The Cellar - Obama's attempts at fomenting a Class War

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Obama's attempts at fomenting a Class War

So all these attempts at class warfare by Obama are going to blow up in his face once someone pulls out a basic calculator...

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-ric...070642868.html

Obama Raises Money in New York with millionaires and billionaires!. I wonder if any owners of private jet companies attended? $38,000 a ticket.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/0...k/?mod=WSJBlog

Buffett’s math is a bit off....

Quote:

All told, after combining corporate taxes and capital gains taxes, Buffett forked over about 45 percent of his earnings.

So why is he lying to the public repeatedly?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...PfsJcnWaIoptFJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 757274)

So all these attempts at class warfare by Obama are going to blow up in his face once someone pulls out a basic calculator...

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-ric...070642868.html

I don't see how anything in that article can be considered a "fact-check."

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Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus (Post 757278)

I don't see how anything in that article can be considered a "fact-check."

Looks pretty factual to me...

Quote:

"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."
There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.
This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.
Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay an average of 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.
Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.
The latest IRS figures are a few years older — and limited to federal income taxes — but show much the same thing. In 2009, taxpayers who made $1 million or more paid on average 24.4 percent of their income in federal income taxes, according to the IRS.
Those making $100,000 to $125,000 paid on average 9.9 percent in federal income taxes. Those making $50,000 to $60,000 paid an average of 6.3 percent.
Obama's claim hinges on the fact that, for high-income families and individuals, investment income is often taxed at a lower rate than wages. The top tax rate for dividends and capital gains is 15 percent. The top marginal tax rate for wages is 35 percent, though that is reserved for taxable income above $379,150.

Both Obama and Buffet are lying to the public or have no frigging clue what they are talking about. I tend to believe the later, they are parrots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 757275)

Obama Raises Money in New York with millionaires and billionaires!.

So? Is it in some way hypocritical to ask people to pay higher taxes, and also ask them to support your campaign?

Neil nails it.... again....

Quote:

Today’s class warfare warrior is none other than Illinois Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky. In a radio interview yesterday, she had this to say:
“I’ll put it this way. You don’t deserve to keep all of it and it’s not a question of deserving because what government is, is those things that we decide to do together. And there are many things that we decide to do together like have our national security. Like have police and fire. What about the people that work at the National Institute of Health who are looking for a cure for cancer.”
Well let me ask this LibTwit a few questions.
Did we decide together to spend $760,000 on interactive dance software development for some researchers at the University of North Carolina?
Did we decide together to spend $1.2 million to convert an abandoned train station in Glassboro, NJ into a museum?
Did we decide together to spend $90,000 to build a sidewalk that leads to a ditch in Boynton, OK?
Did we decide together to give $762,000 to a Georgia Tech professor so that the good professor could “jam with world-renowned musicians” while he sought to “understand, model and support improvisation, or real-time collaborative creativity, in the context of jazz, Indian classical and avant-garde art music”?
Did we decide together to give $2.4 million to Winter Haven, FL to buy brand new 40-foot buses that will carry about three riders per hour?
Did we decide together to give the Fish and Wildlife service $6 million to build a grand new visitor’s center at a wildlife refuge that gets 80 visitors a day?
It sounds to me like Ms. Schakowsky has really embraced the idea of democracy … the majority rules. Whatever the majority wants, the majority gets --- even if it means the majority seizes your money to build a turtle tunnel.
But let’s talk about this concept that you just don’t deserve to keep all of your money. If you’ll remember, during the tea party debate the other night, a young man stood up in the audience and asked how much money do these candidates believe he should be able to keep? Here’s why the prog thought process on this concept is dangerous. You wake up at 4:30am to get to your first job on time. You bust your buns to earn a paycheck. Then later that afternoon, you show up to work at your second job, because things have been kind of tight and you and your wife could use some extra cash while you save up to buy a house or take care of a sick parent, whatever. You drive home late that night, in the dark, and you wake up early the next morning to do it all over again. You are the one busting your buns to earn this money. You are trading off some of the minutes you have to spend on this earth to produce this wealth. It belongs to you. It is yours. You decide how to spend it, how to save it and how to invest it. Then along comes government. It puts a gun to your head and says, You owe us 35% of everything you worked for. Hand it over. And the man does so, because otherwise he will end up in a jail cell.
In the world according to Jan Schakowsky, that money that you worked so hard to earn? You don’t really deserve it. After all; you -- or at least a portion of you -- belongs to the government. And just how much of you belongs to the government? Well, that’s up to people like Schakowsky to decide.

http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-...s-warfare-act/

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 757277)

Buffett’s math is a bit off....

So why is he lying to the public repeatedly?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...PfsJcnWaIoptFJ

Anyone who promulgates the "Double tax" myth lying to the public repeatedly. Money isn't taxed, transactions are.

You aren't "double taxed" when you pay income tax on your income and then sales tax on your purchases. They're different transactions.

And in the case described in the article, the first transaction isn't even him; its his corporation (I say "his", but he's not the only shareholder, just the most important one). That's a completely separate entity. That's like saying your maid is "double taxed" because her salary is paid out of your post-tax income.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 757288)

If I give money to the government without choice while I control it, it is a tax, regardless of what your fantasy may be about wealth redistribution. Income and purchases are a different animal. These are investments and dividend income. It also depends on whether they are qualified or non-qualified dividends. I earn it and get taxed on it. I put it in a stock and take out the profit, I get taxed a second time.

Even if I put into stock and it earns zero, when I pull it out it is taxed a second time.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 757290)

Income and purchases are a different animal.

Quote:

I earn it and get taxed on it. I put it in a stock and take out the profit, I get taxed a second time.

That's two transactions. Two different animals. You get taxed twice. If you buy an animal with your profit, you'll get taxed again on that third transaction.

Quote:

Even if I put into stock and it earns zero, when I pull it out it is taxed a second time.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Not capital gains, I assume?

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Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 757293)

Everything's different animals. That's why it's silly and meaningless to say that the "same money" got taxed twice. Just about all money has been taxed many times, just like just about all water has been passed through different animals many times.That's two transactions. Two different animals. You get taxed twice. If you buy an animal with your profit, you'll get taxed again on that third transaction.I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Not capital gains, I assume?

If all of that money goes into my pocket on the right, and I got taxed on it on the way in.... then I take it out and put it somewhere but on the way to my left pocket it gets taxed again.... I just got taxed twice. And we aren't talking about animals. We are talking about money.

Bottom line is this...

Obama, "Spread the wealth around..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 757298)

And if you buy a pack of cigarretes you get taxed a third time. And if you buy gas, you get taxed a fourth time.

Yes, you get taxed for each transaction. That's why the "double tax" argument is silly and irrelevant. Money is taxed as it flows. There's no special relationship between salary and investments where getting taxed on your investment returns is "double tax", but getting taxed on your purchases is a different animal, and just two different taxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 757301)

Dude, we aren't talking about non-monetary exchanges. You can't compare the taxation of gas and cigarettes in the same way you talk about things with monetary value that adjust as investments, you are trying to compare consumables with monetary investment vehicles. Even the goobberment sees them as different things because they are taxed differently. Get a grip....

Cigarettes and gasoline are different things, and taxed differently.

Wages, corporate profits, and capital gains are also different things and taxed differently.

They're all different things, and taxed differently. It's silly to pick two of them, and say "that's a double tax"!