Pagan curiosity
 

My fiancee and I have been living out here in the middle of KS for about 2 weeks, now. We are absolutely loving it. We have all the freedom in the world to just be ourselves and enjoy the nature around us. Now that we have been away from the city for a little bit, we are both feeling a connection to something...like we are part of this huge stream of energy. We are in search for an ability to understand this energy.

We have both been gravitating toward this idea of Paganism. We are starting to feel like this may be our spiritual paths, but we don't have a thorough understanding of the different types of Paganism that exist.

I know there are several Pagans on this board and would like some insight about different Pagan beliefs. If you would be willing to give me some ideas on different paths to explore through Pagan beliefs, it might help me to determine what would be most natural for me and he might discover what is most natural for him.

We were both raised in fundie families, but both of us realized a long time ago that those paths weren't for us. We just didn't have the ability to block our intellectual minds enough to have that kind of faith.

Any suggestions for reading, or other advice are welcome. Thanks.

Just to beat the pagans to the punch, the connection you're experiencing may just be that since you're living away from all of the civilization that you are feeling a connection to the environment more in line with what we are designed to live in. There's a lot to be said for the dissonance being brought on by too intense of a civilized environment.

All I'm saying is to not overdo the mystical connection, it could just be that you are feeling more in tune with what would be considered closer to your (our) natural environment.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm a non-theist. I'm not saying there isn't a mystical connection, but Occam's Razor...

But, ah, that doesn't mean you should give up the Internet or anything!

To give up the internet would be to give up the cellar! I could NEVER do that. :D

Yes, I know I am not designed to live in the rat race. I also realize that the way I feel connected to my environment right now is probably more the way it should be. It makes sense, now, why I never felt that I belonged in a place. Here, I feel that belonging. That being said, I would not rule out the possibility that there is some etheric force in nature until I have a more thorough understanding about the beliefs that are already out there. Right now, all I have are my feelings, which are strong enough, but I have yet to make sense of them. I am hoping, now that I can focus more clearly, to figure out what I want to believe based on my own version of logic and my feelings inside. Maybe there are others out there like me.

Anyway, thanks for the perspective.

What if a faith in God did not equal the fundie line of crap you've been fed all your lives?

that isn't a bad thought, OC.

I would like to say I have a belief that God exists. But, I am not so sure I can really put stock in the idea that there is one patriarchal god. It doesn't feel right to me. That may be the effects of the fundie crap I was steeped in all my life talking. I have to do some serious soul searching, I suppose. I am prepared for that, as I have been searching for a long time (at least 10 years or so) but, I have not been able to concentrate on it, like I can now.

Ok, if you insist on assigning some sort of paradigm to your faith in an etheric entity why not just take the time simply explore your senses and experiences? Is there really any need to let someone else's lack of knowledge of your senses and experiences color what you feel?

There's no more guarantee that they are any more right than you are.

There is no one way to suggest that you proceed. Absolutely, continue to groove on the feeling of connection to the earth.

There are so many pathways to choose from, or that will choose you.

Start by reading their teaching stories. The old tales. The myths.

TS: Of course there is no guarantee that someone else's beliefs are more right than mine. I am just looking for other ideas...channels through which to enjoy this new experience. Is there something wrong with wanting to relate these feelings to other people's experiences? It's not like I think I need to match myself up with a dogmatic system. I just want to share this with someone or feel that I can relate. After being basically spiritually void for so long, it feels good.

Wolf, thank you for the advice. I have been reading about ancient religions today, like Druidism and Wicca. If anything, it is nice to learn about these religions to get an idea of what they are.

Nothing explicitly wrong. I'm just saying that not everyone is going to necessarily have a similar or relatable experience. Some people can't have an experience without having to make it part of a group experience or seeking external validation.

Edit: This may be an entirely unique experience. Feel the power of you.

For the record: Wicca isn't ancient. It is, however, the most popular form of modern witchcraft. It's a very good starting point, though.

I suppose it might be silly to point this out, but what Case describes is *exactly* the basis of the old religions. There *is* a different vibe about the wide open spaces. Our civilized, lived-indoor existences are not what we are all about as beings. The human species did not evolve inside of wooden boxes with plasma screen televisions. The species evolved in the trees, on the savannah. If you feel different when you are more "in the world", that's because...well...it *is* very, very different than the life lived in bustling civilization.

Pagan beliefs arose from those same feelings. The world is vast and seemingly all-encompassing. It is both frightening and beautiful. By attributing aspects of this boggling envrionment and the stimuli therein to various deities, entities and spirits, humans are attempting to better relate to all of it. There is nothing wrong with reverencing that which gives you sustenance, shelter...life itself. And for those who really, really *feel* what is there, the energies that flow through and around everything...it is the most logical way to go.

I can see a rock. I can be warmed by the sun. I can marvel at the stars. They're *there*. They're tangible. They aren't evanescent concepts designed to *separate* me from the 'lesser' entities. Rocks, trees and all the rest are the byproducts of the machinery of creation, the manifestation of pure energy made solid by some fortuitous happenstance of physics. We are made from the same stuff as the universe.

This is not very far from "made He each in His image" as far as I am concerned. Just a different way of telling the story. Just a different way of coming to grips with the universe.

There's a very big, very cool Pagan festival going on in Leavenworth County, KS (near the Missouri border) over Memorial Day weekend. There will be workshops from a dizzying array of different paths. There will be outdoor frolicking of all descriptions. There will be music, dance, drumming, giant bonfires from Hell, and several hundred Pagans reveling in their differences and their similarities.

You should come. There are worse starting places for the Pagan curious. That's how I got started (and I'm now the President of the organization that puts this festival on. Come celebrate the 20th anniversary with us!).

Be very careful about those which <a href="http://www.cthuugle.com/">choose YOU</a>

Even before I was Christian, I never believed that. Not all Wiccans or pagans do, case. It's ok to believe this is all random chance if you want, but listen to what nature is telling you. There *is* a watchmaker. Doesn't matter what his/her name is...you'll feel him/her when you're out there....

Well, the older Pagan religions think the Earth was made out of the body parts of sleeping or dead gods or monsters, and humans were formed from plants or clay, so all Pagans certainly don't believe in evolution.

Blah, blah, blah, that's just your stomach talking.

lol at least it's consistant....

I've never really understood why there's such a bias against evolution being a part of Creation. Why this need for humans to have emerged in this precise configuration, anyway?

I don't think evolution and the notion of Creation need to be mutually exclusive, but people who don't see a relationship sure do feel strongly about it.

By the way...I don't think I intimated anywhere that what I was saying was representative of *all* Pagan thinking or belief (not stated toward you, OC...I think you and I understand each other pretty well :D ).

Elspode:

I really enjoy listening to you. You have an easy conversational style of writing that draws the listener into your point of view. I want to compliment you on your consistently skillful writing.

As to the subject of your recent post in this thread, and considering your previously noted eloquence, we share considerable ground. The labels, names, attributions may vary. Some are human contrivances and conveniences, some have been portrayed as divine inspiration. I believe the content matters more than the packaging. What's more valueable the wine or the bottle?

I wonder if you know about http://www.religioustolerance.org/ . I suspect you may, but if it's new to you or not, I suggest that you'll find much here encouraging.

Thanks for writing. Please continue.

are you asking Robert Mondavi or N!xau ?

I also feel the connection with the natural world, but I think much of it comes from not having our concrete shelters all around us. When you're standing out in the middle of nowhere, there's shit that can EAT you out there. Gets the blood pumping, you start smelling smells and hearing things and catching movement with the eye. Suddenly things that used to be incidental -- rain, wind, animal behavior, seasons changing -- are now much more important. They govern the world around you, but you never noticed it as much from inside your artificial, climate-controlled environment.

Pfft. I sound like you live in a tent in the Gobi. But still, you're closer to that way of thinking when you're far away from subways and oil refineries.

My point exactly, MN. Now, take those elevated, quickened senses and awareness and wrap the superlative human mind around it all. The attempt to comprehend and respect all that Is will sooner or later result in either a true, underlying connection to the All, or a nifty series of creative stories to explain it all to one's satisfaction so that one can get on with the hunting and harvesting without further distraction. ;)

Wow, thank you for your post, Elspode. This thread is becoming very helpful for me.

The festival would be excellent. It might be something I can attend. I will have to see. We might be traveling that direction that weekend, anyway, so I hope we can work it out. It truly sounds like an excellent time, anyway. I am glad it is in Kansas! Unfortunately, I am on the other side of the state.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I appreciate your insight. (Even challenges brought forth by Troubleshooter.)

Yeah, that's me, challenged, I mean challenging.

Just doing my part for the cognitive arts.

Sometimes I think god/faith/spiritualism can actually impede one's appreciation of the world.
I am an absolutely non-spiritual person. People seem to assume that means that I have a very cynical take on the world, but it's really the opposite. The universe is such an amazing place! Look at a Hubble image. Or a Kansas rainstorm. Or a falcon. Why can't they be amazing by themselves?
To search for some sort of "deeper meaning" in life (or nature) is to ignore what it really is.
Isn't the truth, stark unalloyed truth, the most beautiful thing there is? Then why make things up?
- Pie

Have you tried The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark World by Sagan?

Carl Sagan muses on the current state of scientific thought, which offers him marvelous opportunities to entertain us with his own childhood experiences, the newspaper morgues, UFO stories, and the assorted flotsam and jetsam of pseudoscience. Along the way he debunks alien abduction, faith-healing, and channeling; refutes the arguments that science destroys spirituality, and provides a "baloney detection kit" for thinking through political, social, religious, and other issues.

Emphasis mine.

I read that when it came out. I may have to try to unearth it from the pile and look it over again. Up until the frighteningly stupid novel, I really loved reading Carl Sagan.

re: pie

That's just it. Appreciation of the stark, unalloyed truth is sometimes richer when you aim for the WHOLE truth, and not just the first surface glance. That doesn't have to mean worshipping God, but it does mean having an open mind that there might be things in the universe that the human mind lacks the ability to comprehend.

I think that's the first step in a logical progression to belief in God, but that's just me. No, TS, I'm not going to list the rest of the steps ;)

step 1: collect underpants
step 2:
step 3: profit

By definition, then, you are making up the rest of it. That means it has diverged from truth.
- Pie

If there are no other steps then it is neither logical nor a progression. QED