Black Only Schools Proposed

[lookout123]

the more ways you separate people the deeper the divides in this country will become until there comes a day when we are completely unable to relate to people that don't look and sound like "us".

black kids get higher scores if taught by black teachers? show me. are they the same general knowledge tests taken by every other shade of kid? were all learning conditions other than the color of the kids and teachers the same? is the teacher/student ratio the same? over what subjects? over what time period?

if the educational materials are the same and the teachers' skill and experience are the same and the students intelligence and ability to learn are the same then the results should be the same. A black kid can't be fully educated by a white teacher because of the difference in their experiences? BS. if they are saying the education is better because they focus on "black subjects" or perspectives then they aren't receiving the same education and the scores are completely irrelevant.

what's next - specific schools for kids coming from defined income brackets? i only want my kid to learn from teachers that make XX dollars per year. they'll be able to identify more fully with that experience and obviously learn more.

this is just more PC bullshit that can be pushed out there because people are afraid that if they disagree they'll be labeled racist. Anything that divides and classifies on anything other skill and ability is wrong.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by lookout123

what's next - specific schools for kids coming from defined income brackets? i only want my kid to learn from teachers that make XX dollars per year. they'll be able to identify more fully with that experience and obviously learn more.

this is just more PC bullshit that can be pushed out there because people are afraid that if they disagree they'll be labeled racist. Anything that divides and classifies on anything other skill and ability is wrong.

I agree totally, we already have an income difference in the private school system. The reality is that many of the upper income parents spend a crap load of money, and some who can't really afford to do it as well, to send their kids to schools they deem to be "Better" because they are private. In the end the kids do not seem to be any smarter, just more stuck up. As a percent that go on to college they most likely have a higher number who do, but that is more likely a function of social exposure in the home, not what they are taught in school. Parents who value education and higher learning will teach their children the same values.

[lookout123]

I ridiculed private school kids when i was growing up. they were isolated, naive, and snobby. the education i received in the illinois public school system was great and life was good.

now i live in another state. the teachers that i know won't even send their own kids through the system they work in. so my kid goes to a private school. the tuition sucks but i pay less for him to go there than the dollar amount that the public schools claim they spend per child in their system. the learning materials are the same. the teachers have the same degrees and comparable experience levels. but the kids at his school test an average of 1.5 years ahead of the public school kids on the state tests. Why?

i believe it has very little to do with the way subjects are taught and almost everything to do with the families the kids come from. kids aren't smarter because their parents send them to private school, but they do tend to be a little more accountable. my kid doesn't go to a "rich school". nearly half the kids there are on some sort of needs based scholarship to assist with tuition. the difference is that parents who are willing to sacrifice to come up with the cash to send their kids to the private school obviously place value on education. 100% of them or they wouldn't spend the money.

When Johnny comes home the parent tends to ask about their homework. Maybe even helps them with it. The parents encourage learning. When Johnny goes to school he is surrounded by kids that come from similarly commited families. the kid who screws around and causes problems gets to meet with parents and teachers. either the parents and child straighten the problem out or the kid leaves the school. far fewer problems for the teacher to deal with means more time spent trying to teach the kids.

this is not to say that families who send their kids to public schools don't care - most do care. but there will be that one kid that sucks up a lot of class time being a jackass because that is what is acceptable within his family. the family sets the level of importance for education regardless of color, language, religion, or income level.

*although i feel the system needs a massive overhaul i am not anti-public school. i just happen to live in an area with very very crappy public schools.

[xoxoxoBruce]

the family sets the level of importance for education regardless of color, language, religion, or income level.

BINGO... we have a winner.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by lookout123

the more ways you separate people the deeper the divides in this country will become until there comes a day when we are completely unable to relate to people that don't look and sound like "us".

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Make-up your mind, either segregation is good or it is not.

I have said this numerous times, this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale. Let me say that again, it will encourage integration on a larger scale. If we segregate the kids and get them a better education, then they can get jobs they would not normally get going to the schools we have now. Then when more black kids are holding jobs that makes more money, they can move to the suburbs and further integrate society.

Originally Posted by lookout

black kids get higher scores if taught by black teachers? show me. are they the same general knowledge tests taken by every other shade of kid? were all learning conditions other than the color of the kids and teachers the same? is the teacher/student ratio the same? over what subjects? over what time period?

I showed you that article and I can tell you I have the word of more than one person who knows what they are talking about. It makes sense anyways.

Why do you think black kids do worse than white kids in integrated schools? Until you can answer that question we can get nowhere with this subject.

if the educational materials are the same and the teachers' skill and experience are the same and the students intelligence and ability to learn are the same then the results should be the same.

But the results aren't the same. That means there is some variable that you are not looking at. Social pressures play a large role in this and it has been shown that social pressures can influence academic results. Look up Jane Elliot for an example.

A black kid can't be fully educated by a white teacher because of the difference in their experiences? BS. if they are saying the education is better because they focus on "black subjects" or perspectives then they aren't receiving the same education and the scores are completely irrelevant.

No, the reason is much more psychological. It really doesn't have as much do to with the material as it does with role models and atmosphere.

what's next - specific schools for kids coming from defined income brackets? i only want my kid to learn from teachers that make XX dollars per year. they'll be able to identify more fully with that experience and obviously learn more.

Shit, I think I just broke my leg falling down that slippery slope.

this is just more PC bullshit that can be pushed out there because people are afraid that if they disagree they'll be labeled racist. Anything that divides and classifies on anything other skill and ability is wrong.

No, this is not PC bullshit. This idea goes against PC, just look at the reaction given when this idea was brought up. PC says that if we put everyone together we will all be happy. But guess what, that isn't happening so we need to fuck the current method and find something that works. This is a potential method so we might as well give it a try.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

In poor areas where people are lighter and the drop-out rates are high for lighter kids this formula will work for them as well if it is, in fact, accurate.

Actually, this formula would work for that, but it would have to add a twist to it. Do you get the point of this segregation idea rkzenrage? I mean seriously, what is the logic behind it?

As for the advantages today, I have only seen whites not getting jobs, scholarships and promotions because of their color these days... not enough room because others must be given the position to fill quotas. Advantage is urban myth now.

Really? Do I really need to pull out the stats? I mean, just for one, there is a study that says that a white guy with a criminal record has the same chance of getting a job as a black guy without a criminal record when they both have the same credentials. Most of the advantages you don't see and you can't even takes statistics of anyways. What do you think institutionalized means?

BINGO... we have a winner.

So you think that family is the sole influence on education? So that means my brother and I should have gotten the same scores throughout high school because our parents pushed us and emphasized education the same for both of us? But guess what, we didn't.

So you don't think teachers, environment, administration, friends, expectations from society, role models, and overall determination have no effect on how well a child does in school? Parents obviously have a large effect but it is definitely not the sole influence.