The Cellar - It was either here, or in Technology

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The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)

- Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - It was either here, or in Technology (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=4095)

Elspode

10-08-2003 09:40 PM

It was either here, or in Technology

Interesting article regarding a possible link between naval sonar and aquatic mammal strandings and deaths...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ce_dolphins_dc

Pretty freaky, huh?

Beestie

10-09-2003 08:57 AM

Maybe they could just change the wavelength to one outside of the "problem range" for these animals.

I wonder what those pings sound like to whales that could make them want to get the hell out of there so fast.

OnyxCougar

10-09-2003 09:31 AM

I'm not an activist or anything, or against technology, but this just makes me sad.

Our technology is causing serious damage to the environment again, but the article doesn't mention anything about what they are doing to change the way they use sonar or develop other systems. Just, "yeah, it's widely accepted that our sonar harms the cetaceans, and now we have evidence that says it actually gives them the bends. That's too bad."

Military superiority is always more important than innocent lives.

Beestie

10-09-2003 10:15 AM

Quote:

Our technology is causing serious damage to the environment

True but the problem (technology) is also the solution. I'd say its not so much technology - little more than a powerful tool - but human nature that causes environmental damage.

It always gets back to having to compete with those who have less regard for the rules than you do. :(

[edited to fix grammatical error - content unchanged]

DNK	10-09-2003 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Military superiority is always more important than innocent lives.

Military superiority also protects innocent lives.

GBA

DNK

juju	10-09-2003 12:23 PM

Perhaps the sonar interferes with their natural navigation methods?

Elspode

10-09-2003 01:28 PM

I would assume that the frequencies being used have been carefully chosen for the desired application, and are probably therefore the best for the usage intended. It is unlikely that Navy brass would accept any changes that would degrade the performance of their systems.

The factors involved are both the range of frequencies being used, and the intensity of the sound. You have to make a really, really loud noise in many cases to make sonar do what you want.

Beestie

10-09-2003 07:11 PM

Looks like Elspode is on the money .

Quote:

...the Navy conducted an intense active sonar exercise... emitting high-energy, mid frequency sonar at between 215 and 235dB... Sound at 235dB produces a pressure wave 300,000 times more intense than an 180dB sound, and 100 billion times more intense than a 120dB sound, which is like a loud motorboat engine.

Quote:

..."the killing is largely due to injurious resonance phenomena created by the U.S. Naval sonar system in the whales' cranial airspaces, tearing apart delicate tissues around the brains and ears."

Now I understand why the animals are bolting to the surface with such reckless abandon. Gotta be a better way to do this. Why can't they use radar or something???

Griff

10-10-2003 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DNK

Military superiority also protects innocent lives.

That is an urban legend.

Pie	10-10-2003 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beestie
Now I understand why the animals are bolting to the surface with such reckless abandon. Gotta be a better way to do this. Why can't they use radar or something???

Radar frequencies won't propagate under water.

- Pie

xoxoxoBruce

10-10-2003 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff

That is an urban legend.

How can you say that? Without a strong military those damn Canadians would be on us in a heartbeat.;)

Griff

10-10-2003 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pie

Radar frequencies won't propagate under water.

- Pie

Did you mean, "Radar's frequency doesn't propagate anywhere."

slang

10-10-2003 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
anywhere *."

* - cept slang's feeble mind. :D

Beestie

10-13-2003 01:50 PM

Well I'll be damned - check this out:

Navy to Limit Deployment of Low Frequency Sonar

Good work, people! :D

OnyxCougar

10-13-2003 03:40 PM

Well, it's a good start, but so is 1 million lawyers drowning in the ocean.

Reorder a few paragraphs from that article:

Quote:

Surette said that there is no scientific support to the charge that low-frequency sonar will harm sea creatures and that the Navy spent $10 million to do an environmental impact assessment that found in its favor. But other researchers have concluded that high-powered sonar can and does cause marine mammals to beach themselves and die.

In particular, Surette said, the Navy wants to see the law clarified regarding what constitutes "harassment" of whales, dolphins and porpoises, and how many of them can be inadvertently killed without breaking environmental laws.

Oh yeah, he sure cares about the cetaceans. We can tell. Prolly sends em a can of tuna for Christmas. Jerk.

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