate unless she's first willing to be a soulmate to another person.

Contessa, on an unremarkable Wednesday morning at her unremarkable job, finds some meaning in some words. It is true, she thinks, that I am more concerned with I than any other. Yet in an unfathomable paradox she sees that with her desire for recognition comes an inescapable awareness of others. She wants them to recognise, so she can help. She has the answers to many of their questions, though not yet her own. If only they would listen, she woes, and regrets that she does not use her skills to full effect. Contessa, though determined, lacks motivation, for she feels her efforts - ultimately, in the grand scheme of the universe - will not matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar
mr noodle is religious and therefore best taken with a grain of salt

makes her laugh in it's reflection of her way of thinking, then

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123
Once there was a man who got on a bus in New York....he approached the driver and asked what was causing the hold up. The bus driver responded, "Absolutely nothing is wrong, sir. I'm just waiting for all of the traffic lights between New York and LA to turn green at the same time so we can have a perfect trip with no interruptions."

strikes a chord because it is true, and Contessa takes some comfort that she could be remarkable by helping just one person, one day at a time. But Contessa is notoriously impatient and intolerant, and when she sees a better more expedious way of doing things she simply cannot force herself to go the long way round, taking into account that

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt
when a person does a good deed, they feel good about themselves for a little while afterwards. Then it wears off.

It may take me 10 years to find the right path, she thinks, but at least then I won't get lost. Perfection is important to her like nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt
When you are young and vibrant, you feel like you can conquer the world. As you age, you tend to mellow out

Contessa, despite her young years, knows this is true for most people. And somewhere, beneath her conditioning and desires, she can just glimpse this as her own future. But she is very aware that just because this passion is dulled in the most talented of people, she does not want hers to disappear in a vacuum of realism, out of concern that people will find her arrogant or unreasonable. She will not, she resolves, hide herself for fear of offending. If the world is conquerable - she thinks, in the most metaphorical terms - I know the woman for the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar
Being an astronaut or a rock star isn't about the fame, it's about kicking ass, being the best and knowing it. Internal, not external.

There's nothing quite like overcoming an obstacle - a tricky sequence on the guitar, communicating something important - and even more satisfying than this, is the awareness that with application and concentration, Contessa can 'kick ass' at nearly anything.

In sudden remembrance of how her words will be taken, Contessa adds to her monologue that not only is she capable of anything, so is everyone, and that they simply lack the vision or encouragement or awareness to know it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warch
Contessa needs a kick in the ass, a true life crisis to shock her into the here and now. She's hollow. Or, she should hire a PR firm to craft her remarkably empty image campaign to be released upon her death. She'll never have enough proof of her own worth. That's a shame.

At this Contessa pops out of her story, her stomach tight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
That was well expressed. Blunt with no sympathy. I like it.

Is it true? 'Image campaign' - yes, that's what it is I suppose. 'Never enough proof of her own worth'... maybe; depends if I ever get my ass into gear. 'She's hollow' - that might be true, although I know it's not, ultimately, from the depth of feeling I have for people, especially those who suffer. I hope I don't need the usual 'life crisis' to spur me on, that would be hopelessly predictable.

Contessa returns slightly abated but frustrated that the core of her point is being missed. It is not for some meaningless image, fame for fame's sake or suppressed insecurity and desire for mass adoration. In fact the thought of this makes her uncomfortable. She doesn't want people to get it wrong, to think she's better than she is and put her on a pedestal. She aint no hollow rock star.

What Contessa wants most strongly in this world, and what she believes to be her purpose, is to be in a position where she is listened to, because she knows she gets it right. If there is anyone else who can do it as well, or better, she would rather it was them. This is not selfish desire for recognition, she realises, but frustration at the workings of a world run by fools. I know what to do! I could make the right decisions! So put ME in the position to do it and the world will breath an enormous sigh of relief.

All I want is rightness and truth. Whoever initiates it, all I want, is for things to be put right.

mrnoodle 04-20-2005 09:07 AM

:2cents: found some more pennies (aren't you glad).

Quote:

Contessa, though determined, lacks motivation, for she feels her efforts - ultimately, in the grand scheme of the universe - will not matter.
Hence my point. I'm not saying that Contessa wants to be a hollow rock star per se, but if her motivation is that she "matters" in the grand scheme of things, she sets herself up for disappointment time after time. She will hopefully realize that her contribution to the universe is simply that she lives her life to the best of her ability, without the need for outside motivation or recognition. One day at a time, one act of kindness at a time, doing what is right and letting the chips fall where they may.

I realize now that you and jag were right. My opinion is too heavily skewed by my faith to be a direct parallel with that of someone who doesn't believe in God. Thinking back on it, my lack of "motivation", if you will, to find some meaning in life that is centered around myself is caused by the realization that meaning in life comes from God, and we're all part of a bigger picture. (thankfully, you don't get points taken away for writing train wreck sentences like that one)

Maybe that's why people see religion as a crutch. We believers think that doing the right thing -- on the rare occasions that we are able to achieve this -- is an end unto itself. It strengthens our relationship with God and makes us feel valuable in and of itself. It doesn't mean we're suddenly all vital to the survival of the universe. It does mean that when we start asking questions like Contessa's asking (and we all do), there's an answer close at hand, and other people who have found the same answer can help us on our journey.

yah. so.

jaguar 04-20-2005 09:16 AM

well at least I feel vindicated. It's not necessalarily a bad thing but it is notable.

Catwoman 04-20-2005 10:59 AM

Contessa ponders this and then asks, "Do you think the answer, then, is to take each moment as it comes, and forget about its potential impact or lack thereof? Can one be too consumed by the future and the self to realise that happiness is right now in the moment?"

mrnoodle 04-20-2005 11:30 AM

I think so, to some extent. You have to keep an eye on the future impact of your actions, but not to the point that you're incapable of making split-second decisions. To paraphrase a wise man, all the lights between NY and LA don't have to be green, but if the one in front of you is, go ahead and push the gas. If you can see green for three intersections, push harder. Just keep an eye out for the yellow ones.

lumberjim 04-20-2005 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
Contessa returns slightly abated but *frustrated that the core of her point is being missed.
~snip~
This is not selfish desire for recognition, she realises, but frustration at the workings of a world run by fools. I know what to do! I could make the right decisions! So put ME in the position to do it and the world will breath an enormous sigh of relief.

All I want is rightness and truth. Whoever initiates it, all I want, is for things to be put right.

*here is the elemental flaw in Catwoman. this seems to be a recurrent theme in her threads, no? ( oh yeah, why are we still calling you Contessa?)

You're SOOOO deep. no one could be as deep as you.....it just doesn't make sense. we just don;t get it, do we?

guh. get over yourself. you're just as unique as everyone else. Don't you see that truly remarkable people don't sit around pining away about being remarkable? they're too busy perfecting whatever it is that makes them remarkable. They don't do it BECAUSE they want to be remarkable. They do it for the love of doing it, or a need of some sort. You read too many fairy tales or something. Snap out of it. you're not that perceptive. you're not even all that smart. not stupid, mind you, but christ. get a grip. Your philisophical masturbation is beginning to irk me. Don't you think we ALL feel like there just might be something better out there for us?

Here's what you want to do:

Address your basic needs. Be glad of it. do something that you enjoy. be with people you like to be with. take pleasure in that, and recognize that those very simple things are rare and remarkable enough. really.

lumberjim 04-20-2005 12:11 PM

oh, yeah. i forgot: Contessa is a fruity assclown ;)

lookout123 04-20-2005 12:12 PM

If you consistantly try to do the right thing then you don't have to stress as much over the future impact of those actions. misteps will happen, but they are impossible to avoid no matter what path you choose. regardless of holding a spiritual faith, you can choose to treat people with courtesy and respect, tell the truth - even when you would rather not, do your good deeds for the sake of helping someone - not for the fuzzy feeling you get, encourage those around you - don't tear them down, apologize when you slip up, do the best that you know how to do with each task at hand.

if you set your mind to living in this manner with an outward focus - meaning that your focus is on helping others rather than how it makes you feel - you will most likely find this peace you seem to be looking for.

professional and social recognition come and go, sometimes even to the people who deserve it. the people who most deserve recognition generally go unnoticed, which is exactly how many of them prefer it.

Trilby 04-20-2005 01:04 PM

Ah, well. My lonely :2cents: I was good at what I did for money. Very good. I didn't take pride in doing it, though, because I felt that any trained monkey could do what I was doing. I went into the thing thinking I wanted to "HELP" people. I ended up a psychological mess and blubbery baby over something I thought was my "calling". Maybe I'm a wuss. I prefer to think of it as a learning experience and learn the most important thing: I matter, I have value and I can love myself.
Que :violin: But seriously, I'd be much happier making :donut: People love them and people love the ones who make them! :)
How, you ask, does this help CW quest? It doesn't. I just wanted her to know that other people experience angst, too.

Beestie 04-20-2005 01:39 PM

Maybe Contessa Linoleum should consider that if the world isn't giving her what she needs than maybe its because she's not giving the world what it needs.

Catwoman 04-21-2005 04:39 AM

And it is precisely because I am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim
just as unique as everyone else

that I started this thread, and called myself Contessa. I know that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna
other people experience angst

and if you remember I said that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
not only is she capable of anything, so is everyone, and that they simply lack the vision or encouragement or awareness to know it.

So it pains me when I hear

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim
Don't you think we ALL feel like there just might be something better out there for us?

because this confirms what I knew all along: that we are all the same. I was demonstrating by revealing my inner thoughts (that most people would be too embarrassed to admit) that we all think the same. We all think we're special/unique/destined for greatness. I thought by examining this thought process in painful detail (using me as an example, as usual) this might become clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim
Don't you see that truly remarkable people don't sit around pining away about being remarkable?

How do you know? Remember that we're all the same. There are no god-men, with zero ego and mighty conscience. Even Mother Teresa will have doubted herself, wondered about god, and hoped she was remarkable. She was only unique in that she acted on her hopes and dreams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim
You read too many fairy tales or something. Snap out of it. you're not that perceptive. you're not even all that smart. not stupid, mind you, but christ. get a grip. Your philisophical masturbation is beginning to irk me.

Yes, yes, all this is true. But physical masturbation at work would really get me into trouble. (And wtf's a fruity assclown?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie
Maybe Contessa Linoleum should consider that if the world isn't giving her what she needs than maybe its because she's not giving the world what it needs.

Yes, true again. Yep, that ones got me stumped. Absolutely right.

wolf 04-21-2005 08:55 AM

The Contessa needs to look at her definition of "remarkable" and her need to be so.

What makes one "remarkable," Contessa?

And why is that your greatest need?

Clodfobble 04-21-2005 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
...this confirms what I knew all along: that we are all the same. I was demonstrating by revealing my inner thoughts (that most people would be too embarrassed to admit) that we all think the same. We all think we're special/unique/destined for greatness. I thought by examining this thought process in painful detail (using me as an example, as usual) this might become clear.

Ah, NOW it's a true Catwoman thread. After a reasonable discussion wherein she asks for answers, she does a quick 180 and begins to claim that she was leading us all along, just trying to teach us closed-minded sheep what the important things in life are.

I submit that you did not "know all along" anything. You had a moment of self-doubt, started a thread about it, got many responses on other ways to look at and solve your problem--and now that you're feeling better, your defense mechanism has kicked in to prevent you from admitting you genuinely sought help from other people. You now act as if you revealed your inner thoughts (which you acknowledge would be embarassing for some other people...) solely because you had a philisophical point to make.

I think that it is this intellectual dishonesty with yourself that causes you to feel unfulfilled and unremarkable. Because you fundamentally feel all people are unremarkable, and your way of trying to rise above that is by "teaching" others, convincing yourself that you know and understand more than they do. If instead you can look at the glass as half-full, i.e. everyone is remarkable, and find satisfaction in what you are already doing and being, then you won't need to whitewash your self-doubt as being merely a philisophical exercise.

Catwoman 04-21-2005 09:25 AM

No no no I did start off genuinely asking for help! None of it was made up! I just knew I wouldn't be the only one, so I tried to make it into a story. It also eased the reading process instead of saying 'I' all the time.

All I know is that we're all the same. I don't know anything else, and I'm not pretending to string you along so I can usurp answers without admitting ignorance. Most of your answers have really helped me, yes me personally, but it is still true that when I started writing I didn't want to claim ownership of these thoughts, or uniqueness, because I know everyone else is the same! Make more sense now?

Catwoman 04-21-2005 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
The Contessa needs to look at her definition of "remarkable" and her need to be so. What makes one "remarkable," Contessa?

Worthy of remark. Noted. Acclaimed. Intelligent. Superior. Inimitable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
And why is that your greatest need?

Probably because I am none of the above.

wolf 04-21-2005 09:34 AM

Are you so sure?

Or do you just think that you are not allowed to accept those positive qualities of yourself, because nice girls don't brag, and you don't want to make yourself seem superiour, do you?

(tough to take this from someone who you are convinced only thinks of you as a bloody great prat, isn't it?)

Catwoman 04-21-2005 09:44 AM

Er :blush: don't know what to say. Was that four 256ths of a compliment? I don't know. No idea what I am. Don't care anymore, actually. Self absorption isn't all that attractive... So (ahem) how are you today? How is everyone? :grouphug:

wolf 04-21-2005 10:21 AM

You can give yourself permission to admit you do well at things. Or even to go way out on a limb and understand that it's okay to like yourself.

Why is it you're not? (you don't have to answer this out loud. just answer it for yourself. you're the only one that counts.)

Troubleshooter 04-21-2005 10:26 AM

From my email tagline:

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?...Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine,... It is not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

mrnoodle 04-21-2005 10:36 AM

Who said that? That's cool.

Catwoman 04-21-2005 10:36 AM

I've seen that somewhere before, I like it. So what do we do about it: how does one 'let their own light shine'?

warch 04-21-2005 10:41 AM

Who blasted you in your formative years to make you feel like a waste?
Or who saw you and encouraged your sense of worth?

Troubleshooter 04-21-2005 10:57 AM

http://www.storybin.com/wisdom/wisdom118.shtml

# Source: Attributed to Marianne Williamson in her book, A Return to Love.
# Author: Marianne Williamson

Warm and fuzzy isn't my thing but that quote goes a long way to positively reinforce my signature from here.

limey 04-22-2005 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman
...Just one person, she thinks, will do; to know me and think I am wonderful....

And that one person is your, yourself. Believe me on this one. And no, it's not the soft option.

Catwoman 04-22-2005 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warch
Who blasted you in your formative years to make you feel like a waste?

My father's girlfriend. School friends. Boys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warch
Or who saw you and encouraged your sense of worth?

My mother (dramatically). Teachers. Anyone who read my writing, saw me act, heard me play music, or had a conversation with me.

It probably balances out between those who thought I was amazing, and those who thought I was nothing more than a pair of breasts or a stuck up little brat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limey
And that one person is your, yourself. Believe me on this one. And no, it's not the soft option.

I know. You're right, absolutely.

warch 04-22-2005 11:34 AM

School friends

Crappy friends. That said, I know there is nothing more given to pure evil than prepubescent girls jockeying for status. Cannibals. But it usually goes away.

OnyxCougar 04-24-2005 04:30 PM

We can not all be the same if some of us are remarkable.


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