The dumbing down of America

classicman · 10-19-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

HONOLULU – At a time when President Barack Obama is pushing for more time in the classroom, his home state has created the nation's shortest school year under a new union contract that closes schools on most Fridays for the remainder of the academic calendar.

The deal whacks 17 days from the school year for budget-cutting reasons and has education advocates incensed that Hawaii is drastically cutting the academic calendar at a time when it already ranks near the bottom in national educational achievement.

While many school districts have laid off or furloughed teachers, reduced pay and planning days and otherwise cut costs, Hawaii's 171,000 public schools students now find themselves with only 163 instructional days, compared with 180 in most districts in the U.S.

"The 16-year-old in me is pretty excited that I'll be able to chill on those days," said Mark Aoki, a junior at Roosevelt High in Honolulu. "But overall within me, what I truly believe is that we'll regret this."

The cuts come as Obama, who graduated from a top private high school in Hawaii, says U.S. students are at a disadvantage with other students around the world because they spend too little time in school.

He wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go. He declared recently that "the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The deal in Hawaii and has parents and education authorities up in arms, including families now scrambling to find day care for the off days. Parents of special-needs students are considering suing the state, and advocates believe the plan will have a "disparate impact" on poor families, ethnic communities and single parents.

"It's just not enough time for the kids to learn," said Valerie Sonoda, president of the Hawaii State Parent Teacher Student Association. "I'm getting hundreds of calls and e-mails. They all have the same underlying concern, and that is the educational hours of the kids."

Link

So thats how you keep the oppressed where you want them. Whats the direction again? More school or less?

Cloud · 10-19-2009, 08:19 PM

unfortunate. but people do not have to be in school to learn.

jinx · 10-19-2009, 08:21 PM

Hear, hear.

Griff · 10-19-2009, 08:26 PM

Right on. My kids go to a good school and I don't want them there any more than they already are. Other than "free" baby-sitting, I can't imagine why parents of kids in bad schools would want longer days.

SamIam · 10-19-2009, 08:30 PM

No, they don't, but how many average kids left to their own devices will shout, "I'm gonna study differential equations!" They are most likely going to hang out and TM each other or play on Facebook or sell drugs. School at least gives children some structure, especially those from socio-economically disadvantaged backgrounds. I graduated from college, but I needed the structure that attending a university gave me - there was no way I would have learned organic chemistry or calculus on my own.

jinx · 10-19-2009, 08:32 PM

There's a lot of fluff and wasted time to cut out before you get anywhere near cutting out calculus.

Griff · 10-19-2009, 08:34 PM

We have to remember that this is the State taking people's time by force. Stealing another's time is pretty serious.

monster · 10-19-2009, 09:42 PM

What they do in their "own" time is influenced by what they learn in school. Give them the tools to go out and learn about stuff that interests them ....some might be surprised by how far they will go with those tools. Try to "drum in" stuff you think they should know... and they're headed for the facebook and drugs to "recover"

monster · 10-19-2009, 09:50 PM

Remember the African windmill boy who tried to sneak into school (IOTD) ...maybe "taking education away" will ensure the kids value what they are getting more and have a positive effect overall.

At our swim club, we have learned that no-one values what is free.

We cover an economically challenged area, but the maximum scholarship we give for financial hardship is 50%. This has been our policy for maybe 6 years. We want to allow hard-up kids to swim for nothing, but if we offer them full scholarships, they don't show up -taking places of kids who really do want to swim, and when they do they mess about and disrupt everyone's time. make them pay some and they become dedicated.

until this year, we charge kids 1 & 2 in a family fullprice, 50% for kid #3 and free for the rest. The rest tooks spots and didn't show and messed about. This year we went 100% 75% and 50% for the first three, and $10/each for the rest. worked like a charm.

maybe Hawaii has the right idea -you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.....

Cloud · 10-19-2009, 09:50 PM

hmm. I think I sort of derailed this thread because of my personal disgust with the public school system.

Quote:

advocates believe the plan will have a "disparate impact" on poor families, ethnic communities and single parents.

and I'm sure this is true.

monster · 10-19-2009, 09:52 PM

Obama is misinformed with "more time in the classroom" imo. we need better time in the classtoom -quality not quantity.

monster · 10-19-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

hmm. I think I sort of derailed this thread because of my personal disgust with the public school system.
.

I don't think so. Jinx homeschools and I have my kids in an alternative-program school. to me at any rate -and obviously you and jinx too- the OP cries out for discussion that more time in school is not necesarily a good thing....

Cloud · 10-19-2009, 10:17 PM

it's not a point anyone is making in the news coverage though.

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/200...lame_game.html

TheMercenary · 10-20-2009, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Obama is misinformed with "more time in the classroom" imo. we need better time in the classtoom -quality not quantity.

That pretty much says it all. But unfortunately not all parents think that way or value education as much as the rest of us do. And you can't make kids do the work who do want to do it and are not supported by their parent(s) at home.

Cloud · 10-20-2009, 09:00 AM

I'm pretty sure Obama would agree that quality school time is also needed. (rolls eyes).

For many parents, school is little more than a babysitter. We have to change that.

10-19-2009, 08:19 PM	#2
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	unfortunate. but people do not have to be in school to learn. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-19-2009, 08:26 PM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Right on. My kids go to a good school and I don't want them there any more than they already are. Other than "free" baby-sitting, I can't imagine why parents of kids in bad schools would want longer days. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-19-2009, 08:32 PM	#6
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	There's a lot of fluff and wasted time to cut out before you get anywhere near cutting out calculus. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

10-19-2009, 08:34 PM	#7
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	We have to remember that this is the State taking people's time by force. Stealing another's time is pretty serious. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-19-2009, 09:42 PM	#8
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	What they do in their "own" time is influenced by what they learn in school. Give them the tools to go out and learn about stuff that interests them ....some might be surprised by how far they will go with those tools. Try to "drum in" stuff you think they should know... and they're headed for the facebook and drugs to "recover" __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

10-19-2009, 08:21 PM	#3
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Hear, hear. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

10-19-2009, 08:30 PM	#5
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	No, they don't, but how many average kids left to their own devices will shout, "I'm gonna study differential equations!" They are most likely going to hang out and TM each other or play on Facebook or sell drugs. School at least gives children some structure, especially those from socio-economically disadvantaged backgrounds. I graduated from college, but I needed the structure that attending a university gave me - there was no way I would have learned organic chemistry or calculus on my own.

10-19-2009, 09:50 PM	#9
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Remember the African windmill boy who tried to sneak into school (IOTD) ...maybe "taking education away" will ensure the kids value what they are getting more and have a positive effect overall. At our swim club, we have learned that no-one values what is free. We cover an economically challenged area, but the maximum scholarship we give for financial hardship is 50%. This has been our policy for maybe 6 years. We want to allow hard-up kids to swim for nothing, but if we offer them full scholarships, they don't show up -taking places of kids who really do want to swim, and when they do they mess about and disrupt everyone's time. make them pay some and they become dedicated. until this year, we charge kids 1 & 2 in a family fullprice, 50% for kid #3 and free for the rest. The rest tooks spots and didn't show and messed about. This year we went 100% 75% and 50% for the first three, and $10/each for the rest. worked like a charm. maybe Hawaii has the right idea -you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone..... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

10-19-2009, 09:52 PM	#11
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Obama is misinformed with "more time in the classroom" imo. we need better time in the classtoom -quality not quantity. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

10-19-2009, 10:17 PM	#13
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	it's not a point anyone is making in the news coverage though. http://www.starbulletin.com/news/200...lame_game.html __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-20-2009, 09:00 AM	#15
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	I'm pretty sure Obama would agree that quality school time is also needed. (rolls eyes). For many parents, school is little more than a babysitter. We have to change that. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

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