[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by lookout123

the more ways you separate people the deeper the divides in this country will become until there comes a day when we are completely unable to relate to people that don't look and sound like "us".

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Make-up your mind, either segregation is good or it is not.

I have said this numerous times, this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale. Let me say that again, it will encourage integration on a larger scale. If we segregate the kids and get them a better education, then they can get jobs they would not normally get going to the schools we have now. Then when more black kids are holding jobs that makes more money, they can move to the suburbs and further integrate society.

Originally Posted by lookout

black kids get higher scores if taught by black teachers? show me. are they the same general knowledge tests taken by every other shade of kid? were all learning conditions other than the color of the kids and teachers the same? is the teacher/student ratio the same? over what subjects? over what time period?

I showed you that article and I can tell you I have the word of more than one person who knows what they are talking about. It makes sense anyways.

Why do you think black kids do worse than white kids in integrated schools? Until you can answer that question we can get nowhere with this subject.

if the educational materials are the same and the teachers' skill and experience are the same and the students intelligence and ability to learn are the same then the results should be the same.

But the results aren't the same. That means there is some variable that you are not looking at. Social pressures play a large role in this and it has been shown that social pressures can influence academic results. Look up Jane Elliot for an example.

A black kid can't be fully educated by a white teacher because of the difference in their experiences? BS. if they are saying the education is better because they focus on "black subjects" or perspectives then they aren't receiving the same education and the scores are completely irrelevant.

No, the reason is much more psychological. It really doesn't have as much do to with the material as it does with role models and atmosphere.

what's next - specific schools for kids coming from defined income brackets? i only want my kid to learn from teachers that make XX dollars per year. they'll be able to identify more fully with that experience and obviously learn more.

Shit, I think I just broke my leg falling down that slippery slope.

this is just more PC bullshit that can be pushed out there because people are afraid that if they disagree they'll be labeled racist. Anything that divides and classifies on anything other skill and ability is wrong.

No, this is not PC bullshit. This idea goes against PC, just look at the reaction given when this idea was brought up. PC says that if we put everyone together we will all be happy. But guess what, that isn't happening so we need to fuck the current method and find something that works. This is a potential method so we might as well give it a try.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

In poor areas where people are lighter and the drop-out rates are high for lighter kids this formula will work for them as well if it is, in fact, accurate.

Actually, this formula would work for that, but it would have to add a twist to it. Do you get the point of this segregation idea rkzenrage? I mean seriously, what is the logic behind it?

As for the advantages today, I have only seen whites not getting jobs, scholarships and promotions because of their color these days... not enough room because others must be given the position to fill quotas. Advantage is urban myth now.

Really? Do I really need to pull out the stats? I mean, just for one, there is a study that says that a white guy with a criminal record has the same chance of getting a job as a black guy without a criminal record when they both have the same credentials. Most of the advantages you don't see and you can't even takes statistics of anyways. What do you think institutionalized means?

BINGO... we have a winner.

So you think that family is the sole influence on education? So that means my brother and I should have gotten the same scores throughout high school because our parents pushed us and emphasized education the same for both of us? But guess what, we didn't.

So you don't think teachers, environment, administration, friends, expectations from society, role models, and overall determination have no effect on how well a child does in school? Parents obviously have a large effect but it is definitely not the sole influence.