They're at it again
 

Well, there are more bombs going off in London ("small" ones, supposedly) and the not-fun contionues.

I've been hearing a fair amount lately about the "American Hiroshima" plan which is supposed to be the next in the hit parade. Short version ... Osama Bin Laden and his minions are supposed to have acquired a number of suitcase nukes and has deployed them in the US with the help of some Mexican or South American gang of ill repute.

I've heard the 20-city target list on the radio, but can't remember more than about the first half-dozen ... does anyone else have this, or any more information? A lot of blogs and boards are talking about the idea of the attack, but none of 'em have the list, and I'm not willing to part with $100 for an online subscription just to find out.

(NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Baltimore, DC, and Miami ... ooh. More than half-dozen)

haven't heard anything about the suitcase nukes, but i'm not real big into conspiracy theories.

the new reports i've seen about today's London bombings seem to point more at some dipshit Brit trying to scare his countrymen than an actual terrorist attack. the guy driving the bus that was hit said he heard something "pound on the roof". if these were islamic terrorists with a goal of slapping the west around, i think the driver wouldn't have heard the "thud" that killed him. my money is on some folks who agree with London's mayor about the cause of the attacks.

It sounds like the detonators went off and the explosives didn't

Awesome! A mistake like that may be enough to catch the masterminds behind this.

Unless its the work of some twisted copy cat bomber which sounds possible.

As far as the 20 major cities hit parade, I wouldn't give tooo much credence to that. If someone in the know reported the targets they planned to hit, wouldn't they also turn in the would be perps if the informant was on our side? And if they weren't on our side, why would they alert us in advance? Its a good way of spreading fear and paranoia, though - psychological warfare.

[quote=wolf]...Short version ... Osama Bin Laden and his minions are supposed to have acquired a number of suitcase nukes ...QUOTE]

Any mention of suitcase nukes on the internet date back to March '04. I actually research this a little when this rumour began to circulate last year. It worried me.

Most of the articles that I found either dispute the existance of any working devices or the common terrorist ability to handle and detonate one successfully. This article reflect most of the common opinions.

BHARAT RAKSHAK MONITOR - Volume 6(5) March April 2004

Activating the weapon would require special technical skills and intimate knowledge of sophisticated electronic codes. Only a few nuclear scientists with experience in the assembly of ADMs could be expected to have the skills necessary for the purpose. Overcoming the hurdles of breaking electronic locks would be infinitely more difficult and, besides state-of-the-art supercomputers and personnel trained to operate them, would require a highly advanced intelligence gathering system. Neither Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda, nor any of the other large terrorist organizations supporting it, is likely to have acquired the ability to trigger a modern brief case nuke that it may have bought or stolen, especially if the Tritium triggers needed to ignite them have decayed.

However, it is possible that these terrorist organizations may have themselves developed and assembled a crude mini-nuke or may do so in the near future. The gun-type nuclear device, that uses high explosives (HE) to fire a sub-critical highly enriched uranium (HEU) projectile into another sub-critical uranium cylinder to form a solid HEU critical mass, may be the easiest to fabricate. Designs for such a nuclear bomb have been floating on the Internet ether for years. Still, such an effort would need hundreds of millions of dollars to procure the ingredients, the ingenuity of volunteer or mercenary nuclear scientists and oodles of luck. Though the development of a practically usable nuclear warhead presents a complex challenge, it would be irresponsible to assume that it cannot be done. Ever since the break up of the Soviet Union, there have been credible reports of many out of work nuclear scientists having gone missing. While some of them have doubtlessly been employed by North Korea and other states of concern, the erstwhile rogue nations, others may have had no compunction in loaning their skills to whoever asked if the right amount of money was on offer -- preferably in US dollars.

I don't subscribe to the idea that a nuke will never be successfully used in this country. Al-Qieda has large amounts of money to purchase anything they want. Plus they are patient and time is on thier side.

[ :tinfoil: ]So, the Russians have the knowledge of how to trigger nukes, a desire to be a world superpower again, and are strapped for cash. And their president is proving to be a scary dude. Motive + ability = scary.

After all, we supplied Afghanistan with weaps when they were fighting the Soviets. [/ :tinfoil: ]

20 suitcase nukes? and a partridge in a pear tree as well I assume, get a frigging grip. Anyone that's actually seen photos of the suitcalled russian `suitcase nukes` would realise we`re talking more intercontiential oversize suitcase that looks like a piece of highly valuable equipment painted in bright colours than your average tan briefcase, it takes a min of 7 kilos material+trigger+eletronics to make a nuke, they`re not that small, deterioration and extensive electronics issues aside. The only successful NCB terrorist attack in recent history was the aum somethingiàvenowforgotten cult in japan in the mid 90s with a nerve agent delivered through the highly advanced method of plastic bags punctured with umbrellas. The aum had permanant advanced facalities in a 1st world country, advanced technology (the did experimental brain surgery for crying out loud) and that was the best they could do. Al queda and its associates have been decimated and are under intense scrunity around the world by all major intel shops.

not in lon again for this one, looks like it went badly wrong, I`ll be interested to see if they can catch the guys behind this.

noodle appears to be demonstrating his awesome grip of global politics again - the ruskis are effectively at war with these guys over chechnya + co-coperation over disarmament + ability to trace = fairly stupid. Putin is an autocrat but he`s no warmonger.

sigh.

did you see the humorous and self-effacing tinfoil hat guys? at all? best of luck with your vinegar addiction.

I don't think Putin is a warmonger, but I think he's absolutely an opportunist. He's looking out for Russia first, and doesn't really seem to care what ripples he causes elsewhere. (Model worth studying?)

I sincerely hope that it is as hard to set one of those things off as you're saying ... but there are people who know how to do it, and who would be more than hungry enough to provide that information for the right price.

Of course, they don't necessarily have to detonate it as a nuclear device to cause devestation ... the dirty bomb concept, while less sexy than setting off the real thing with the corresponding mushroom cloud, would cause significant damage, death, and havoc from the rad release alone. For that they don't even need anything as fancy as a nuke ... remember all those pictures of the hospitals I posted? Quite a few of them had x-ray machines in place ... some of which probably have the rad source intact.

True. However, if you look at Al Qieda's MO, they are all about time and simplicity. They will wait for years before striking (it took four years for them to get back to the World Trade Center) and when they do, their plans tend to run on the simple side. Easy to execute, little to go wrong, great odds of success. The plan to take out the Trade Center towers seems complicated but it really wasn't. Yeah, there was the job of getting 19 people and four aircraft coordinated to hit their targets successfully, but it was a relatively simple idea. Navigation of in-flight aircraft was the most difficult part of the plot. Nuke are too messy and too risky. There's too much risk of self-contamination, inadvertant detonation or even non-detonation, and the logistics of smuggling one into the country without being known. There were certain aspects of the 9-11 plan that were scrapped by "oh-samma" because he thought they were too complicated and had a risk of failure, like the rumour of a west coast attack on conjunction with the east coast attack.

Well in case you ever change your mind check out THIS

A very eye opening site, I must say. :worried:

now THAT was funny :lol:

mmmmmmm. Jag knows a little too much about all this stuff for my comfort. Why do you know all this stuff? Jag---is it...is it...YOU?!

I'm fucking kidding, ya tightass limey. ;)

Actually, Jag's an Aussie by way of Switzerland. No doubt he learned how to make nuclear bombs when he was in Geneva, right Jag? ;)

From here.

Personally, I can't vouch for the truth of the article. Just pointing out the claims being made. :confused:

I hope old Osama's heard of "Operation Glass Mecca", where following a nuclear terror attack in the US, the US military nuclear carpet-bombs the Middle East.

No, I just made that up. (or did I?)

Anyway, I figure if Al Qaeda had a nuke in the US, they'd have used it by now.

I think Marichiko may be on to something -- today's bozos might be copycats.

No. No you did not.

Last news reports I've heard seem to indicate that todays events were poorly made bombs which were fully intended to do what the apparently better-constructed devices did two weeks ago.

I'd like to think that all of them apparently failing (detonators only going off) is an indication that the perps are either running out of quality materiel or qualified bomb makers.

"Well, I'm sorry, sir, but Ibrahim showed us how to do this before he got picked up in the sweep, and yes, we wrote it all down, but then Mustafa spilled his coffee ... I got a bit of a scratch and my jeans are burnt here, can I have, say a half-dozen or so of the virgins anyway?"

"What ever you do Abu, don't let your pack get damp."

"Don't put the pack on a ramp. OK, we are ready for the operation."

well they apparently have killed one of the suspects......story here

Last time I checked, over here, we aren't allowed to shoot suspects once they're down.

i think the basis is they`re possibly carrying suicide bombs, there was some stuff about this guy having wires poking out of him or somesuch, so orders are to shoot for the head but 5 into the head at close range and they`ll have trouble IDing by dental records.

i read that he was wearing a large bulky coat and had been trying to evade police on his way to the station. with the fears of what may be under bulky clothes when he hit the ground they unloaded on him.

Frankly, I can't say as I blame 'em for unloading the rounds into him. If I had one of the terrorists from 9/11 down on the ground under those circumstances, I'd unload my weapon on him, too. I guess that makes me a bad human being, but I don't care.

While I'm fully in favoring of capping terrorists, I sure hope this doesn't turn out like "Top Secret!", where the police dogs are getting all over this guy, and the Gestapo haul him away, tearing open his package, out of which spill dog biscuits...

if i read correctly, this guy was already a target that they were attempting to pick up. he chose to evade, acted sufficiently suspicious, and *BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!* call it a day.

I'm just sayin' it makes the suspect more difficult to question ...

In other, more local news, there was a bomb threat called into a 911 dispatch center. Haven't heard anything about the resolution at this point.

I don't know if not hearing is a good thing, or a bad thing ...

Not sure about news but not hearing an explosion is a good thing.
I'm sure of that last one. :)

Well, it seems that my "Top Secret!" reference is indeed the case.

Innocent person executed by twitchy police on subway platform. Terrorists win again.

Don't tug on Superman's cape.
Don't spit into the wind.
And don't fuck around with London's Bobbies
when they're on high alert. :eyebrow:

gotta ask. i don't feel like reading everything at that site. is that a real product or is it a gagsite?

It's real.

$160?! I'd even buy some, as humorous gifts for specific members of my family, but not at that price.

They're only $145 if you buy two or more ...

From the same site as the one selling those key chain thingies:

You do not want to get stuck and/or become a refugee being herded along with panicked masses. If evacuation is truly a viable option, do not wait - GO NOW!

Just when I finally thought I'd put the 50's behind me... :mg:

I just got back from a vacation to Maine. Driving up and back from DC, I saw probably 40 electronic traffic signs in various states asking me to report suspicious activity to Big Brother. The first one or two made me think. The next 38 just creeped me the Hell out. Fucking facists.

Seriously, what average person would really need one of those.. If I hear a big explosion in the city I work in, I'm getting the hell away. Not stopping to check if the radiation levels are low enough for me to stay in the flippin office :rolleyes:

Holy crap, I'm with you on that one. Makes me want to take those signs out with a shotgun, and I don't even like guns. :rar:
- Pie

You probably won't hear the dirty bomb. :eek:

it'd have to have a fair amount of explosives in it to get the radiation to spread as far as possible

Probably not, actually.

The "dirty bomb" scenario is the one that is most likely to cause chaos, havoc, and panic, the terriorism trifecta.

Very small amounts of radioactive material, gathered from much more easily acquirable sources can result in large scale disruption of everyday life.

If I was at all good at keeping track of my training manuals, I could go on at some length about accidental contaminations on which most of the scenarios are based.

See, this kinda shit goes down, I'm one of the people that's supposed to be running the wrong way. Sort of.

WMD is the current focus in disaster mental health response. Most of the folks that I have met at these trainings have taken it to get a day out of the office. I don't actually expect to see them out on a disaster ground in a hazard orange vest.

I know that I've posted this before, but if you want to have a better idea of what a dirty bomb attack is like, rent this movie. It may come back around on HBO.

I like the prospect of genocide (the industrial scale) and crime (the retail scale) even less than guns.

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership