VW beetles had engines superior to Pintos. Even the deisgn of the Pinto engine as sold in Europe was a superior engine of its time. A Porche with a Pinto engine would be ugly because the Pinto version of that 2.3 liter engine was crap. What makes the Porche pretty? Certainly not its shape. Same applies to the TT. It is what is underneath that creates beauty.

More cars that dont suck
 

2003 Viper
<img src="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jdaniels150688/Images/03viper3.jpg">
<img src="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jdaniels150688/Images/03viper4.jpg">

i was joking. sorry it wasnt funny.

~james

Design News has just published its annual survey of engineers on cars.

Under $15K: best - Honda; worst - Kia

$15K to $25K: best - Toyota; worst - Hyundai

$25K to $35K: best - Honda Volvo Toyota BMW; worst- Ford

$35K to $45K: best - BMW; worst - Cadillac

$45K and up: best - Mercedes; worst - Cadillac

Car most owned by engineeers - Ford.

Most noteable change - engineers now prefer comfort over handling. This is attributed by the article to an aging engineering population. Consistent with another American trend that colleges graduate less engineers both in percentage and numbers. Last time this was a trend, America ended up in the recession many years later in late 70s and 80s.

In the 70s, 80s and 90s, there really are no classic American vehicles of mention. Nothing to compete with a mid-60s Chevelle, a 65 Mustang or its Shelby version, the 57 Chevy, the first T-bird and early Corvettes (when Corvettes were classy machines). Nothing in the early 1970s tops the German built Ford Capri or the Datsun Z series - especially the 260Z with its electronic fuel injection. The Mazda RX-7 is a most worthy example. Honda's NSX - the all aluminum car was special as is their S-2000 or BMW's Z coupe. Honorable mention to the DeLorean. Lotus Europa was indeed special. Mazda's Miata is a superb example of making an excellent sports car at a respectable price - and even earning a profit its first year out.

GMs long list of classics is a disaster list from the 4-6-8 Cadillac to the Oldmobile Diesel, the notch back Caddy, a Buick two seater (Regal?) whose body was built in Italy and shipped to the US on jumbo jets, Chevy Vega, Chevy Corvair, GM pickups with side mounted exploding gas tanks, the first GM V-6s that were nothing more than V-8s with two cylinders cut off (made obvious by how the engine vibrated), every 1970 and early 1980s GM 4 cylinder driven vehicle, and the so many GM cars (including Oldsmobiles with Chevy engines) that used a grossly undersized (and self destructing) Chevette transmission even in truck towing packages. Add to that list the Ford Edsel and Pinto, and the AMC Pacer. Classic list of shame mostly when bean counters designed all cars.

It occurs to me that, if that is the case, Toyota's US division needs to be lined up and shot. Toyota's marketing is just horrible, and Kia's, almost perfect.

Remember the Toyota "TV Guy"? A corporate shill so utterly annoying that it could only ruin the reputation of anything marketed with it. An idea worthy of selling... oh, I don't know, maybe candy or toys or something.

Subaru?
 

I thought I'd reprise this thread since we're not done shopping. We're starting to think that AWD is a necessity here rather than a nice option. I'm really tired of the Subaru Outback, visually. We've been looking at the new Impreza no two-tone paint, Subarus long term knowlege of AWD, etc... The gas mileage cannot touch the VW diesels. Toyotas little AWD wagon looks like it'd be hard to see out of... Anybody have Subaru knowlege?

Yup. I don't care how bad their cars are -- I want a Sale Monkey, dammit.

I love my 1993 Subaru Impreza. No AWD, but I'm in the South so I didn't need it. It's got 109,000 miles on it now and it has been 100% dependable. All I've ever had to do is get regular maintenance.

Of course now that I've said that "out loud," I am ready for the wheels to fall off ...

My Grandma got an outback she really likes it, I got to drive it around and thought it was impressive. Really good handling. I didn't drive it in winter so don't know how it handles ice and snow pack but I bet it would do pretty well.

Speaking of Subarus

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze...imprezawrc.jpg

My precious....:D

Damn, I love pro-rally.

Cool! Maybe impreza is the answer.

You could get one of the WRX models - pretty zippy, I hear. And not bad looking, either.

I can only assume that engineers would get major wood over this little gem, then...

http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/index.asp?bhcp=1

And for those who cannot abide Flash Animation download times, here's a drooler pic.