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lumberjim 06-23-2019 09:13 PM

It doesn't really matter why. Knowing why isn't going to help you fix it. So what will?

Forgive yourself. You did those things because that's the amount of self awareness you had in that moment.

Now your eyes are open more. You see what you target. Fix it. Take responsibility for it.

That's both of them telling you that.

Undertoad 06-23-2019 09:52 PM

Not looking to fix me, curious about why that is the human condition. How humanity actually works, what is at the root of us.

lumberjim 06-23-2019 10:35 PM

I'm looking to fix me

fargon 06-24-2019 09:05 AM

There is Nothing Wrong with you.

lumberjim 06-24-2019 09:44 AM

there's nothing wrong with me. There are things wrong with my habits and my body. I'm 325 lbs, and smoke cigarettes. I have to take pills daily to manage my blood pressure and cholesterol. That's stupid and dangerous. I also drink more than is healthy. I very rarely get drunk, but I drink at least 2 beers a day. 6 or 7 on a weekend night. these things are fixable. I am working on them. I have a plan, and I'm working with my full attention on this current step. I'm going to get down to 300lbs, then quit smoking and start cardio. but right now, each day, I'm monitoring intake of calories and trying to stay in ketosis.

but yeah, nothing wrong... just the present situation.

lumberjim 06-24-2019 11:09 AM

Someone put the whole book up on youtube.

Got 7 hours to kill? it'll be worth it.

henry quirk 06-24-2019 12:12 PM

"self-hatred is just part of the human condition"

I don't hate me. I'm actually rather fond of me.

Is self-hatred really a fixture of the human condition, or is it just a bill of goods some folks got hoodwinked into accepting?

Simply: if you get folks to be profoundly dissatisfied, existentially dissatisfied, then you can sell 'em stuff, solutions, cure-alls, philosophies, ideologies, and on and on.

sexobon 06-24-2019 04:40 PM

That quote was preceded by:


… But let’s get real here. If we’re really honest with ourselves, we all have a little self-loathing going on from time to time. OK, maybe a lot of self-loathing going on, depending on the degree of trauma you’ve sustained, and how many episodes of Teletubbies you were subjected to as a child. ...
It was followed by:


… There’s nothing inherently “wrong” with you because you intensely dislike or feel ashamed of certain unsavory aspects of yourself. Everyone does. Even Oprah has to hate herself some of the time, I’m pretty sure. And I’m no exception either, of course. After all, I’m writing a listicle for a website — I must hate some deep, dark corner of myself. …
The meaning of the word hatred, in context, runs the gamut from a strong dislike of something to the worst possible feeling. It's not just a I don't deserve to live hatred. It doesn't have to be a continuous state. It can be temporary and have occurred at anytime during one's life.

The inherent ability to judge oneself, even harshly, is important to our adaptability between evolutionary changes. It's not all just built-in though. There are external influences that modify our views for better; or, for worse.

Undertoad 06-24-2019 04:56 PM

The Rule Two chapter starts by pointing out that, if prescribed medication, only 2/3rds of people will fill it; of the rest, only half will take it correctly. The most common reason for failure in kidney transplants is the patient doesn't take the anti-rejection medication.

But if we're given a prescription for our dog or cat, we are much more likely to fill it and administer it correctly.

henry quirk 06-24-2019 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 1034664)
That quote was preceded by: stuff

It was followed by: stuff

I hate myself for not catchin' all that stuff earlier.

lumberjim 06-24-2019 10:06 PM

How many of you are there?

lumberjim 06-25-2019 07:01 AM

On Peterson again...

I enjoyed the chapter on child rearing. Found that our opinions on it align. I recall a day when Spencer was 4 or 5. He had done something mean to his sister. I was not pleased. I swatted his butt. He turned to me, startled, asked, "was that a real one?". "Yesss" I growled.

Tears. I thought... He gets it. That's good dadding. Didn't hurt him at all, but he didn't want to disappoint or anger me. He'll make it.

Now on chapter 7 Jordan is discussing sacrifice and delayed gratification. The concept that the larger the sacrifice you make, the greater the reward. What's the ultimate sacrifice? Yourself? A child? Talks about Abraham and Isaac, Socrates. Comes quite close to the step that would connect this to Tolles work.

I thought as I listened:
He is saying in simplified terms that if you are willing to sacrifice yourself, you can gain entry to heaven. I hear Tolle say, 'Yourself' is your egoic, mind identified 'Me'. Heaven is inner peace or enlightenment. Just being free of that identification and finding the calm still place where the 'I' resides is the doorway to that inner peace.

So can you give up your identity? Should you?

Here again, I'm struck by the contrast of the simplicity of Tolle's... angle?... and the complexity of most 'thinkers'. They are both essentially trying to assist you end Suffering. Tolle, through eliminating resistance, Peterson, through rules and modes of conduct that will generate optimal situations. I'm picturing these deep deep layered thought constructions Peterson takes us through as kind of a hole he's digging. Delving a lot into historical teaching and primordial instinctive impetus that drives us. He's trying to dig his way out the bottom of that hole by thinking more and more complex thoughts.

Tolle, by contrast, sees the thoughts weighing us down, causing us to sink into that hole. Simply letting go of the heavy thoughts will make you light enough to float to the top. The monkey could just release the treat, and he could get his hand out of the jar.

lumberjim 06-25-2019 08:30 AM

He gets real close to it again toward the end of the chapter. As I listen, it's about 20 minutes from the end of the audible audio book chapter 7. Talking about ideas. And to sacrifice your ideas allows you... The 'being' you to live on in freedom. Allow your ideas to die, so that you may live on...
I keep half expecting him to quote Tolle.

Diaphone Jim 06-25-2019 11:18 AM

Losing weight is really hard for everyone.
Quitting smoking is easy. I smoked two packs a day, every day, for fifty years.
About ten years ago I decided to quit. I found a really easy way to do it, did it and kick myself for waiting so long.
Even describing how to do it is easy. Ask me and I'll tell you.

lumberjim 06-25-2019 11:47 AM

Stop buying them

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