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Lamplighter 11-25-2011 02:29 PM

Corporations don't die...
The age of the universe is 13.75 billion years

In the beginning, the corporation was created, filled a need of the people,
made a profit, distributed dividends to it's stockholders,
and the Board of Directors saw that it was good.

Something has since changed.
Here is a $39 BILLION merger that's in the works:

Wall Street Journal
Nov 25, 2011

UPDATE: AT&T Disputes FCC's Authority To Deny Merger Withdrawal

FCC officials said Thursday their options included granting the withdrawal with prejudice,
which means AT&T couldn't reapply later, or denying it outright,
which would allow the FCC to move forward with plans to vote on the hearing.

AT&T also said Thursday it will take a charge in this year's final quarter for $4 billion,
a sum it may owe T-Mobile parent Deutsche Telekom AG (DTEGY, DTE.XE) if the merger fails to go through.
That works out to $3 billion in breakup fees and $1 billion in estimated book spectrum value.
ATT covers the entire US
Deutsche Telekom AG covers Europe

tw 11-25-2011 10:40 PM

AT&T has a history of cells that are lower technology. That dropped calls due to too few cells. In Manhattan, AT&T kept selling mobile phones even though it knew its network on that island was insufficient.

AT&T wanted that $39billion purchase to increase their services. That's what AT&T said. An internal memo was leaked. Service could be increased for significantly less money by simply upgrading existing cells and installing more. An AT&T merger was not to increase service. It was to eliminate competition.

And still our extremists say government regulation is evil. In some industries, that regulation is essential. Especially when the company is so mafioso corrupt as to think the purpose of a company is profits. As is taught in business schools.

In some states, AT&T still has first generation cells. And fewer third generation. Cost controls as is taught in and routinely advocated by business school graduates. Other companies are earning profits instead by providing better service. AT&T chooses to solve their long term profit problems by using money games - as advocated by Wall Street.

tw 11-28-2011 12:53 AM

From Marketwatch dated 25 Nov 2011:

If AT&T's acquisition of T-Mobile fails, as appears likely, it will cost AT&T some $4 billion, according to the terms of the deal. If AT&T had spent half of that $4 billion on public relations in the first place, the deal would not be falling apart.

AT&T does not realize (or care) that many people hate the company. After my wife spent far too many hours on the phone over more than a year trying to keep AT&T from slamming us with bogus long-distance hookups and dubious charges, I include myself in that equation.

There are probably more hateful sites targeting AT&T than any of the major carriers. Google the term "AT&T sucks" to see some examples.

Lamplighter 11-28-2011 01:21 AM

AT&T may well be whatever people think it is, I don't know.
But my issue here is really something completely different...

By what service or product is this $39 BILLION merger benefiting the AT&T customers ?
My answer is none.
The merger was concocted to give AT&T a larger influence over the industry, "added spectrum"

If AT&T does attempt to sell off a significant part of it's holdings, who will it sell to ?
The only buyers being talked about are "investment" firms that
foresee $ is to be made from transactions activity. These firms
openly admit they have "no expertise" in the operations of this industry.

IMO, AT&T represents many corporations today that no longer earn $
from services or products, but instead seek profits only in mergers and acquisitions.

Think about it...
A $4 BILLION fee for "failing to merge".
A $4 BILLION fee for leaving the situation as just as it is now ????

I doubt the upper echelons of AT&T are even remotely concerned with service to customers.

tw 11-28-2011 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 776125)
The merger was concocted to give AT&T a larger influence over the industry, "added spectrum"

Other cell phone companies needed no additional spectrum. To support more phones, one simply breaks a cell into smaller cells. Doubles, Triples, or quadruples the number of phones supported in that cell. Other simple techniques include directional antennas. Each antenna serving a different slice of the cell.

AT&T's own memo says why they want to spend $39 billion for Cingular to eliminate competition. To provide same service while giving the customer even less alternative choices. It is exactly what a business school graduate would do and exactly what product oriented management would never do.

It is also what the George Jr administration did to the internet. To eliminate all but two big providers in every region. As a result, internet service in America quickly fell from the world's top ten. George Jr's administration also was concerned for profits - enriching their campaign donors. Not about free markets and better customer service. AT&T is simply doing what Michael Powel, et al were doing to maximize profits; stifle innovation; the product (and consumer) be damned.

They only say they need more spectrum because so many cannot see through that myth. Similar myths also proved that steel and memory chip industries needed to be protected from unfair competition, that Kodak needed protection from unfair film competition, that American automakers needed protection from superior designed overseas cars, and that drug prices must be maintained 40% higher to protect big Pharma. In each case, that company or industry was operating to the detriment of America. Was only concerned about the profits and management bonuses. Even blamed the workers. And therefore continued making obsolete products or buggy whips.

AT&T will spend massive sums to protect their profit margins from companies that bother to innovate. Its another classic example of management that cost controls rather than advance mankind.

classicman 11-28-2011 04:41 PM


tw 12-02-2011 09:14 PM

This is major. From the Washington Post of 2 Dec 2011:

Verizon Wireless makes marketing, airwave deal with three cable companies
Under the deal announced Friday, Verizon will pay $3.6 billion to Comcast, Time Warner and Brightline Cable to use a swath of cellphone airwaves that the cable giants own but do not use. That would cement Verizon's status as the dominant wireless carrier and give it access to valuable spectrum at a time when its primary rival "AT&T" is struggling to expand its network through a controversial proposed merger with T-Mobile.

But perhaps the most extraordinary aspect of the deal is its cooperative marketing arrangement that calls for the cable companies and Verizon to "become agents to sell one another's products." ...

The cable companies would essentially kill plans to move into the cellular industry. Meanwhile, Verizon would promote the cable companies even where it offers its fledgling cable and home Internet service known as FiOS.

... some antitrust experts are worried about deal. They are especially concerned that Verizon - in its push to dominate wireless services and its new obligation to promote other cable companies - will lose interest in FiOS altogether. That business has about 14 percent of U.S. households, but it has been expensive to build.

classicman 12-02-2011 09:21 PM


ZenGum 12-02-2011 10:10 PM

[Karl] Jah, as I explained in Das Kapital, zer means of produktion are concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, until they are in a form where they can be seized by the proletariat. [Marx]

I wonder if that will actually happen. :corn:

Stormieweather 12-09-2011 09:04 AM


Verizon FIOS is much better than the cable internet I've experienced. Faster, more reliable, same price.

/hijack off

Lamplighter 12-19-2011 07:28 PM

NY Times
December 19, 2011

AT&T Ends $39 Billion Bid for T-Mobile

AT&T said on Monday afternoon that it had withdrawn its $39 billion
takeover bid for T-Mobile USA, acknowledging that it could not overcome opposition
from the Obama administration to creating the nation’s biggest cellphone service provider.

Under the terms of the deal, AT&T will pay Deutsche Telekom $4 billion in cash
and wireless spectrum as a break-up fee, and the two companies will begin
a seven-year roaming agreement that will expand T-Mobile’s national coverage.

The company said in a statement that it would continue to invest in wireless spectrum,
but could not overcome resistance from both the Justice Department and
the Federal Communications Commission. It added that American wireless customers
“will be harmed and needed investment will be stifled” by the regulators’ decisions.
Oh sure, it was Obama's fault AT&T entered into an agreement to pay out $4 billion - if
the merger fell through. Now, guess who is really going to pay...

infinite monkey 12-20-2011 09:13 AM

I don't get big business. :(

So, like, if I want to buy say...a moped. And I talk to the guy who is selling the moped. I get pressure from my family that I shouldn't get a moped because I would smash my head off. So instead, I don't buy the moped and I give the moped guy 50 bucks.


Clodfobble 12-20-2011 12:02 PM

Well, because you sat there and asked the guy questions about mopeds for hours and hours, and asked him to print up and give you detailed moped schematics, and even called him at home in the middle of the night after you had a big fight with your mom about whether or not a helmet would protect you from head-smashing incidents, and asked him to get out of bed and send you all the pertinent crash-related statistics on helmet safety right away.

In short, you wasted a lot of his time, so you owe him a little something for that.

infinite monkey 12-20-2011 12:05 PM

So? He's the seller. He could have told me to fuck off. He doesn't have to sell to me.

Just as I don't have to buy from him. Fuck his "time."

SamIam 12-20-2011 12:27 PM

Yeah, sales is part luck of the draw and part art. I did commission sales for a while, and often people would come in and just waste my time. This was really annoying when a for reals customer came in and some other sales associate got to sell him the gazillion inch TV with all the accessories, because I was stuck with some lookie-loo. Its just life - win some, lose some. Sears certainly didn't care about the value of my time. If I wasn't making enough on commission, I was paid minimum wage and that amount was subtracted from my commission sales. In effect, I was paying Sears to be out on their sales floor.

Its a dog eat dog world fer sure.

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