W.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

Has anyone here seen "W" or know anyone who has seen "W"? It's a movie that I don't understand. Not the plot (I haven't seen it) but simply the fact that it was made in the first place.

Even the long term relationship between Cheney and Powell is demonstrated. Stunning is how W. so accurately depicts how we got there.

In a stunning scene, with a map of Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan on a projection screen, one can appreciate how Cheney, Wolfovitz, Tenant, Rumsfeld, Rice, W., etc came to a consensus. Not only Powell's position based on logic and knowledge. Not only how Powell eventually become so forceful and isolated in those meetings. But also how resulting decisions were achieved. Numerous meetings condensed into one to make the movie. But a meeting that accurately demonstrated how that consensus was achieved AND how various personalities interplayed.

I was struck by how accurately each person was portrayed making it so obvious who was who. Moreso I was blown away when I finally realized who played Cheney - a stunning performance.

Appreciate the deep seated knowledge that Powell provided. How Rumsfeld was so skilled at manipulating or spinning facts. How Condi Rice routinely offered nothing of substance. The mystery or conundrum of George Tenant. How George Jr's life experience brought him to the conclusions he made and the subtle relationship with Cheney. How George Sr was always so opposed to "Mission Accomplished" and how George Jr would only learn of this through third parties. How George Jr and Laura probably had a unique and supportive relationship.

W. demonstrates how George Jr's administration achieved decisions as documented by numerous authors including Bob Woodward. Woodward was given unprecedented access to George Jr's administration. Also well documented are the confrontations between Powell and others.

Although condensed for the movie’s benefit, George Jr finally asks a damning question in a 2003 meeting. Who is in charge of looking for WMDs? No phase four planning becomes obvious in that answer.

Also portrayed is David Kay’s confession.

Demonstrated are George Jr's tremendous ability to remember names. How he turned his life around. How Rove et al taught him the art of answering questions by identifying keywords with automatic responses. His relationship to George Sr. And, of course, how George Jr suddenly appreciated what George Sr meant about staying out of the barrel (which probably occurred about the same time that Laura bluntly corrected his cowboy attitude with productive results).

Necessary to justify war are a smoking gun, a strategic objective, and an exit strategy. Especially telling is the answer to, "What is our exit strategy?"

Like any movie telling history, much is condensed into single scenes. However to appreciate how we and they got there, W. portrays the greatness and the limitations of George Bush Jr. It tells a story that I suspect a majority never knew. Not just a story about George Jr. It also tells the story of George Sr.

Missing are important characters such as Karen Hughes, Ashcroft, Garner, Armitage, Ridge, Judith Miller, Feith, Mylorie, and Congress, the chaos of 11 September, the daughters, Katrina, a total meltdown of international relations, and other events. This is a historical story of how George Jr got where he is and why he did. Told by limiting its plot to what led up to "Mission Accomplished". Based upon extensive reading and insider interviews, this movie is an accurate depiction - a story we should all understand to appreciate how and why even the most absurd can happen. This is not a story with a political agenda. This is a story of triumph and tragedy based in historical fact.

[glatt]

Thanks for your post tw. I still have no desire to see it, but I appreciate reading your take on it.

[Cicero]

I actually appreciated the fact that they left out 911. I thought it showed some class. I usually don't get caught up in family drama, but if there is any truth to this "poppy" stuff, I am going to have a real guffaw. I liked how George Senior was played as a real leader, and somehow jr. could never measure up. I totally see that in real life. I also never knew that Bush lost an election early on, and I still need to see if there is any truth to it.

Not that I believe for one minute he actually memorized the names of everyone at his sorority house. The automatic shoe-in is more believable.

One thing the film inspired for me was pity. If only for a couple of hours I felt sorry for W. That is movie magic I did not expect, and could not keep myself from doing. I feel my suspension of disbelief is appalling in that regard. I just could not stop myself.

I think it's a good watch. I think it's strange that people here "couldn't be paid to watch it". Considering what they are willing to watch on the average. huh. Quirky. Must be "election and vote cellar". "version 2008."

[Pico and ME]

I wont for the same reason I didn't go see Fahrenheit 911...I feel that I have already had plenty of access to the information.

[Undertoad]

I'll see it if J wants to go, but Oliver Stone...

[Cicero]

Did you refuse to watch JFK too? Or did you have all the information and access to it? I love it when you guys get high brow all of a sudden. All of a sudden everyone becomes very discriminate about what they watch and what they do, when I know they have been on the cellar. lol! Love it!

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I think it's strange that people here "couldn't be paid to watch it". Considering what they are willing to watch on the average. huh. Quirky. Must be "election and vote cellar". "version 2008."

I think you are talking about me, but I said exactly the opposite. That I could be paid to watch it.

[Pico and ME]

Cic...jeeze...highbrow?

The reason I gave was how I initially felt, I dont see why its highbrow though. I really dont want to see it...I probably wont even rent it when it comes out on DVD. Its too soon for me. Im not interested in someones take on his life after all these years of hearing about him.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by glatt

I think you are talking about me, but I said exactly the opposite. That I could be paid to watch it.

Yes, completely different.

I am really interested in the opinion of people that have watched it, myself. What was your impression as a viewer? I agree with the t-dub. The meeting scene was especially great, and condy playing the *cute* "yeswoman" was fabulous. The disappointment that Powell showed was fantastic. I never thought he "fit in" with that particular group, how it played out, or the possibilities, was on my mind.

I wondered if he just acquiesced, so he would be able to know what they were going to do anyway, not wanting to be shut out of the "people in the know" group.....Trying to stay in the loop of a group that stands by "either for or against" policies. I mean, wouldn't you feel responsible to stay in the group just to babysit to see what they were going to do next? If you say no and you are made to resign, you won't have any control whatsoever of their crazy-making in the future.

I like Powell. I've never understood any of his dealings with that administration. He seems like he isn't nuts. How did he manage is a great question, and I like that this movie attempted the small answer.

[Pico and ME]

I have enjoyed these reviews, though...

[glatt]

Well, I don't want to watch it because I lived through it and didn't enjoy living through it. So I don't want to live through it again, even in a movie.

Maybe in 5 years.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I like Powell. I've never understood any of his dealings with that administration.

Powell is a Republican. He entered office to service a Republican administration. But the Republican party that Powell (and Simpon, Specter, McCain, Snow, Gingrich, etc) work for is not the same party that was in the White House.

One does not know the story about vulcans pushing America into "Mission Acccomplished" until one grasps the confrontation in that meeting. Powell's arguments that were so correct, so well presented, and so obviously based in historical lessons; instead got no traction. Armitage has noted Powell's frustration elsewhere. But to appreciate what Armitage said, one must watch the scene. I cannot even begin to explain the social interplay. See it to appreciate how we got where we are.

We know so little about Laura or Goerge Tenent. I can only suspect this movie accurately portrayed both. Especially well captured is the contradiction that was CIA's Tenent. What we lived through is completely different from what those inside the administration lived through.

W. is a completely different from the same story we lived through. A completely different perspective that should be seen to be appreciated.

[Undertoad]

Cic, Oliver Stone is not exactly a documentarian.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

Well, I don't want to watch it because I lived through it and didn't enjoy living through it. So I don't want to live through it again, even in a movie.

Maybe in 5 years.

Same way I feel about all the 9/11 movies.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Same way I feel about all the 9/11 movies.

exactly. I didn't watch those either. The dramas or the Michael Moore one.