The Cellar - Stuff I don't understand about Bush's speech

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Stuff I don't understand about Bush's speech

Is it dangerous to start a THIRD Palestine thread when people are getting sick of just the two? Awfuggit, I'm going to anyway.

The biggest thing I don't understand is why he ended on a Bible quote. He ended with this:

<i> The choice here is stark and simple, the Bible says, "I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life." The time has arrived for everyone in this conflict to choose peace and hope and life. </i>

Why the biblical ref? Was it...

A) To indicate that his position has a basis in Christianity, because Muslims will be more likely to respect principles that come from a spiritual side

B) To indicate to the Muslims that the US does not come to the conflict as "pro-Jew" and therefore that maybe their role is more sincere than it appears

C) To show Islamist states that even a secular government can have a spiritual basis, making them more supportive of the idea of secular states

D) To incite rulers of Islamist states into even more hard-line positions, ensuring more support for terrorism and the eventual collapse of world support for the Palestinians

E) To tip his cap to his core constituency

F) A sincere gesture of his honest beliefs, along with a firm insistence that frankly stating honest beliefs is a good approach

G) A stupid mistake on the part of a speech writer

I truly do not know the answer to this question...

H) Pulled it out of his ass at the last minute. :)

Actually, it's an old testament reference so it's as much a Jewish as a Christian biblical reference. It's a quote attributed to Moses speaking to the children of Israel. It's a Christian nod to the Jewish voters.

Bush is a member of the Episcopal Church.

It is lifted from the following statement of the Episcopal Bishops.

Quote:

Statement from
Bishops of the Episcopal Church
Released by the
Office of the Presiding Bishop
"On waging reconciliation"

September 26, 2001

We, your bishops, have come together in the shadow of the shattering events of September 11. We in the United States now join that company of nations in which ideology disguised as true religion wreaks havoc and sudden death. Through this suffering, we have come into a new solidarity with those in other parts of the world for whom the evil forces of terrorism are a continuing fear and reality.

We grieve with those who have lost companions and loved ones, and pray for those who have so tragically died. We pray for the President of the United States, his advisors, and for the members of Congress that they may be given wisdom and prudence for their deliberations and measured patience in their actions. We pray for our military chaplains, and for those serving in the Armed Forces along with their families in these anxious and uncertain days. We also pray "for our enemies, and those who wish us harm; and for all whom we have injured or offended." (BCP, page 391.

At the same time we give thanks for the rescue workers and volunteers, and all those persons whose courageous efforts demonstrated a generosity and selflessness that bears witness to the spirit of our nation at its best. We give thanks too for all those who are reaching out to our Muslim brothers and sisters and others who are rendered vulnerable in this time of fear and recrimination.

We come together also in the shadow of the cross: that unequivocal sign that suffering and death are never the end but the way along which we pass into a future in which all things will be healed and reconciled. Through Christ "God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross." (Col. 1:20) This radical act of peace-making is nothing less than the right ordering of all things according to God's passionate desire for justness, for the full flourishing of humankind and all creation.

This peace has already been achieved in Christ, but it has yet to be realized in our relationships with one another and the world around us. As members of a global community and the worldwide Anglican Communion, we are called to bear one another's burdens across the divides of culture, religion, and differing views of the world. The affluence of nations such as our own stands in stark contrast to other parts of the world wracked by the crushing poverty which causes the death of 6,000 children in the course of a morning.

We are called to self-examination and repentance: the willingness to change direction, to open our hearts and give room to God's compassion as it seeks to bind up, to heal, and to make all things new and whole. God's project, in which we participate by virtue of our baptism, is the ongoing work of reordering and transforming the patterns of our common life so they may reveal God's justness - not as an abstraction but in bread for the hungry and clothing for the naked. The mission of the Church is to participate in God's work in the world. We claim that mission.

"I have set before you life and death…choose life so that you and your descendants may live," declares Moses to the children to Israel. We choose life and immediately set ourselves to the task of developing clear steps that we will take personally and as a community of faith, to give substance to our resolve and embodiment to our hope. We do so not alone but trusting in your own faithfulness and your desire to be instruments of peace.

Let us therefore wage reconciliation. Let us offer our gifts for the carrying out of God's ongoing work of reconciliation, healing and making all things new. To this we pledge ourselves and call our church.

We go forth sober in the knowledge of the magnitude of the task to which we have all been called, yet confident and grounded in hope. "And hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us." (Romans 5:5)

"May the God of hope fill us with all joy and peace in believing through the power of the Holy Spirit." (Romans 15:13)

Here's the full text from the Bible:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.
Bible: Deuteronomy 30:19

OK. So Bush uses the words of Moses speaking to the children of Israel as part of a statement demanding that Arabs operate a certain way.

In that way, I pick "D" of the choices above. Bush has basically given the Palestinians his long laundry list of what they'd need to do before statehood was on the table... and backed it up with Jewish scripture. Chance of Palestinians taking that seriously: damn near zero, am I wrong?

So then, why was Arafat's response positive?

A) He was listening to a translator, who got the soaring Palestinian praise right and the demand that Arafat not be in office wrong

B) He knows his time is up and these are words of tired resignation

C) He's pissed as hell and will indicate his true feelings in Arabic, perhaps at the next Hamas Board of Directors meeting

D) He's a sickly, senile, doddering old man who didn't remember the entire speech anyway

E) He was planning to have elections soon and figures that if he can make them look legit, the world won't care about the other demands

Several multiple choice posts in the same thread using the same selections: A) B) C) etc.

Is this:

A) Bad planning.
B) Poor judgment.
C) Deliberate obfuscation.

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
OK. So Bush uses the words of Moses speaking to the children of Israel as part of a statement demanding that Arabs operate a certain way.

In that way, I pick "D" of the choices above. Bush has basically given the Palestinians his long laundry list of what they'd need to do before statehood was on the table... and backed it up with Jewish scripture. Chance of Palestinians taking that seriously: damn near zero, am I wrong?

If I recall what meager religious study I've had correctly, the group of writings Christians call the Old Testament and Jews call the Tanakh is also considered holy by Moslems. The Quran was delivered to Mohammed by an angel, and was sort of "the" revelation, but it was not seen to invalidate the Hebrew scriptures, and I believe Islam traces itself back to Abraham. For that matter, (and I'm not sure if this is "orthodox" or something that's not universally held) Jesus is considered an important prophet by at least some Moslems, though of course not divine in the sense of the Christian trinity, and not as significant a prophet as Mohammed.

So, in fact, W used a quotation from Deuteronomy that was likely to be recognized by both the Jews and the Moslems. I spose he's come a long way since he was talking about crusades.

Somebody please correct me if I've messed anything up.

The Promised Land as a blessing conditional upon following God's laws

It would be interesting to know whether the surrounding context of this biblical verse were known to the speech writers or to Bush:

Quote:

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Quote:

1 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

2 And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.

3 The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.

4 And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.

5 And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you.

6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:5 Deut 31:8 Joshua 1:5

7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.

21 Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."
22 And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ...
23 Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out."
24 "Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

Apparently, Arafat didn't think that the reference to "changing the leadership of the PA" applied to him. And he WAS smiling a lot.

Ignorance is bliss. :)

A stupid mistake on the part of a speech writer

or bush just messing up again...

Re: Stuff I don't understand about Bush's speech

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
[The President] ended with this:

<i> The choice here is stark and simple, the Bible says, "I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life." The time has arrived for everyone in this conflict to choose peace and hope and life. </i>

Why the biblical ref?

Too much reasoning in those options is based upon the idea that George Jr is a smart person. I read him as saying to suicide bombers to choose life. He does not have the background, knowledge, experience, or insight to send subtile messages. Think in terms of a simple mind to understand what the man is saying. Choose life - not suicide.

Re: Re: Stuff I don't understand about Bush's speech

Quote:

Originally posted by tw

Too much reasoning in those options is based upon the idea that George Jr is a smart person.

He may be a moron, but what about his writing staff? Of course with some of the things in his recent speeches I guess they might be just as dumb...

Re: Re: Re: Stuff I don't understand about Bush's speech

Quote:

Originally posted by spinningfetus

He may be a moron, but what about his writing staff? Of course with some of the things in his recent speeches I guess they might be just as dumb...

Nah. They're just evil.

The speech writers or the puppeteers?

Overtheweekendthedickhadtoremovehisfingerfromthepresidentialpuppetsothatamedicalprocedurecouldcheckitout.

Duringtheperiodwhentherpresidentialfingerpuppetwasremovedthedickwasauthorizedtospeakdirectlyaspresident.

Everythingcheckedoutokandthepuppetisworkingfordickagain.