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-   -   Fast and Furious (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=25379)

TheMercenary 06-17-2011 06:19 PM
Fast and Furious
 
Holder and the DOJ are in deep in this one. Hopefully they can fire the fool or at least get him to quit.

Quote:
The lethal fallout from a botched operation by the US Department of Justice which allowed almost 2,000 illegally purchased firearms to be transported from the streets of Arizona to drug gangs in Mexico has been laid bare in a scathing Congressional report, which concludes that it resulted in countless deaths.

A mixture of arrogance, over-confidence, and staggering ineptitude by the Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives [ATF] was outlined in a 51-page investigation by two Republican members of a House panel charged with getting to the bottom of what went wrong during a two-year operation called "Fast and Furious".

It tells how, between 2009 and this year, the ATF instructed agents to turn a blind eye to hundreds of AK-47 assault rifles, sniper rifles, and revolvers purchased from gunshops in Phoenix and en route to Mexico. They hoped to eventually recover them from crime scenes and build a complex conspiracy case that might take down the leaders of a major drug cartel.

In the event, the operation resulted in the arrest of a handful of small-time crooks. But it exacerbated an already-huge spike in violence on both sides of the border. Two of the guns allowed to "walk" into the hands of criminals were used in a shoot-out that killed a US border patrol agent, Brian Terry.
More:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-2297924.html

TheMercenary 06-22-2011 01:06 PM
Another stain on Holder and the DOJ....

Quote:
The damning evidence that the U.S. Department of Justice agency is a major supplier of cartel weapons will go in front of a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee this week, in what could be a damning indictment of the ATF’s senior leadership and Eric Holder’s leadership of the Department of Justice.

Attorney General Holder has apparently ordered the DOJ to fight Congressional oversight, with the DOJ and ATF ignoring seven letters and a subpoena from the committee. Neither Holder nor ATF Director Ken Melson will answer questions — which may lead to them being held in contempt of Congress.

Holder and Melson have little reason to tell the truth about what happened with Operation Fast and Furious, which may be the most incompetent ATF operation since the agency’s ill-advised 1993 raid of the Branch Davidian compound left four agents dead and 16 wounded. (After the raid failed, the Justice Department then had the FBI take over a siege which ended in the deaths of 74 men, women, and children.) In responding to the subpoena and the letters directed to the agencies by Congress, they may reveal not just glaring incompetence, but perhaps open a door to political motives for the gun-running that point higher in the Obama administration.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-under-fire/

TheMercenary 06-24-2011 12:27 PM
Another Murder Linked to US Gunwalker Case

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...in;contentBody

classicman 06-24-2011 12:51 PM
Quote:
A bipartisan team of members of Congress heads to Mexico tomorrow as their investigation moves south of the border.
Hopefully they can get something there since they are being stonewalled here.

Fair&Balanced 06-24-2011 12:59 PM
Just to add a little context, Issa, the Chairman of the House Govt Oversight Committee received a classified briefing on the program last year and made no objections.

Quote:
A chief Republican critic of a controversial U.S. anti-gun-trafficking operation was briefed on ATF’s “Fast and Furious” program last year and did not express any opposition, sources familiar with the classified briefing said Tuesday.

Rep. Darrell Issa (Calif.), who has repeatedly called for top Justice Department officials to be held accountable for the now-defunct operation, was given highly specific information about it at an April 2010 briefing, the sources said. Members of his staff also attended the session, which Issa and two other Republican congressmen had requested...

...At the briefing last year, bureau officials laid out for Issa and other members of Congress from both parties details of several ATF investigations, including Fast and Furious, the sources said. For that program, the briefing covered how many guns had been bought by “straw purchasers,’’ the types of guns and how much money had been spent, said one source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the briefing was not public.

“All of the things [Issa] has been screaming about, he was briefed on,’’ said one source familiar with the session.

Frederick R. Hill, a spokesman for the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which Issa chairs, acknowledged on Tuesday that an ATF briefing on “weapons smuggling by criminal cartels” took place in April 2010 but declined to specify what Issa or his staff were told.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...5eH_story.html
I think it was reckless operation, but Issa evidently didnt see a need at the time to attempt to prevent it or take any action at all.

The head of the ATF should probably resign.

The rest is partisan political grandstanding.

TheMercenary 06-24-2011 05:08 PM
Holder should resign. Or maybe you just consider a protest and inquiry over the deaths of the agents "political grandstanding". :rolleyes:

wolf 06-24-2011 05:25 PM
We have a long history of arming our enemies, first time we've done it so close to home, though.

The paranoid conspiracy theorist in me says that Fast and Furious was an attempt to promote gun violence so that the ban could happen ... they just didn't expect to get caught at the selling parts.

Fair&Balanced 06-24-2011 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 741866)
Holder should resign. Or maybe you just consider a protest and inquiry over the deaths of the agents "political grandstanding". :rolleyes:
Well certainly, no one knows more about political grandstanding when it comes to Holder than you. ;)

TheMercenary 06-24-2011 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced (Post 741873)
Well certainly, no one knows more about political grandstanding when it comes to Holder than you. ;)
Well except for the fact that Holder holds the highest office in the DOJ and the DOJ has been completely involved in this operation that not only has fueled the mass murder of Mexican nationals just across the border but now three of our own agents. Yea, Holder needs to resign and you should consider not trying to make excuses for this scum bag. This is Obama's Iran Contra. I wonder how agent Brian Terry's family would feel about you degrading his death to nothing more than "political grandstanding". I will send them a link to your comments.

TheMercenary 06-24-2011 08:33 PM
Border Patrol Agent

Brian A. Terry

Officer Down Memorial Page

http://www.odmp.org/officer/20596-bo...-brian-a-terry

Fair&Balanced 06-25-2011 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 741885)
Well except for the fact that Holder holds the highest office in the DOJ and the DOJ has been completely involved in this operation that not only has fueled the mass murder of Mexican nationals just across the border but now three of our own agents. Yea, Holder needs to resign and you should consider not trying to make excuses for this scum bag. This is Obama's Iran Contra. I wonder how agent Brian Terry's family would feel about you degrading his death to nothing more than "political grandstanding". I will send them a link to your comments.
The political grandstanding is the chair of the House Committee acting as if he is hearing about the program for the first time when he received a classified briefing last year.

And its you as well, looking for a new way to scream Holder should resign every other week, dude.

It has nothing to do with the senseless death of a federal agent as i result of what I said was a reckless operation. Shame on you for such an ignorant assertion

Fair&Balanced 06-25-2011 10:40 AM
If you want to compare it to Iran-Contra, then Obama should appoint a bi-partisan commission to investigate like the Tower Commission.

That would certainly do away with the inappropriate partisan grandstanding by the hypocrite Issa who by his silence in the previous years briefing can be said to have given his tacit support for the program.

TheMercenary 06-25-2011 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced (Post 741942)
It has nothing to do with the senseless death of a federal agent as i result of what I said was a reckless operation. Shame on you for such an ignorant assertion
Your words dude, not mine. Shame on you for degrading his death and subsequent protests over the operation as "nothing more than political grandstanding".

Fair&Balanced 06-25-2011 10:37 PM
So you dont think Issa is grandstanding, even though he was briefed on the program last year and expressed no concerns.

This is the same guy who demanded hearings on the SEC fines against Goldman Sachs, claiming it was timed by Obama to be political and not mentioning at all his $5 - $15 million investment in Goldman Sachs funds.

OK.

And I'm not degrading anyone's death but conservatives certainly like to get all sanctimonious and suggest they care more about the deaths of American soldiers or border patrol agents.

I keep forgetting that conservatives are more patriotic than liberals. At least that is what you guys keep telling us. :rolleyes:

Gravdigr 06-26-2011 05:08 AM
:corn:


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