A Rural Area with Moderate Politics
 

There has been loose talk of relocating Grifftopia for retirement. Pete and I would rather be in the mountains maybe on a river. 10+ acres within an hour or two of good paddling, hiking, mountain biking, etc...

One holdup is right wing Boogaloo culture. We are living in it here and it appears to be if not growing, more active and vocal. Pete is getting nervous about our neighborhood.

I'm looking to find a place not exceedingly far from Philly and Boston. My natural inclination is the Adirondacks since we know them well, but it appears price and politics are linked. The more right wing an area is the lower the housing costs, so I'm looking for some balance. I'm wondering if Vermont might have some options but I don't know the scene.

Will there be an issue selling Grifftopia, since you built it by hand without a mortgage lien for paperwork?

I imagine the selling price will be lower due to the owner-build, but the lack of lien won't matter as we exist on paper at the court house. There are 50 acres and full mineral (gas) right to balance the owner-build. I would think marketing it as a hunting camp could be a good strategy. This area also has very low taxes which you can tell by the schools or by reading local Bacefook. lol

I'm seeing attractive Vermont properties under 200k so it's possible we won't take a beating on this place. We also need more snow, which I failed to put in my initial post. Vermont has a lot of skiing infrastructure which is cool.

Don't know about affordability, but I hear parts of Colorado are also on that reasonable border between liberal and conservative.

Griff, what are you considering Moderate politics? Something like this?

(pictured: 2016, and 2012 general election results from my county)

Flint, you do nice work.

That would look moderate to me.

Of course I'm from here:

county:

I like the idea, but we want it to be driveable for the girls.

RUUUUUUNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

:bonk:

Of course you've take into account one or both girls might move at any time. If you lived in a motor-home you'd be all set. ;)

When I was in Upstate NY our district looked more like flints except slight majority Republican. I found Moderate Republicanism to be acceptable in that time and place. I guess the Gingrich revolution and Fox News have worked their magic.

The "get your guns out the election is fake" was ramping up when I left Facebook. Now that white people have been given the thumbs up on showing up armed for political events, I wonder how the Super-Patriots will react if Trump fails to steal the election? If he does manage a steal, I wonder how Democrats will fair in the streets? I will still remove all political signage the day after the election, a nicety Cult 45 has not maintained.

/rant

I'm guessing most truly rural places have become similarly radicalized. I guess pulling voting districts out of the record would be helpful. Keeping an eye out for a purple rural town.

I don't know what to tell you other than tensions are high as ƒuck in our 50/50 community.
Things might even get more tense the more balanced it is, because someone has a higher number of people to be mad at, idk.

The only reason Trump wants to win is ego, he's stolen so much already, made lucrative connections, big pension and bennies for life, and has a laundry list of people/plots to blame a loss on.
I wouldn't be surprised if he has his fingers, or at least friends fingers, in this $10 Billion vaccine slush fund.
I admit my dislike for the scumbag makes me prejudiced.

As long as he's paying taxes it's on the books in his name.

I was wondering about that. Balance used to lead to compromise but that's a bad word now.

It certainly is, why it's the same as losing...

Limey sent me a nice option in Maine. I do appreciate the politics up there and the rivers are nice. Political races are competitive and unaffiliated voters have a lot of sway. Unfortunately, Maine is soooooo far from the girl in Philadelphia that I think Pete would lose her mind.

I'm seeing some good options in Vermont.

vermont is cool and definitely a better place to be Right About Now than, yknow, most places

Hey Ibby! Good to see you. How're things?

well the world's ending but other than that, well, yknow

A better built world could be on the other side of this mess.

Griff, I don't know about you, but I can keep in mind that not one person of any complexion other than Caucasian has been forbidden to show up armed for a political event. I say unwarp your view.

Relatedly, I propose to you a thought experiment. I refuse to give any thought whatsoever, or to give any weight, to matters of complexion, race, religion, national origin (comes naturally of being an individualist). Now then: what if simply everybody did so; what would be the likely outcome?

Ah, Bruce: he had those before he was elected, and honorably does not indulge in something like these now, as President. Guy ain't even written an Enemies List. A big piece of this Administration not doing what the Party out of power accuses it of hourly is that just as hourly, they don't have the energy or the time.

I say this as one who didn't vote for him. The first go-round anyway. Then he started doing all this Libertarian stuff, which the punditocracy seems collectively unable to fathom.

Since I am the soul of unprejudiced, I find a lot in your stance to disagree with. Wanting to believe only Trump wants Trump reelected is very silly of you.

It will be a bloodbath.

I should expand on that. Trump continuously calls into question the validity of the election while maintaining a dodgy relationship with the totalitarian Putin and actively trying to break the postal service when people need it for among other things voting during a pandemic. If the streets fill up with angry armed folks of all political stripes, we could get the banana republic Trump appears to want. More stable personalities will be on the sideline because they don't generally walk into likely shooting events. If we would commit to the democratic process and developing good responsive governance this rancor could be channeled into the system. We have a choice and guns in the street is a poor one. Don't think that the right has the exclusive power of armed mob violence.

so to sum up your theory is that if Trump doesn't win he will get the banana republic he wants

Only if he refuses to lose gracefully. If he doesn't win and he loudly decries the election as rigged/illegitimate (which I think it's safe to assume he will, whether or not he actually believes in his heart that it is,) then yes, there will be small, but definitely armed, protests. If he wins, there will be massive, possibly armed protests.

The only way the election settles things down, rather than escalates them, is if Trump loses, then says, "Good, because I hated this job and would rather go back to making bajillions of dollars. You idiots get what you deserve." It would save face, and calm his more ardent followers rather than encouraging them to take to the streets. But he's not going to do that.

so to sum up your theory is that if Trump loses poorly or wins he will get the banana republic he wants

Griff, you have not grasped which part of that post was the thought experiment.

Indeed, Fobble? Will you be there, under arms?

Being in the Oval Office without being Hillary Clinton is still not an actionable offense -- it's really quite a decent thing, forestalling the Mistress of Corruption, who it seems refuses to take the ethical road regardless of situation. Money, shilled up via their Foundation from influence peddlers, is those two's God.

Always remember that with Pennywise the President, there are no principled beliefs, no considered positions, no truth that survives a day and no lie that can't be told.
We need to be prepared for a massive infantile tantrum from the most powerful man in the world.

so to sum up our theory is he's continuously all of that level of ridiculousness, while at the same time capable of gimping the operation of the US Postal Service without people knowing

capable of doing the thing everybody knows about without anybody knowing?

as in, like, gradually training people to not believe their own eyes, just like has happened in every country that we assumed to be a stable democracy that suddenly, precipitously toppled into far-right fascism, as is, you know, the current trend in global politics? in the real world of things that are actually happening and should definitely be worried about?

I don't claim to know what Trump personally wants--it seems to change moment to moment anyway. I do know that Putin, for one, wants us unstable and at each other's throats, and he's very much gotten it, regardless of how much influence he may or may not have had in that outcome. You yourself noted awhile back that civil war is very much a possibility in the current political climate, and I think we've come closer to it in the last four years, not farther. I think Trump is a perfect example of the "take everything personally," "view my opponents as inherently evil," tribal-behavior-stoking attitude that you've decried in the past. I'm not saying Trump is a mastermind, I'm just telling you what I think will happen in each election scenario. Whether any of those scenarios ultimately ushers in a banana republic remains to be seen, but it's a fact that Trump has floated the idea of delaying the election, and threatened not to leave office if he loses. Both are banana republic behaviors, not functioning democracy behaviors.

so to sum up our theory is that fascism will be carefully implemented by a boorish clown with little charisma who is hated by 90% of the press, 90% of the intellectual class, and 90% of urban elites who control 95% of the cities and there is not a DAMN thing anyone can do about it

I noticed the division and started considering the terrible possible consequences in 2013 when he was still just a boorish TV personality

Please share your direct evidence of this

oh, of course he didn't say that (unless he did), and if he did, he was just joking, or sort of suggested something that may or may not be taken that way. all around perfectly normal and not worrisome behavior. it's "all good"™

Good post though Clod, I think what will probably happen is not outright civil war but a division of the country with separate laws and structures. At first, states will vote to secede so Griff should choose the rural section of a solidly blue state. Over time, counties of those states will also divide, so NY is right out and it will have to be VT.

to sum up that is my theory

unless you are getting death threats from Trump supporters and have had to beef up your firearms preparedness for a very real, bloody civil war that is literally being threatened to you personally, at your doxxed home address, LIKE I AM, then I'm not super invested in your theories about who can or cannot stage a fascist takeover. the reality-defying supporters of the god-king-cult leader have been spooked into collecting huge amounts of guns and ammunition for decades now. when it hits the fan, who the ƒuck cares what intellectuals and urban elites think? THEY WILL JUST SHOOT THEM*

*me

It's embedded in a news report, but the audio of Trump starts at 1:02:



And yeah, it's presented as "a joke," because that's how he always floats ideas, so he can backtrack if it's received badly. But it's polarizing, and he knows it. A lot of people think trolling is harmless fun, but I think it's bad for everyone.

I can certainly see it happening that way. My guess is Texas would be one of the first.

I live in the rural section of a solidly blue state and it is the absolutely most life-threateningly dangerous place to be right now. The anger against the democratic leadership is palpable, and overflowing in the threat of violence spilling into our streets and homes.

No need for quotes around a joke, it clearly is. I agree that it is bad for the everyone. I don't find it to be proof of anything. Do you have an example of something he floated as "a joke" that he did not receive pushback on and then implemented?

This is a terribly regrettable incident

Downtown, they set an actual pig's head on fire and projected a large laser image on a building of a cop/pig with Xs over its eyes - and this was celebrated live by ~2000 people. If a death threat to you personally is a sign of ascending Fascism, do *those* death threats mean that Communism is ascendant, as some would have us believe?

He has frequently floated pardons for his staff and associates as a joke* (after jokingly asking them to commit crimes), then actually followed through on a number of questionably-motivated pardons**, most especially Roger Stone.

*https://napavalleyregister.com/opini...5f2ad93dc.html

**https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_Donald_Trump

(Apologies for not embedding the links, I'm on my phone and can't get the href tags to work right.)

Admittedly, it's not like he's the first President to give out transparent pardons. Clinton certainly did it, though he had the fake-propriety to only do it right before leaving office. And just like Ford pardoned Nixon, I feel relatively sure that Biden will pardon Trump for the things he's eventually convicted of, in the name of healing.

Yes, of course. History is a series of rising tensions spilling over into violence in order to precipitate change. It's foolhardy to believe we're the exception to this-- the oldest story in the book™

I wish everyone would forget everything they learned in third grade civics, and quit treating America like some extremely are and special exception to the immutable laws that govern literally every other human civilization, ever.

Unfortunately your theory has merit. This outcome creates a mess here and leaves China largely in charge of humanity's future maybe an unstoppable outcome but not great for folks who don't 100% buy in see Uighurs.

Anyway, I'm not sure I have the stomach for a state fully in the bag for the left, hence my original ask about a moderate rural area. This thread was largely triggered by a constant anti-science bias I was getting from local family. Nobody is immune from not following the facts but in the pandemic it felt more permanent to me than it should have. I got thinking about how anti-education my relatives appear and how their kids and our economy could suffer for it. I think we're all more than a little on edge and I know I fall in that pattern of putting thoughts in other's heads when I'm stressed out. I had a good conversation with a Trump supporting uncle today so it isn't hopeless which is where my head had gone.

I still want to move to the mountains though.

Clod, floating pardons and then saying it was a joke is not the kind of joke we're talking about. Furthermore though, it seems to me the guy jokes about everything; which is reprehensible behavior from a POTUS, but it doesn't mean we get to consider eveything he jokes about as secret evidence of plans.

The thing is, in this case, it was the media that floated his refusal to leave office as fantasy fearbait. He often jokes about what the media says, and this behavior is rewarding for both of them; the media gets clicks and attention, and he gets to steal all the oxygen out of the room for any other topic or candidate.

One plain truth of the matter is this: all the actual power of the office is via the Constitution. If the court has determined that he has lost the election, and he does not voluntarily leave by January 21, 2021, no orders that he gives will be respected by anyone who has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution. The Secret Service will then remove him by force.

Humor takes many forms.
I hope someone can give an instance where Donald Trump showed he understands any of them.
Just one funny thing that he intended to be.

That would be disappointing. They should send the living former Presidents in to beat him up and drag him out... maybe a blanket party even.

That won't be necessary, he's a stone coward.

what I and, i think, a lot of people are more scared of than trump declaring himself president for life and the institutions of government supporting him, or whatever, is trump insinuating the election is invalid, attempting to delay certification of the votes or otherwise interfere in the handover of power, and sparking a wave of partisan violence around the country.

No matter who "wins", at this point, a huge proportion of the country will not consider the results valid. If Biden appears to win narrowly, the right-wing who believed Trump's bullshit about widespread voter fraud and jewish-i-mean-socialist soros manipulation and unhinged qanon conspiracies are not going to consider that a valid result, and given that an increasing number of them are convinced that just about any member of government that isn't Trump is a baby-eating human-trafficking secret new world order (again, read: "jewish") enemy of america, that's a recipe for widespread violence.

Considering that:
1. tens of millions of people are on the knife-edge of homelessness and eviction, and that the government is unwilling or unable to provide meaningful relief there, meaning that there's a huge chance that hundreds of thousands of people could be living on the streets during a pandemic;
2. COVID infection rates seem poised to only climb and climb unless the government takes action to return to some kind of lockdown and prevent the spread of infection, meaning that this will all be happening against the backdrop of either lockdown or an ever-growing death toll;
3. while the protests over police violence are somewhat dying down, there's every chance of them sparking back up, which has a high likelihood of being met with yet more police violence once again, and worse, from yet more right-wing terror attacks targeting protestors (usually with cars, taking a page from daesh's book);
4. the partisan sides of such a possible conflict barely agree on the very basic facts of reality in so many cases - in a conflict between left-wing partisans who believe that the government is actively literally trying to kill people for corporate profit (by refusing to take pandemic control measures) and is sliding rapidly and possibly inexorably towards fascism, and right-wing partisans who think a deep state conspiracy to traffic children is using a fake pandemic and a rigged election to push trump out of office, well, its hard to come to common ground without even agreeing on basic reality;

it's easy to see why people are afraid about what comes next.

There is this fantasy out here about secret universal Trump support, which is why Pete wants her Biden sign up. It is important for folks to know the other side exists right among them even if it might be a little dangerous. :(

God-damned well put. All of this. Thank you for summarizing these things-- I'm too emotionally exhausted to think about any of this long enough to form complete sentences-- basically all I do is listen to classical music and avoid any form of news or social media.

Without people knowing? He's straight-up bragged about holding up funding from the post office to block vote-by-mail.

Naw

When examining the numbers for the states, please use https://rt.live/ . For individual states the "Adjusted Positive Tests & Implied Infections" curve at the bottom. That shows what is actually happening.

The majority of states now have a decreasing infection rate...!

A wild number of variables at play here, but seasonality is going to remain a big one, as all the southern states rose at the same time (and now the western European states are having their second wave at the height of their summers) (and now Minnesota)

Meanwhile, NYC is at least 25% immune and went over an enormous mountain to get there, but has not seen a second wave. It's figured maybe this is enough herd immunity to keep it at bay, at the current level of restricted social distancing.

I can't follow it - the latest is that it's some sort of dispute over whether the items should be first-class or bulk rate?

Meanwhile I did learn that number of items the USPS carried has dropped every year since 2006. Still, last year, the USPS processed 142.6 billion pieces of mail.

With a flood of election year ballots, that could increase to 142.7 billion this year.

How much additional funding do they need?