With all this talk about God, higher power, what we can and cannot accept. This is for all of the very smart people in the room. Written by the father of American Psychology. "Varieties of Religious Experience" is mentioned briefly in the AA Big Book. But I've met only about two people who have actually read James's work. I must confess that I tried to read this about 15 years ago and it was like reading the Silmarillion...s l o w. I think I might give it another go. You may find this an interesting read. I think that one of the main points that James is trying to say in his lectures is this: the most important thing that religions have given mankind are enlightened individuals.

Classic, we make amends where ever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. We don't get to save our skins at another's expense.

I hear ya. Not knocking the program at all. Whatever works for the individual.
Just a cautionary tale for those who may join in the future.

She was an idiot and so was her sponsor.
They both relapsed "together." Oh joy, it just kept getting better.

The program is what it is. People relapse all the time - with or without their sponsor. It's what alcoholics do - go get drunk.

IMO for AA to work, you have to immerse yourself in it totally. You go to a meeting everyday (sometimes more) if possible. You get yourself a sponsor with at least a few years of sobriety - one that you see walking the walk, not just talking the talk. You start and end each day with meditation and prayer. You work the steps with your sponsor, and I mean WORK them. You do a lot of writing and soul searching. You give back to the program by chairing meetings, agreeing to be coffee maker and opening up the meeting room, and much more. You go to the "meeting before the meeting" and the "meeting after the meeting" which means you come early to talk to people and you go out for coffee with everyone afterwards.

Most of your friends are in AA because "normies" just don't get what it's like to struggle with alcoholism nor what it means to "work the program." Stopping smoking is not like quitting drinking, although my hat is off to anyone who can quit smoking cold turkey. I have done both and there is simply no comparison.

It's wonderful if you have a family and are motivated by your love of them, but that's not the same as having a higher power. No matter how wonderful they may be, they are not god. And what do people who don't have families do?

And finally Joe is absolutely right. The step Classic is thinking of is the 9th step: "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others." An alcoholic who makes a practice of bestowing upon others cruel and unnecessary information is NOT in recovery, rather they are acting out of their alcoholic sickness.

Like I said in my previous post - whatever works.

That said I'll tell you this as an interesting little side dish: at last
fridays women's meeting a woman came up to me ten minutes
before the start, introduced herself and asked me right then &
there if I was a Christian. This was at a club where a lot of new
comers go. Had I been a newbie I would have run.

It ain't perfect but if it helps, it helps.

You should have said, "No, I'm a drunk." :D

I'm ashamed to admit that she caught me so off guard that I actually answered her! The subsequent look of disappointment on
her face was sort of satisfying.


aßorta satisfying

Damn this kindle keyboard!!!-

You don't mean Saint Aborta of the immaculate misconception, do you?

:) still trying to figure this thing out.

The trick on the Fire is paying attention to the word suggestion list. It's usually better than I am at spelling and word choice. Usually. My phone sucks at this, though.

Over the years I dealt with a number of dry drunk ex-employees at the nuthouse who had made it to Step 9. They would nearly always come in and ask to speak to a list of department supervisors. This happened often enough that I would go into the supervisor's office and ask if he wanted to see so and so for his Step 9 amends. I don't think he ever did.

Some times the only ammend I can make is to not drink. I've
done too many things in blackouts to ever truly know who I've offend.