The Cellar - About the suicide depression thing

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- - About the suicide depression thing (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=30337)

About the suicide depression thing

Robin Williams but also thinking about someone close to us all.....

STOP TELLING ME THAT DEPRESSION IS SERIOUS AND SOMETHING WE SHOULD TAKE SERIOUSLY! STOP TELLING ME WE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!

We/I DID take it seriously and we/I did know.

But what do you want us to do? keep someone in a prison in a straight jacket and force them to stay alive? Is that a life?

yeah, this is only a part-formed thought. that's why it's in nothingland

We could fight to eliminate the stigma. I don't know. That seems reasonable.

We can't save anyone but we could try to eliminate the shame the depressed feel when they admit to their depression. When they actively seek treatment. Or actively reach out to 'friends.'

Like the help we give those with eating disorders. It's all the rage! Or some sort of autism spectrum. It's all the rage!

Depression isn't popular. It ain't cool. It ain't the soup of the day.

Maybe we could just help them pull up their bootstraps. See how easy that was?

ffs

no :(

I think they did tell us. I felt helpless. I know many dwellars battle with depression, I know this is a dodgy and painful subject. I still feel helpless. I know people who are depressed and who consider ending it even though they are able to reach out and share that they are depressed. But what can/should I do?

You could try to kill them. See if they resist. That would remind them how silly they're being.

You wanna kill yourself? Go do that. But give a thought for the people that are likely to find your body. Try not to make a big mess.

Monster, you should not worry about anything with the word 'should' in it. There is no 'you' in the question 'what do you want us to do?'

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 906907)

... But what can/should I do?

Just do what I do.

Jim, there just might be :(

I cried for Robin, and I rarely cry. At all.

I learned through up-close-and-personal recent experience that they're not being silly. Being killed by someone else would be a blessing, not a wake-up call.

before you split hairs, you know what I meant

I don't think that removing the stigma surrounding depression would make a difference. Depression creates its own personal cloud of stigma.
Monster, there really is nothing you can do. You can offer practical help and emotional support, but if the depressed person doesn't take it and takes their life instead you are still left wondering "what should I have done?".
It's the worst feeling. Except, of course, for how a depressed person must feel. I suppose.

Right now I know two people who are very likely to die of a combination of deadly disease and choices they are making. One I've mentioned before, her breast cancer has returned, and she has decided to drop all western medicine and treat it through "toxin removal" and veganism. Another is my guitarist's son, who is on smack, and already at age 19 has had several near-death episodes.

We're not counselors, we're not professionals, we don't know what makes it worse or makes it better, or if there's anything in the entire world that can make it better. We offer what we can and it is often simply shunned or made impossible. I suspect that the deep, harsh judgements that we are trained from children to pass do not help; but that's my narrative, and what do I know? Nothing. We all have our narrative, and it's how we may feel broken, but even the broken amongst us have to admit, we don't share a narrative on life with most other broken people. Everyone's pain is theirs.

Ugh...touchy subject for sure. Sorry if I was harsh. I think my reaction is anger borne of sheer helplessness. Sometimes hopelessness.

Even as I say 'remove the stigma' I find it easier to turn away. Because it all hits way too close to home.

Sorry. :(

eta: my last sentence in last night's post about helping them pull up bootstraps see how easy that was...was supposed to be sarcasm. It just came off as assholishness.

I know and I didn't mean to trample everywhere but I needed to vent. Because every tribute everywhere is interrupted by someone pointing the finger saying "you/we don't take depression seriously enough and that's why children die" just let us mourn. Maybe we did fail him. and others. And we'll probably fail more, but we're trying and we do know and we do care... at least I do :(

There is a very real thing where suicides are contagious. And the CDC actually studied this problem about 20 years ago and came up with some things for the media and officials to avoid when talking about somebody who took their life, lest others who are struggling become copy cats.

Quote:

ASPECTS OF NEWS COVERAGE THAT CAN PROMOTE SUICIDE CONTAGION

Clinicians, researchers, and other health professionals at the workshop agreed that to minimize the likelihood of suicide contagion, reporting should be concise and factual. Although scientific research in this area is not complete, workshop participants believed that the likelihood of suicide contagion may be increased by the following actions:

-Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.

Suicide is never the result of a single factor or event, but rather results from a complex interaction of many factors and usually involves a history of psychosocial problems (12). Public officials and the media should carefully explain that the final precipitating event was not the only cause of a given suicide. Most persons who have committed suicide have had a history of problems that may not have been acknowledged during the acute aftermath of the suicide. Cataloguing the problems that could have played a causative role in a suicide is not necessary, but acknowledgment of these problems is recommended.

-Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.

Repetitive and ongoing coverage, or prominent coverage, of a suicide tends to promote and maintain a preoccupation with suicide among at-risk persons, especially among persons 15-24 years of age. This preoccupation appears to be associated with suicide contagion. Information presented to the media should include the association between such coverage and the potential for suicide contagion. Public officials and media representatives should discuss alternative approaches for coverage of newsworthy suicide stories.

-Providing sensational coverage of suicide.

By its nature, news coverage of a suicidal event tends to heighten the general public's preoccupation with suicide. This reaction is also believed to be associated with contagion and the development of suicide clusters. Public officials can help minimize sensationalism by limiting, as much as possible, morbid details in their public discussions of suicide. News media professionals should attempt to decrease the prominence of the news report and avoid the use of dramatic photographs related to the suicide (e.g., photographs of the funeral, the deceased person's bedroom, and the site of the suicide).

-Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.

Describing technical details about the method of suicide is undesirable. For example, reporting that a person died from carbon monoxide poisoning may not be harmful; however, providing details of the mechanism and procedures used to complete the suicide may facilitate imitation of the suicidal behavior by other at-risk persons.

-Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.

Suicide is usually a rare act of a troubled or depressed person. Presen- tation of suicide as a means of coping with personal problems (e.g., the break-up of a relationship or retaliation against parental discipline) may suggest suicide as a potential coping mechanism to at-risk persons. Although such factors often seem to trigger a suicidal act, other psychopathological problems are almost always involved. If suicide is presented as an effective means for accomplishing specific ends, it may be perceived by a potentially suicidal person as an attractive solution.

-Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.

News coverage is less likely to contribute to suicide contagion when reports of community expressions of grief (e.g., public eulogies, flying flags at half-mast, and erecting permanent public memorials) are minimized. Such actions may contribute to suicide contagion by suggesting to susceptible persons that society is honoring the suicidal behavior of the deceased person, rather than mourning the person's death.

-Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.

Empathy for family and friends often leads to a focus on reporting the positive aspects of a suicide completer's life. For example, friends or teachers may be quoted as saying the deceased person "was a great kid" or "had a bright future," and they avoid mentioning the troubles and problems that the deceased person experienced. As a result, statements venerating the deceased person are often reported in the news. However, if the suicide completer's problems are not acknowledged in the presence of these laudatory statements, suicidal behavior may appear attractive to other at-risk persons -- especially those who rarely receive positive reinforcement for desirable behaviors.

I get that, monster. I did get angry about the stigma of depression. That came from 'me' and it's best for me not to discuss it further.

But I did try to give something to the community by posting two videos I found 1) funny and 2) poignant.

Well, Abe Vigoda is (still) alive.

That's sumthin, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 906920)

... every tribute everywhere is interrupted by someone pointing the finger saying "you/we don't take depression seriously enough and that's why children die" just let us mourn. Maybe we did fail him. and others. And we'll probably fail more, but we're trying and we do know and we do care... at least I do :(

This. Just this.