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-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Immigrants (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15795)

dar512 10-28-2007 04:25 PM
Immigrants
 
There's been a lot of discussion on the Cellar lately about illegal immigrants. For myself, I care less about how people get here than what they do after they're here.

I got this in the mail today from my Mom. Normally, things of this sort I get from my Mom turn out to be bogus. But in this case snopes says it's the real deal.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodore Roosevelt

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
I can get along with this point of view.

Ibby 10-28-2007 05:34 PM
I think teddy's spewin' bullshit, myself.

bluecuracao 10-28-2007 06:15 PM
Quote:
In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us
Quote:
But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ...
What did Teddy mean by 'us,' I wonder.

Dar, could be it's simpler to you, but to me, it's a very complex variable. I see 'us' Americans as having many cultures, dialects, even languages...both distinct and blended.

Would you give some details as to what you like about his point of view?

queequeger 10-28-2007 10:23 PM
Quote:
it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American.
Isn't this a bit contradictory? First off, who decides what makes an 'American?' It seems to be a little xenophobic... and nationalistic to the point of jingoism.

Clodfobble 10-29-2007 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by queequeger
First off, who decides what makes an 'American?'
The immigrant himself decides what he will identify as. It makes a world of difference when one says and thinks unequivocally, "I am an American," instead of "I am a ______ish immigrant."

TheMercenary 10-29-2007 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 401183)
The immigrant himself decides what he will identify as. It makes a world of difference when one says and thinks unequivocally, "I am an American," instead of "I am a ______ish immigrant."
Sort of like "African American"?

DanaC 10-29-2007 07:42 PM
Sort of...except the original influx of African 'immigrants' weren't really given a choice. Once in America they weren't able to take on the American identity on account of being classed as subhuman...I suggest the descendents of unwilling slaves have every right to define themselves within modern America.

Clodfobble 10-29-2007 08:12 PM
As they have had the option for over a century to return to their home countries anytime they wish, I suggest that actions speak louder than words.

TheMercenary 10-29-2007 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 401299)
I suggest the descendents of unwilling slaves have every right to define themselves within modern America.
There is the rub. Few can prove such a connection but everyone wants to use the term.

queequeger 10-29-2007 11:36 PM
My question is.... who the eff cares? If someone wants to identify themselves with some other culture, what difference does it make to you?

You can say 'well, if they like it so much they should leave,' or 'they don't deserve to live here.' In the long run, what difference does it make?? They still pay taxes just like everyone else. They don't make your life any worse. If you have so much of a problem with the existence of China towns, or neighborhoods that are primarily made of folks from Ecuador... well that makes one of us.

binky 10-30-2007 10:16 AM
Unfortunately, in the case of someone here illegally, and working under the table, they may not pay taxes like everyone else, not to mention the issue of students in the classrooms who don't speak any english, which(and I've seen this firsthand-working for our school district) slows down the learning process for everyone and uses resources which I feel could be better utilized. Sorry if this post is politically incorrect.

queequeger 10-30-2007 10:24 AM
This thread isn't about illegal immigrants, we've beat that horse into the ground. This is about people being absorbed into a culture and leaving theirs behind. I'm saying it doesn't matter if someone calls themselves Japanese Americans and hangs out in Japanese restaurants and hangs a Japanese flag in their bedroom. What difference does it make?

queequeger 10-30-2007 10:25 AM
Besides that, we know where I stand on illegal immigration ;)

freshnesschronic 10-30-2007 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 401320)
As they have had the option for over a century to return to their home countries anytime they wish, I suggest that actions speak louder than words.
....The option to return? Uh..... :eyebrow:
Not everyone can afford that plane ticket back to Africa...

But I agree with quee.
Selective acculturation, adopting traits and characteristics essential to surviving in the mainstream atmosphere while retaining non essential cultural values. Like learning the language, laws and social norms but being able to speak the mother tongue at home or celebrate Diwali in two weeks or something like that.

What's the harm with that?

DanaC 10-30-2007 10:45 AM
My personal opinion is that nations which have that diversity and celebrate it are stronger societies and ultimately more cohesive.


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