humans
 

we tend to neglect looking at ourselves.
our actions as a species as a whole.
our perceptions, beliefs and fears can be blamed for our actions.

it is that which seperates us from all others species that causes our retardation.

i'd start a revoloution

I take no responsibility for what you humans do.:headshake

humans don't look at themselves? on what planet? humans are obsessed with their appearance!

Wtf? WHiP came out of the gambling thread?

Mere mortals.

He's realizing he can no longer be a one trick pony. :3_eyes:

He's ventured into other threads, just not loudly.

Reminds me of how good a shark steak can be.

or long pig inside a shark buried in coals for 24 hrs. mmmm.... good eatin'

Zeitgeist...oh dear.

Gesundheit!

The explosives on the Twin Towers section on Zeitgeist movie was a bunch of malarkey. My job for a long time in the Army was to figure out how much explosives it would take to do a job, like dropping a span on a bridge, how many man hours, how many vehicles to haul said explosives and all of the cordage and what not to hook up said explosives. for a job like the one described....the sections with the explosives placed on them would have had to have been uncovered, entire floors stripped so that work teams could have placed the explosives directly on the structural beams...on like every other floor. Wow, truck loads of of equipment and explosives for the size of that building. All while no one working in the buildings noticed?

The work would have had to have started years ago to keep it a secret. I don't think so.

The answer for the guys in the basement feeling the "explosion" first, energy travels faster down the structural beams, which are designed by the way, to transfer energy to ground. The plane hitting the building transferred a hell of a lot of energy, heck yea they felt in the basement.

I think what bothers me the most is that there are people who will watch a movie like this and take as gospel truth.

american minds don't seem to grasp the economical reality in the usa.
these powers they speak of, are not simply anti-human, they are also anti-american.
this shouldn't be a suprise to americans, who's fore-fathers warned of these powers emerging.[george washington, thomas jefferson]

regular joe, what bothers me the most is that there are people who will take anything as gospel truth.

substitute the words god and jesus with 'pink unicorn', and you'll see how many people in this world a truly insane.

what is the difference between god and the pink unicorn ?

Pink unicorns are real.

If God is all things then there would be no difference, I suppose.

The fact is that I cannot convince anyone else that God, or Pink Unicorns do or do not exist. We all must go on our own experience. I've had life experience that tells me the part of the movie Zeitgeist that that deals with explosives is wrong. I can tell you what I think about the other two parts, but I really have no experience with theology or banking. It certainly sounds interesting.

I'm not sure what your point is through all of this yet, I think your brain is bigger than mine. Would you break it down Barney style for me?

Where do they sell roasted "Pink Unicorn":p

Both have a penchant for virgins?

One can see both while tripping on acid?

I love you
You love me
it's a conspir'cy
the-or-y
put a foil hat on your head
dig a bomb shelter
get yourself an R-P-G.

as real as god is

thats about the best answer anyone could possibly give.

my objective is to get humans to stop pointing at other humans as if they're another species.

humans have a hard time grasping what their own nature is.
your nature is not that of a loving, kind, gentle species.
thats called conditioning, its the result of powers, controlling the masses.
human nature is of war, murder, theft and rape.
even with the man made penalties for some of these natural actions of ours, we continue to do them at record breaking rates.
not a point in our recorded history shows us doing otherwise.
the nature of a species can be determined by observing the actions of a species through-out years of observation.
after observing our kind, it is safe to say, without doubt, that all the above, are human nature, wether you like it or not.

humans tends to create a seperation, between themselves and the rest of humanity, wether it be a religious seperation, or a race seperation, or even a seperation of nations.
imo, this is so wrong..... a christian would say that the people that are doing these actions are all going to hell while the rest of us are going to heaven, or they're black and we're white, or their anti-american and we're american.
regardless of what side of these seperations you're on, you're missing the point.
you are human, what you lack, is the true reality of what that means.

if there is something devine about us, it is not this temporary vessel we're in.

Agreed. And that is a big IF there is something divine about us.

The good and the bad go together, but mostly humans are good. Look around you. Seriously. Right now. Look around the room. Everything in your sight was built by another human being. They cooperated with you, or they cooperated with someone who cooperated with you, so you could have all this stuff. You have a roof over your head, and you didn't built it. Don't tell me that humans suck. You owe your entire lifestyle to the kindness of strangers. Who grew your food? Who wove the cloth in your clothes? Who built your house? Other humans.

there is no good and bad.
your perception of good is actually bad in anothers perception.
most people in ignorance would assume that reproducing is good and murder is bad.
in this day and age, its quite the opposite way around.
reproducing this species when we've already surpassed the 7 billion mark would be a bad thing.
murder on the other hand, given our numbers and actions, is a blessing.

these things you mention are our crimes.
serving humanity at the expense of all other life.

what action of ours has benefited anything on this planet, other than ourselves.
what is it that were doing exactly that would place us, in our minds, superior to any other life form... certainly not our actions.

other than the theories of jesus and pink unicorns, which are simply imaginary retardations of our mind, we hold no purpose here, other than the selfish destruction of all that is around us, without an glimmer or respect for anything.

I though you were talking about human nature towards one another. You were talking about war and crime and shit like that. Not pollution.

But even so, we don't live at the expense of every life form. There are billions and billions of life forms on this planet that owe their very existence to humans. Start with the bacteria in your gut and work your way up through the cockroaches and rat and pets and livestock.

ok - wtf? now I'm really depressed. . . sulks away.

i was talking about human nature.
this planet may be crude by nature, but we take the cake.

so the man tells the people, and then the pink unicorn said unto me 'yada yada yada'.
who is more insane?
the person talking, or the people listening, believing, and teaching their children what the pink unicorn said through this man?

the real funny thing, is that the people in power today, are still speaking of pink unicorns.... and you're voting for them.

Since the pink unicorn doesn't exist, it really doesn't matter. How could we possibly commit crimes against anything, everything is the result of random mutation, one mutation has more of an advantage over another. There isn't even anything like free will involved, just the illusion. A chemical oddity of our brain matter. Even the guy teaching about the unicorn has no real choice in the matter, he's just part of the fabric.

If this is all true, then why should I be upset about the natural course of things?

Am I missing the point?

the guy teaching about the pink unicorn is insane, as are the people believing what the crazy person said.
today, the man would be institutionalized.
of course, back then, people were more gullible.... so why do people still follow these crazy people from thousands of years ago?
no one is telling you to be upset... you can remain content with what you are.
i don't think so, the point is about self realization.
its about our species taking a good look in the mirror.

Thanks for the permission for me to be content with what I am. I appreciate that.

The guy teaching about God, or the Pink Unicorn is insane by whose standard? It really is a matter of perspective and belief, and perspective. Insanity is not a clear view of reality, or a view of something that isn't real. If I believe in God and you don't; you think I'm insane for believing in something that doesn't exist, and I think you are insane for not having a clear view of reality. We are not going to convince each other other wise.

jews believe all gentiles[non-jews], should be killed, and their children.
muslims believe all infidels[non-muslims] should be converted, or else killed.
christianity has killed more innocent people for not being christian than all other religions combined.
the pink unicorn, which ever one of the above he actually is, is one mean motherfucker.

hopefully all 3 pink unicorns are real, then we could erase the crudest species off this planet.... but no, that kind of blessing does not await this world.

Whippin post, did you really do that poorly in the football pool to take it out on all of humanity?:rolleyes:

i didn't particpate in the football pool.
not that winning or losing monopoly money would alter my emotions anyways.
whats wrong there classicman, is the topic to intense for you to particpate in?

not at all - Pink Unicorns are one of my strong suits.

By the way smartypants, Didja notice the smilie? (Hold your mouse over it and see what it says. :p

(just bustin' your chops there big boy)

i don't like pink unicorns.
there's been hundreds and hundreds of various pink unicorns through-out history.
pink unicorns can be held responsible for the stupification of our kind.
who knows how advanced we'd be if we we're free from these blind-folds.


i figured you were, its becoming a daily thing for you.
am i your obsession?

This topic isn't intense, just philosophical. The fact that you, being Canadian, directly benefits from a massive genocide and relocation of the native population along with the exploitation of people across the globe is an intense topic. Don't think that just because you live north of us doesn't mean you don't still benefit from the exact same things that you look down on us for.

there you go with the seperation thing again.
i'm speaking of humanity, as a whole, without any seperations.
we are a species that includes males and females of all races, from all nations.

all the damages that are made to this planet, are being made by us.
its not the cat or the trees or the fish, its us.
we're the bad guys.

and what is it that is causing us to be the bad guys?
is it not that which seperates us from all other species?
our mind.... which is dependant upon this temporary vessel.
if consciousness isn't dependant on this vessel, than it is a superior tool than this temporary one.
perhaps we're not all mature enough to function beyond this temporary self.

Yeah...our intelligence as a species definitely separates us from the rest of the life on Earth. We can think ahead and strategically, we can figure out our needs and then create tools that help us fulfill those needs, we can mobilize for war and we can compromise in tough situations, we can over consume resources and we can replenish environments.

This question is much more complicated then a simple yes or no. Much of our lifestyle is not sustainable but since we live in a world with boundaries, we will be forced to change.

perhaps it is the mind itself which is our greatest boundary.
speaking on a metaphysical level.

I disagree. What renders us capable of wreaking havoc might be our intellects. What actually makes us do it, can usually be found in the older parts of our brain. We just clothe it in philosophy or the skins of pink unicorns as a rationalisation of our animal instincts.

nah - just nice to interact a bit with you outside of the gambling threads.

the brain, thought ...thats what i was refering to.

killing off 90 percent of the shark population over the past 10 years, by catching them, cutting off their fins, and throwing the remaining body back in the water in order to sell a bowl of shark fin soup in the east for 100 bucks a bowl, is due to the belief that sharks have magical powers and keep people from getting cancer[false]

killing 1 miilion women[catholic church] because they had freckles or birthmarks[signs of satan], by burning them at the stake.

the poisoning of the air and the waters across the globe.

the imprisoment of all life forms.
our complete lack of respect when dealing with other species on this planet.
nagasaki, hiroshima... i don't care so much for the people lost, but our total lack of considering the rest of life that was lost and damaged.
we still, to this day have not considered it, not even for a second.

its our thoughts, our brain, our physical mind.... it is the cause for all these actions.

its all good classicman, i have been out before you know, you must have missed me.

The reptilian brain.

No, you were referring to this:

Our mind is what separates from other species and what allows us to cause such havoc. But it's our brains and specifically the older parts of it which lead us to act destructively, and competitively, and selfishly (as individuals or groups) and those parts of our brain are what link us to other species. The instincts which lead to our destructive behaviour are ancient and animal.


[eta] just as an additional point: religion doesn't create destruction and murderous intent; it can however be a vehicle for it. As can any mass concept. Religion stunting our development as a species can only really be argued against specific cases of development, applying it as a factor at a species level is too fraught with additional (often immeasurable) factors to be meaningful. What has potentially stunted our development as a species (and this only works if you believe there is an endgoal to our development, and a timeframe in which we ought really to have reached it, in other words an optimum speed of 'development') is us, specifically, our capacity for/instinctive desire to sublimate ourselves into a larger identity. Given that such an instinctive desire is most likely derived from a part of our brain much older than the mass identities we have fostered and given names to, one could make an argument for this being precisely where we 'should' be in our species' development.

Danac, i'm not quite sure where it is that we disagree.
i'm saying that the physical human brain is to blame for our actions.
you're saying the physical human brain is at fault as well, you're just being more specific.
you wanna elaborate, maybe i'm missing something that you haven't quite made evident

My point is that it isn't actually the pink unicorns which have retarded us. We haven't been 'retarded'. There is no end-goal. There is no optimum speed of development. The blindfolds are a part of what we are now. They are where we have developed to. Or more specifically, our capacity for blindfolding ourselves is where we have developed to. You can make specific arguments for the retardation of specific elements of specific societies/groups/communities, by particular stages in a particular pink unicorn's development...but that cannot be applied at a species level in any meaningful way.

I realise that to an extent this is semantic, but semantics are important. I agree with some of what you say. But there are certain points I do not agree with. We both seem to agree that humans are animals and in no way divine. That Gods are merely pink unicorns blindfolding large numbers of people and standing in direct opposition to reason and science. I disagree with idea that religion itself has retarded our development. I disagree that we have been retarded as a species at all. I disagree that what separates us from other species is what has caused our destructiveness. Rather, I think that what separates us is the thing that allows us to 'look in the mirror' as you put it.

What separates us from other species is potentially the thing that will allow us to reign in, or halt our destructiveness. By harnessing the same animal instincts which gave us something to reign in or halt.

I suppose in a sense we are looking at the same thing, but where you seem to view it in a pessimistic way, I don't.

Are you two making distinctions between the mind vs the brain?
It sort of seemed so at one point. Dana is narrowing it down to the primitive brain now.

If we raise up constructs like the unicorn and the church as vehicles to worship or commit crimes that would be the mind? Seems this is what WHIP is saying anyway?

I'm sure you both know better than me.I'm just asking. Mildly curious.*shrug*

you've got the picture skysidhe.

danac, i assume our difference is located at the base of our perceptions.
most would view me as extreme as i see us as secondary to the rest of this world...expendable even, for the good of all.

For the good of all what?

and who is 'us'? The human race? and whatever happened to the good guy wins scenario. There must be something worth salvaging?
I am sure there is as much good as bad. It's just that the good doesn't get as much coverage or recognition.I think people see what they want to see. That too is a mind frame just as dark as any other. Just as the Church looking for witches.

Human life isn't linear to me. It's cyclical. Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.

When have humans as a whole ever learned from our mistakes?

Humans will adapt and move on just so we can fuck it up again later. :D

for the good of all..... life, this planet, all the things we could destroy in time.

umm, i thought it was safe to assume that i am human, so yeah, us.
the good guy wins scenario would have us[the bad guy] erased, along with this cement jail cell we've built.
yes, this earth, and the non-human life thats on it.
the only way to salvage it, is to get rid of the species that destroys it.

as above, you wanna enlighten us pointing out some of the good humanity is doing for the rest of life that the media is not covering.
btw,i am the witch the church was seeking.

decreasing our population should be the number 1 focus for our species at this time, but again, how do you suggest we go about doing that?
china made the first step 30 years ago.
even if the rest of the world followed, it would be too late.
a nuclear bomb over india,[no offense, going by numbers'] would be a good start, but would still not be solving the problem.
aids helps, but we made the mistake of educating the people in how to avoid it.[we're not really learning here]
war has been our greatest blessing as it has kept us under 50 billion.
but still, its not enough, we'd have to be on world war 8 to keep up with our reproductive rate.
maybe a good virus would do the trick, inject a transmitable deadly virus into a large percentage of the world population, and we might actually be on to something....lets see how that works out for us.

Millions of types of critters have died out, and millions of new types came along to take their place. 3 or 4 times 90% of the life on Earth has been wiped out entirely... and came back. All this without our help. The Earth is constanly evolving.

Granted we have the power to steer that evolution some, but don't fool yourself, the Earth will survive long after we're gone, if it comes to that.

no doubt the earth will survive after we're gone.
the meantime is what we're looking at.

Anyone that really gives a damn can volunteer.



Greenpeace

Earth Island Insitute

National Wildlife Federation

Rainforest Action Network

Rainforst Foundation

Nature Conservatory

Worldlife Wildlife Fund

Oraganization Save the Earth Foundation

Mercy Corps

Peace Corps



Humanitarian and International Relief Organizations


Action Against Hunger

American Red Cross

BAPS Care International

CARE

Direct Relief International

GOAL

Global Giving

Habitat for Humanity International

International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent

Islamic Relief Worldwide

Network for Good

Oxfam International

People to People International

Save the Children

UNICEF

United Way

World Food Programme

World Vision

umm, yeah, how do any of these help us decrease our population?
most of these are for the benefit of humans.
quite the opposite of the objective.

you've not listed any actions of ours that benefit non-human life.
some of these have their focus on attempting to fix problems that we've caused, but that is still a negative against us, not a positive.

its like destroying 90 percent of the rainforrests and then planting some seeds, or like dropping a bomb on a school, and handing out a few band-aids to the few survivors attempting to take credit for helping.

The Earth can support an even greater population then we have today. It will just require a setup that is efficient with resources. If you really want to do something WHIP, work on making creating social setups that do just that. Decreasing the world population is not the only option.