The Cellar - 1 million worthless pennies

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1 million worthless pennies

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From CNN
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- A California man who collected 1 million pennies for a bet is having a hard time cashing in on his $10,000 fortune.

Ron England has amassed 3.6 tons of copper in his garage in the Los Angeles suburb of Granada Hills after making a bet with his brother 30 years ago that he could collect 1 million pennies.

But neither the U.S. Mint, the U.S. Comptroller of Currency, coin collectors nor the local bank is interested in cashing in his stash -- at least without a charge.

"I've been working seriously for the past two weeks to get rid of these pennies," England, 60, told the Los Angeles Daily News. "It's kind of frustrating. Nobody will take them without charging me."

What's worse. England is still waiting for his brother to honor his side of the bet -- a meal in Paris.

"I don't remember making the wager. Am I still good for it? I'm not going to answer that question," Russ England told the Daily News.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pennies are still a legal tender to debts. Doesn't the government HAVE to change them?

Re: 1 million worthless pennies

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Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Correct me if I'm wrong, but pennies are still a legal tender to debts. Doesn't the government HAVE to change them?

Not unless you have a debt to the government to pay. Like one's income tax or an assload of parking and library fines. :)

A lower court in the midwest has already set a precedent that coins are legal tender that can be used to settle a financial obligation. The case was a person who paid her parking fines in coins. The municipality wouldn't accept them but the court forced them to.

If there were such a thing as a smart bank manager, he or she might decide to make a big publicity stunt out of accepting the coins - invite the media and whatnot.

Re: 1 million worthless pennies

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Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Correct me if I'm wrong, but pennies are still a legal tender to debts. Doesn't the government HAVE to change them?

Based on what you posted, I don't see the government necessarily refusing to take them back.

In Australia we have legislation that limits the dollar amount that must be accepted as payment. I forget the figure but it was less than $10 before we introduced $1 and $2 coins. I don't know if the limit was raised when the higher value coins came in.

We used to have 1c and 2c coins too, but they were dropped several years ago. Now every price and charge gets rounded up or down to the nearest 5 cents.

All he has to do is deposit them in a bank account, IF THEY ARE ROLLED.:)

Some banks will count coins for free if you have an account with them (like Commerce here in Philadelphia).

And there's always CoinStar...9 cents for every dollar counted, though I don't know if a grocery store would have that much money to hand out for cashed-in coin.

how much does a penny weigh?

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So, what is the mass of a penny? Well, an interesting change took place in 1982. Prior to that year, pennies were 95% Copper and 5% zinc. After 1982 the composition became 97.6% zinc and 2.4% copper. (1982 pennies can be either one of these. Oh and in 1943 pennies were made of a steel & zinc combination but we won't concern ourselves with those). So, the point is that pre-1982 pennies will have a different mass than pennies made after 1982. So, how about 'weighing' (determining the mass) of some pennies.

First, we will have to construct a crude scale. One way is to hang a plastic disposable cup from a rubber band and attach it vertically to a ruler. (Again, don't just take our suggestions. Perhaps you could find your own method of 'weighing' the pennies). Now we must use a 'standard' mass and the best substance for that would be water. Fill the cup with 100 milliliters (cubic centimeters) of water. This has a mass of 100 grams. (Remember the point on the ruler the cup reaches). Now empty the cup of water and fill it up with pre-1982 pennies until the cup reaches the same point as when you had it filled with water. The number of pennies in the cup will have a mass of 100 grams. (In case you are wondering, the number of pre-1982 pennies that equal 100 grams is about 32.(So each of these pennies has a mass of 3.1 grams). (However, do the experiment yourself). Now do the same with pennies made after 1982. (This will be about 40 pennies and so each of these pennies has a mass of about 2.5 grams).

Okay, you have now determined the size and the mass of pennies. Now time to move on to density.

D E N S I T Y

Density is defined by the formula:

Density = Mass/Volume

(Not to confuse you anymore, but a lot of people use specific gravity and density interchangeably. However, specific gravity refers to the density of a substance compared to water - grams per cubic centimeter. (Almost always, densities are expressed this way but it is important to know the difference).

You have determined that a penny's volume is .360 cubic centimeters and the mass is 3.1 grams (pre-1982) and 2.5 grams (after 1982). So the densities are:
D = 3.1/.360 = 8.6 grams/ cubic centimeter(pre-1982)
D = 2.5/.360 = 6.94 grams/cubic centimeter (after 1982)

how would you seperate the copper from the zinc in under a year?

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Melting Point of Copper = 1,083°Celsius (=1,981°Farenheit)
Melting Point of Zinc = 419.6°Celsius (=787°Farenheit)

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Scrap Copper Average (US $/lbs) : 1.02

3.5cents/gram

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Scrap Zinc Average (US $/lbs) : 0.51

1.75c/g

allowing that he held a 50/50 split of the two types of coin, that's 2.5c per penny if he melts them and sells them that way.

less to cost of the smelting, of course.

If I remember correctly, a store can refuse to take pennies in payment if the amount is over 25 cents.

However, if the pennies are rolled and deposited into a bank account, the bank will take them. Calling ahead and setting up an appointment is always a good idea in this instance.

Or her could throw them off a tall building.
Rolled or loose.
Makes no difference to me.

Re: Re: 1 million worthless pennies

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Originally posted by Beestie
Not unless you have a debt to the government to pay.

But the full phrase is actually "legal tender for all debts, public and private"--doesn't the "private" bit mean that once a private citizen has claimed an obligation of some amount on the part of another citizen, they're required to accept the currency (in the proper amount of course) as payment of the obligation?

Of course, that phrase is printed on bills.... but does not appear on the coins!!

Where would you put it on a coin? They're pretty stuffed with stuff as it is.

Here's another link to the same story from WTOP news in DC. It expands a bit on what was posted above.

ooookay, in the light of day, my math is all fucked up. made perfect sense last night......i forgot to divie the mass of the penny into the price per gram. that makes the value per gram of a penny before '82 just a smidge higher than face value, and the post '82 pennies a losing proposition. in short, nevermind. :blush:

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Originally posted by sycamore
And there's always CoinStar...9 cents for every dollar counted, though I don't know if a grocery store would have that much money to hand out for cashed-in coin.

Do you have a Coinstar machine that will be able to fit a million pennies inside? I don't know about yours, but mine aren't that big! Imagine the look on the Coinstar tech guy's face when he comes in and finds his machine overflowing with pennies, spilling out onto the floor, rolling in the aisles, stacked on the Rug Doctor display, blocking the mini ATM, all the while the manager will be glaring at him and trying to shoo off the bums who are trying to collect and cart off the loose change and shoppers will be snickering as they go past and see him shoveling pennies into sacks and grumbling under his breath, just wondering, is there a penalty for excessive comma abuse, and what is the record for the longest run-on sentence in the Cellar?

Brian "feeling a bit silly today"

I've got a sparklets water bottle full of pennies and I continue to save them. If just one of that guys pennies were a 1943 copper penny (only a few got through) it is worth at least $100,000, but it sure would take a long time to find it.

Anybody with the patience to collect a million pennies ought to be able to suck it up and cart them in $100 at a time!

I wonder if he has any outstanding debts that need to be paid asap. Otherwise, I don't see why anyone wouldn't be happy with a $100 infusion of cash everyday. I mean, he's going to retire soon, so it's not like he won't have the time to do it. If not everyday, then 3 times a week. Who's going to complain about an extra $300 in their account every week?

And besides, does his bank only have one branch? Why couldn't he take the maximum allowed to Branch X then later, take to Branch Y and maybe a Branch Z later, then go back to Branch X once they've sent off the cash?