Why didn't Hollywood save New Orleans?
 

I am just curious as to why we haven't heard anything from the likes of Sean Penn, Babs Streisand, Tim Robbins, Angelina Jolie, George Clooney, and the likes with the situation in New Orleans. They squawked and squawked about how bad the war was and blah, blah, blah, but now that we have a real emergency in our own Nation you don't hear a word from Hollywood. Why aren't the Hollywood Lefties forking over some of that "hard earned" cash they love giving away to foreign nations so much to help Americans? Or is helping out your own nation just not hip enough for their crowd? I don't get it. I mean they didn't even go on television to criticize W. for anything about it. Maybe they kept their mouths shut because if they did say anything people would start asking if they were going to help. I don't know. Something is rotten in New Orleans.

You're out of town and all, so here.

I watched about 30 mins today. Aaron Neville sang "Amazing Grace", it was beautiful.

More benefits scheduled Mr. Tinfoil. Sheesh. Find something real to be outraged by.
I agree with you, Mr. Gun, that something is rotten in New Orleans, but its someone's grandma sitting in her 5th day of human waste under 100 deg temps, not Streisand's checkbook.

You will be gratified to know that during the live telethon Friday (before the military arrived) rapper Kayne West, of his own brand of tin foil/frustration/horror/rich guilt, ranted emotionally about the dying saying that "Bush hates black people." Maybe you can use that. Enjoy.

Actually, he said Bush doesn't care about Black people.

The stars will arrive after the waters have receded and the shooting stops. Wouldn't want to break a nail. Are those guys packing to move to France yet? They promised!

Edit to add: I don't look to Hollywood for public policy decisionmaking, and I don't look to Washington for acting tips.

What do you look to Washington for?

Thanks for the correction: "doesnt care about".

Acting bad. ;)

Like a feather pass, you one-timed it. :)

Boy, do you have that backwards. There is more acting and media awareness and spin and selling in Washington DC than there is in Hollywood CA.

Maybe he does. Maybe he does not. But based upon the actions and promises of George Jr during this week in New Orleans and Washington DC, can you show me a single fact - a single act - that says he does not hate blacks? Regardless of whether the statement is true or not, bottom line - George Jr did not one act to dispell that hypothesis. George Jr did numerous actions to encourage the "He hates blacks" assumption. #1 on my list is all that food, water, and medicine that was not delivered by Air Force One.

Just the facts. Actions are the bottom line. Show me where George Jr did anything last week to dispell the rumors of racism. Show me. Even Laura Bush went to a Louisiana town that suffered no damage - Lafayette LA. Something about finding a more white town that was not denied food and water for four days? A racist would have done that.

At no time did I say George Jr is racist. But show us one action this last week that can dispell rumors. His actions were what a racist would have done.

And, to reference the original question, Kanye West was speaking between Mike Meyers and Chris Tucker, two Hollywood stars also helping with the telethon.

Fuck, I missed it, but I still want to know what the big hitters are doing. Where is Babs, Robbins, and Penn? Once again with the racecard...enough all ready. I'm sure there are a mixture of people there suffering. As long as people make issues race related America is going to be ugly. And the people mentioned above aren't Hollywood. Please don't call me Mr. Gun...nicotinegun, or gun. I don't like the Mr. or the Sir, people have the tendency to prefix onto my name. Anyhoo, where are they? Why aren't they forking over the cash like they do to foreign nations.

"Kneel before Zod."

What makes you think they aren't?

Tim Robbins
Angelina Jolie
Harry Connick Jr. and Russel Crowe (mov)

Not all of them will be in the news.

Not that it really matters what the celebrities are doing, but don't assume they aren't.

And where did Reagan fit in your philosophy? Schwarzenegger? Ventura? :lol:

Viggo Mortensen

Perfectly.

This racist propaganda is really starting to irritate me.

Don't listed to Jesse Jackson and Keynes. There are white people that are starving and dying, and creoles starving and dying and hispanics and chinese and all kinds of other people dying too.

NEWS FLASH:::

IT'S NOT ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE!!

It's about poor, sick, old and stupid people.

Those come in all flavors.

Please, stop buying into the race issue. It's not there. It's more a class issue.

Just read on the Guardian Unlimited (online version) that vacationing Brits were told, "sorry, find your own way out. We're here for Americans." If that's true---sheesh!

Important telethon update!

The first and last four hours of the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon are going for Hurricane Katrina relief.

Then don't respond with emotion (ie "irritate me"). Deal with the facts - bluntly. Show me where the president did one action to demonstrate he was not racist. Not one reason exists to believe this is an accusation of racism. To believe otherwise is to take what was posted completely out of context. It is a simple statement. Show me one action by George Jr during this New Orleans disaster that could demonstrate he was not a racist. It is a simple question of logic that requires a simple answer in logic. Show me.

um...he kissed two really attractive and recently washed black girls?

Too easy.

Thomas Jefferson kissed Sally Hemings, too. :eyebrow:

Racism is the simplistic, but passionate, historically based argument. Bye bye blackbird. And I can see how it would sting at bit.

Incompetence or racism? I'm going with incompetence exaserbated by classism and lack of political clout.

What was revealed to me was what living in poverty and/or being elderly during a natural disaster looks like. Desperate. Unfortunatly expendible. The working poor.

Why did it take so long to get the military there?
Should Bush get some blame? He's the CEO after all. He waited too many days, flew in, noted inadequacies and within hours the choppers landed and turned the tide. Why the wait? When Harry Connick can drive right in safely days ealier, why cant a truck of water or a bus? The excuses are so lame.
Glad that James Lee Witt, former kick ass FEMA director that Bush let go, was hired by Gov Blanco to coordinate there. Bet she's wishing she'd gone to the private consultant earlier.
Brown turns out basically to be a lawyer college buddy of Bush's campaign manager with little experience in disaster management. Hey who screened that application! (that's sarcasm)

Why didn't Hollywood save New Orleans ?

I would give one Oscar to GW Bush for his performance in "The fourth day after Hurricane Katrina".

And another Oscar for his shirtsleeves...



I don't know what's this story : "Thomas Jefferson kissed Sally Hemings". Can you help me ?

New Orleans, army, racism and black people remind me of a riot several years ago in the 80's, in... ? Los Angeles ?
Our police minister (Sarkozy, can be GWB's best friend) has recently said he wanted to "use the Karcher" in the suburbs of Paris (against people !)

It is widely known that Thomas Jefferson had a sexual relationship with (and I'm pretty sure children by) one of his slaves, Sally Hemings.

Earth to La La Land. Race and class are still inexticably meshed in today's United States. And just how many white and Chinese people did you see on the evening news awaiting rescue? Hello?

And you brought it up, not me, by the way. But since you mention it... :eyebrow:

Oh, yeah, BTW, if its a class issue that makes it better? HUH? What, the poor deserve to die and the rich get to live? :headshake

The Hurrican Machine: Black People Beware!!!!
 

TW said: "Show me where the president did one action to demonstrate he was not racist."

"Show me one action by George Jr during this New Orleans disaster that could demonstrate he was not a racist. It is a simple question of logic that requires a simple answer in logic."

.
TW, it sounds like you are saying W. has to prove he isn't a racist before he proves he is one. Maybe I am wrong here, but that is what I read. If that is what you are saying, show me one thing that says W. is a racist. And don't give me the typical "he hasn't done anything for black people, blah, blah, blah." I can show you Robert Bird (sp) is a racist. You have to prove you aren't something in order to not be accused of it from the start? Maybe I misunderstood your post. Maybe I'm off the lane here, but what you wrote sounded like that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I still think the Bush Administration created a machine that can create and manipulate hurricanes and did so in New Orleans to specifically target the black community. That's racist, Man. Can you believe an administration would do that? It's horrible

This is the tw take on it, then, and it's quite familiar because it's been the same refrain for years:

1. Bush had his magic make-everything-better wand, and callously refused to wave it because the people he'd wave it at were black.

2. To show otherwise, you have to prove a negative.

3. If you can't prove a negative, you are deficient in logic.

Sean Penn is on CNN right now, he's down there working in N.O. Although he used most of his CNN airtime criticizing the feds

Hey UT, send them some zuchinnis. ;)

I'm sure a lot were the working poor, but many of them were said to not have the gas money to get out because the evacuation came at the end of the month and their checks come on the 1st and the 3rd. Social Security and welfare?
I have heard the argument that being seperated and end up living in other places may have a good effect in the long run because there were a lot of families that had generation after generation learning to live off the government. One young lady on TV said all she got out with was her babies SS cards and birth certificates...............

No, but he did have a responsibility to appoint people to head agencies to protect the most vulnerable. FEMA and Homeland Security appointees should be selected based on skill, not political expediency.

There appear to be three classes of people in his cabinet. The first are competent people that he knows personally and listens to. The second are incompetent people that he knows personally and listens to. The third are competent people that he does not listen to.

The FEMA director sounds like #2. Homeland Security head Chertoff makes me miss Ridge, who as a former governor would have known what was needed. Of course one reason Ridge might have left the job was that he realized that he could not get things done there.

Bush seems very reluctant to fire his friends, no matter how incompetent. it will be interesting to see how he can save Brown and Chertoff from what even he has acknowledged was an 'unsatisfactory' performance.

This really is a 'barn door' administration. They are completely reactive to all threats, from terrorism to infrastructure. Doesn't anyone there practice 'hope for the best, plan for the worst'?

Maybe if someone had mentioned the freezer full of dying embryos somewhere downtown we would have had a faster response. Since each one is a 'life', does that mean we should add 500,000 to the death toll?

FEMA isn't a cabinet-level post.

Well it would appear Mr. Penn's effort was a failure.

update, and then later a success

That question was posted so that it would test your abilities to think logically. The question implies nothing. The question does not accuse George Jr of being a racist. Clearly the question was intentionally written to test responders. Can you simply answer the question OR do you have personal agendas that would distort the question?

Simply provide an example that George Jr is not a racist. After all, his appointments, promises (lies), and actions clearly left large numbers of blacks dead due to lack of food, water, and rescue. When such failures occur, the top man must fix the management problem immediately or be part of the problem. That being a basic definition of management as defined by William Edward Deming as demonstrated by his famous bead experiment. Even inaction by management is intentional action. And so we again ask, what did George Jr do that demonstrates he is not a racist.

Notice how UT uses his 'aluminum tubes are for WMD' reasoning to twist what TW has asked. I simply asked a simple question. UT attached personal baggage to the question. All I asked was So far the only logical reply was that he kissed some blacks that were showered, vetted, and carefully screened. George Jr will not go among the refugees of New Orleans. Four letter words from the audience make bad press. IOW the only reply that suggests he is not a racist is a staged photo op.

Answers to that question might be taken forward to other speculations or used to comprehend public reaction. But none of that was asked here. The question was intentionally phrased to expose who could stay logical and who would even attach their emotional baggage to that question as an opportunity to insult. Thank you, UT, for again demonstrating why your logic insisted those aluminum tubes were for WMDs.

I told you that every time you bring up the aluminum tubes again, I would find another place on the Cellar where you were mistaken.

In this thread, tw blamed the breakup of the space shuttle Columbia on Bush budget cuts for NASA. "George Jr's massive spending cuts imposed on NASA to put money into boondoogles such as the anti-ballistic missile system." However, when pressed, tw could not identify any such budget cuts, and actually failed to reply at all until pushed hard. It turned out there had actually been a 1/2 Billion increase. tw was wrong.

They don't want them either.

I warned you about the zukes.

A white man can never prove that he is not a racist. It is automatically assumed, and much like an accusation of child molestation, the taint can never be removed.

Ok, technically FEMA is no longer a cabinet level post, having been demoted beneath the Department of Homeland Security.

Heres a nice article on Destroying FEMA

I agree with you, it's horrible and technically it's difficult to believe in.

But as an ideology we don't need to believe, but look back at history :
- Nazi's administration planned industrial extermination of Jewish, Tziganes, Blacks, Gays, Disabled...
(Extermination camps were tried by Germans in Africa, in Namibia in 1904 (before Hitler) against the Herero tribe).
(Nazis reached the power democratically)
- French WW2 Vichy administration against Jewish too... Trains were arriving on time.
- Communist administration in URSS (goulags)
- and so many others

I don't say that's what happened in NO.

But some peole are so in lack of humanity that they can imagine the worst against people they feel different.
If they've got the power, the administration they control can realise their crazy ideas, using the most efficient technologies.

Well, Wolf I don't know about NEVER, but the tragedy of our country is that Jim Crow is still alive and well, although now mostly underground. My father was 1/2 Cherokee and looked full blooded Cherokee. He did run into prejudice, especially back in the 50's and 60's. I look much like my Swiss Mom, so no problem. But its out there. Believe me, its out there, although getting better.

In the Associated Press's article the black guy has looted a grocery

In AFP'one the two white ones have found bread and soda

Seems like a private company took over disaster management for New Orleans.

I suppose they're fired?

They are different news agencies.

AFP = Agence France-Presse

AP = Associated Press

Learn to read before you spout off "racism" that someone has shown you. It could be that they have different standards for captions. Perhaps one will not sue the word "looter." Just because the guy who I caught breaking into my house was black, I am not racist for calling him a thief.

Oh, I don't see the French as having any problem with the word "loot," especially on an international story. If anyone was going to be afraid of law suits, it would be the US news agency which used that term in our litigenous society. I think you are being just a bit disengenuous here.

The problem would arise if you call the black guy who broke into your house a thief, but called the white guy who broke in someone who was "borrowing" something. That's what those two news captions illustrate.

If UT read all of that previous discussion, first the shuttles needed $2.2 billion of upgrades. Second, the ISS was comsuming another $8 billion. So George Jr only gave them $0.5 billion - and UT does not call that a funding increase? Furthermore, Columbia needed a major refurbishment. Therefore Columbia was to be retired rather than spend money. Instead, under George Jr, Columbia was not retired and a minor (considered insufficient) refurbishment was performed. They did not provide the necessary money.

Meanwhile TW never said the Columbia was exclusively a result of George Jr bean counting - as UT misrepresents. Cost cutting was discussed early as a contributing factor. Later posted were the reasons for that disaster from the investigation report: Curious. Management failures were responsible for both disasters. Cited by other sources is the lady boss who specifically stopped every engineer attempt to save seven lives.

Ironically, the reason for so many deaths in New Orleans is the same reason for death of seven Columbia astronauts.

Meanwhile, UT started this by taking cheap and insulting shots at TW. My response to his interpretation: a classic example - Pearl Harboring of Iraq by promoting a lie - those alumunim tubes. No way around this fact when one posts insults rather than stick to logical responses.

Original question is easy to answer IF personal biases are kept out. Show me where George Jr is not acting as a racist? Amazing how that is converted by UT into some kind of political statement, instead of a simple question of fact.

Rather than continue with these childish and irrelevant accusations, UT, why not instead answer the original question? Its not difficult to keep your political baggage out of a simple question. Its an easy question to answer. Swallow your personal agenda (don't act like a Fox News reporter) and stick to facts. That is not what you did when you kept hyping those aluminum tubes for a mythical WMD. It's just not a difficult question. Show me.

Sorry to interrupt your hissy match with UT, but I can't help but be curious, tw. Why do you refer to yourself in the third person as in "Meanwhile TW never said..."? I know that in formal writing it is frowned upon if one uses the first person since it is a given that the writing is done from the author's perpective. However, even if you are attempting to follow the Chicago Manual of Style here in the highly informal cellar, wouldn't you write, "Meanwhile, it was never said..."

I just mention this because everytime you do this it throws me for a moment and I have to go back and check who wrote the post. I'm retarded I know.

OK, carry on!

maybe it's a literary tick.

http://cellar.org/2005/racistbush.jpg

http://cellar.org/2005/racistbush1.jpg

http://cellar.org/2005/racistbush2.jpg

http://cellar.org/2005/racistbush3.jpg

No, Bush isn't a racist. He's an Ivy League snob that has no use for poor people.
If your Daddy ain't rich, you obviously come from poor genes. ;)

Does it bother those when it is not done the traditional way? Good. The message is still correct. Make them start thinking ... innovatively.

Meanwhile, this should sound familiar. "I don't post politically correct. I post bluntly." If that means upsetting English teachers by changing perspectives - then good. I have less respect for those who portrary things in terms of phallic symbols and innuendo rather than stating the point bluntly. Instead some people insist mixed perspectives violate English teacher grammar rules. Intolerance.

For reasons I can only speculate, UT replied with a pissing contest rather than answer a simple question. Maybe those mixed perspectives so bother him as to post accordingly? Ask him. Somehow he cannot even answer the simple question without attaching personal bias.

Rather amazing how one can ask a question right at the heart of racism and get a distorted and emotional reply with so much innuendo attached. Or does too much first and third person make people emotionally distraught? One thing we do know – I posted no phallic symbols. If I had intended to say “Fuck you”, I would have said it up front and bluntly – or maybe in 'third person' to only add insult. Such phrases don't provide logical value to the simple question: Apparently the only answer is in a photo op (sometimes called acting) where the people are carefully screened - and not from New Orleans. It is an answer; apparently the only one that anyone can provide. A 'smoking gun' answer would have George Jr personally firing Michael Brown and personally taking charge until another could be found. That is but one example of what a real leader would have done.

Yeah, yeah UT. Bush pays people big bucks for all those nice photo ops, and they're earning their pay. So fucking what? Where was Bush when the Republican party tore the funding for those levee's and pumps down to nothing? Where was he when their brothers and fathers and sons got sent off to Iraq? How come he has consistently cut funds for housing for the disabled and battered women trying to escape with their children away from an abusive environment? Yeah, Mr. Compassion George. Got any more fairy tales for us? :eyebrow:

Nah, I'll tolerate it, tw. Its just an unusual manner of posting and, like I said, it throws me sometimes. Thanks for the explanation.

This cracked me up. In third person, I think you'd have to say "TW will fuck you." :lol:

You can't have it that way, nor try and have it both ways, RichLevy: were they completely reactive, they wouldn't have taken the proactive step of going to kill the terrs in their own back yards, but instead have forted up behind our borders.

Turning to the ever-odious TW: stop demanding that we prove a negative, you rounded and pink ass. That is what you allege will be what satisfies you, as here: We're wise to your dishonest little game. You got called on it back on page 2 of the thread, yet you still do it! Are you stupid, or simply evil? You deserve to have your head held under floodwaters -- nice stagnant ones full of corrosive and human waste. Your head will not emerge in especially worse shape from this treatment than the condition in which it entered, you damned ambulatory bad example. Do you live to make your ideas look bad? -- if so, you have succeeded superbly.

Oh, Urbane, you're back. We were so hoping you'd been visiting down in New Orleans. Oh, well. :p

[quote=tw] "Can you simply answer the question OR do you have personal agendas that would distort the question?
Simply provide an example that George Jr is not a racist. And so we again ask, what did George Jr do that demonstrates he is not a racist."

I guess we would have to see the reaction of the administration if something like this occured in a largely white community. We can only guess until that point, or until we see W. in a KKK uniform burning a cross in Condi Rice's front lawn, which I know we will never see, or he frees the slaves, which I know we will also never see because there are none.
We must also take into consideration the environment and how difficult it is to get to the people. Also consider divising a plan that would get food and water to the people without creating a riot. Think of how the people would rush a truck full of food and water.
As far as an agenda, I don't want a situation to be turned into a racial thing without proof. I don't like to see race used as an issue in any case, Black, Brown, White, or otherwise.

[quote=NICOTINEGUN] Your response is admirable. However given that others need something positive or specific to feel otherwise and considering facts of this past week; the race card is being played daily. Look at all those pictures of George Jr on his latest photo shoot in MS, et al. You tell me he is not trying to fix his PR from Friday by challenging the race card. The race card exists no matter what you want because race is part of a first impression AND we all (unfortunately) judge based upon first impressions. First impression from this event - mostly blacks were left in the city to drown and then left for four days without food, water, or medicine.

Considering the facts of New Orleans, the race card was played long ago whether you like it or not. Gossip is only left to decide who played it first. And the list of players does include this president.

There is much credibility to the accusation that such would never have been permitted to happen in Orange County. One could not dispute that. Again, the only question remaining is why? Race, political influence, or money?

At any rate, given answers to the original question, it would be impossible to not have the race card played. Damage has been done. If not a race card, then something else must be to blame. And with spin, they must try to deflect blame away from presidential competance. Clearly not on the list of suspects is mother nature even though spin doctors will try that tactic as well. Something or someone must be blamed. If not the leadership's intellect, then why not racism?

A curious question for students of spin. Notice the only reason given to prove the president not a racist are the staged photo oppurtunities. Like it or not, the race cards are being played even by this White House.

:confused:
I don't like your too emotional answer. :mad:
This subject seems too sensitive for you. Read my message again.
Meanwhile you're right : this example would be stronger if the two captions were written by only one news agency. (AP or AFP, that doesn't matter).

Thank you Marichiko again

When using the metaphor "play the race card" only the first player to play the card can be said to be "playing the card", or the metaphor fails. The first player to play the card was tw.

As usual, I have to say, I dislike being the one to defend W. But to look at the whole big picture and decide that race has anything to do with it is to take the very stupidest of possible criticisms. It's like criticizing Hitler because his mustache was silly.

We could take a timeline of Katrina and suggest what the possible choices and actions would be at each point on the line, and ask who should be making decisions and taking action. Instead we are on this moronic jackoff about race because we want to explore the darkest possible motive in W's heart. Why?

It's self-indulgent, unhelpful and, as Mike Moore found out, unproductive. Like the constant drum beat of "lies" wrt WMD, the public sees through such self-indulgent crapola as name-calling and not truly germane to the real discussions that make things work. (Please, no WMD sidebar, this is just an example.)

You talk about these things instead of having intelligent discussion.

To continue the discussion after the photos is just an attempt to continue to control the agenda and keep it on the self-indulgent crap. I'm not playing after this post, so you will have to play with yourself, t. Control all the agenda you like. Talk amongst yourself.

Lastly, somebody doesn't understand what the upset would be to the process, of setting Air Force One down in the middle of a lawless flooded sector of town so the Pres could get his feet wet pretending to care. Someone may not have heard that it was discussed and there was a rational decision made about that. It would interrupt everything else that is happening on the ground in that area, just to get the shots that tw wants. Frankly I would rather have him hugging people in the safe zone for a day. I guess I'm racist.