Should the governement ever sterilize someone?

Slartibartfast · 05-11-2004, 06:39 PM

read

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5771

and answer the poll!

Slartibartfast · 05-11-2004, 06:52 PM

ah shoot, I wanted the voters to be able to check more than one box. Can the powers that be correct that please?

Clodfobble · 05-11-2004, 07:09 PM

While I understand the "slippery slope" argument, I think it's a strong enough line in the sand to say that criminals can get sterilized (length of time to be determined) and not worry about the government being able to easily extend those restrictions to ordinary citizens later on. After all, no one's worried about the government suddenly deciding arbitrarily who can and can not be incarcerated, right? Sterilization becomes just another form of punishment, like a probation of sorts.

I would prefer that the "criminals" in question only be felons and not, say, your average pot smoker, but then again, pot smokers are already doing something illegal, so theoretically they will continue to not get caught. I'm not worried that the punishments could someday be disproportionate to the crime (like permanently sterilizing pot smokers would be) because I think public outrage would hold it back, just like it would today if some senator said "Hey, I think we need to make a life sentence mandatory for marijuana offenses."

The retarded, though, definitely not. Any children they have will be put in foster care anyway, they're not going to be given the chance the average person has to abuse them first.

05-11-2004, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clodfobble
After all, no one's worried about the government suddenly deciding arbitrarily who can and can not be incarcerated, right? Sterilization becomes just another form of punishment, like a probation of sorts.

I presume you're joking, right?

Clodfobble · 05-11-2004, 07:31 PM

I presume you're joking, right?

No, I wasn't. I'm not talking about the Patriot Act, this is a different issue. I'm talking about punishment for criminals in general. Are you suggesting that no one should go to prison ever, because giving the government the ability to incarcerate people is too dangerous since they might someday start incarcerating innocent people, or giving shoplifters life sentences?

It is reasonable to have punishment for criminals in the first place, and as such, I believe that this is a reasonable punishment and do not feel there is a danger that it will be extended to the populace at large.

Undertoad · 05-11-2004, 07:36 PM

That feature of the poll can't be changed once the poll's opened. Post a new thread and I'll move replies here, to there.

(edit: this is done, now.)

SteveDallas · 05-11-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clodfobble
.....I think public outrage would hold it back, just like it would today if some senator said "Hey, I think we need to make a life sentence mandatory for marijuana offenses."

It's not at all clear to me that such a statement would result in public outrage.

Based on the history of past attempts to decide who is and is not fit to reproduce (see "In the Name of Eugenics" by Daniel Kevles) I'm inclined to say the gummint should stay the hell out of it.

Slartibartfast · 05-11-2004, 08:27 PM

read

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5771

and answer the poll! [psa] What's your opinion? we'd like to know! [/psa]

Slartibartfast · 05-11-2004, 08:47 PM

okay, I've reposted the poll here:
http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5777

so this thread should implode any minute now.

richlevy · 05-11-2004, 08:53 PM

I thought pot smokers sterilize themselves.

elSicomoro · 05-11-2004, 08:54 PM

As sensible as it sounds to me in some cases, the government should never sterilize anyone. It reeks of eugenics and the government already has too much control these days.

05-11-2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clodfobble
I presume you're joking, right?

No, I wasn't. I'm not talking about the Patriot Act, this is a different issue. I'm talking about punishment for criminals in general. Are you suggesting that no one should go to prison ever, because giving the government the ability to incarcerate people is too dangerous since they might someday start incarcerating innocent people, or giving shoplifters life sentences?

It is reasonable to have punishment for criminals in the first place, and as such, I believe that this is a reasonable punishment and do not feel there is a danger that it will be extended to the populace at large.

Quote:

Originally posted by Clodfobble
After all, no one's worried about the government suddenly deciding arbitrarily who can and can not be incarcerated, right? Sterilization becomes just another form of punishment, like a probation of sorts.

I don't think people who commit crimes should just be able to waltz off with nary a consequence, but I am deeply concerned about the government arbitrarily deciding to do anything, never mind incarcerating people. In fact the government already does incarcerate innocent people. They're called Muslims, but who cares about them, right?

I have seen little in current events to leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling regarding the government's respect for anybody's rights. The founding fathers shared my pessimistic view of those in authority and gave us the right to keep and bear arms. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the government decided to incarcerate anybody who got in its way which is why I'm hanging on to my Dad's old semi-automatic.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-11-2004, 09:01 PM

Sterilize those pot smokers before they produce ....shudder ........hippies!

05-11-2004, 09:02 PM

NO:p

Undertoad · 05-11-2004, 09:17 PM

(threads merged)

View Poll Results: Who should the government be able to (temporarily or permanently) sterilize?
The government should never sterilize anyone	4	66.67%
child molesters	0	0%
rapists	0	0%
hard drug users	0	0%
pot smokers	2	33.33%
severely mentally ill, unable to care for themselves or others	0	0%
those with certain severe genetic illnesses that will be passed to decendants	0	0%
'hardened' criminals, use your definition of what hardened means	0	0%
super severe child neglectors that compulsively have children	0	0%
everyone gets sterilized, take intelligence (or other) test for child permit	0	0%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

05-11-2004, 06:39 PM	#1
Slartibartfast \|-0-\| <-0-> \|-0-\| Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	Should the governement ever sterilize someone? read http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5771 and answer the poll!

05-11-2004, 08:27 PM	#8
Slartibartfast \|-0-\| <-0-> \|-0-\| Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	Should the governement ever sterilize someone? read http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5771 and answer the poll! [psa] What's your opinion? we'd like to know! [/psa]

05-11-2004, 08:53 PM	#10
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	I thought pot smokers sterilize themselves. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

05-11-2004, 09:01 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Sterilize those pot smokers before they produce ....shudder ........hippies! __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-11-2004, 06:52 PM	#2
Slartibartfast \|-0-\| <-0-> \|-0-\| Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	ah shoot, I wanted the voters to be able to check more than one box. Can the powers that be correct that please?

05-11-2004, 07:09 PM	#3
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	While I understand the "slippery slope" argument, I think it's a strong enough line in the sand to say that criminals can get sterilized (length of time to be determined) and not worry about the government being able to easily extend those restrictions to ordinary citizens later on. After all, no one's worried about the government suddenly deciding arbitrarily who can and can not be incarcerated, right? Sterilization becomes just another form of punishment, like a probation of sorts. I would prefer that the "criminals" in question only be felons and not, say, your average pot smoker, but then again, pot smokers are already doing something illegal, so theoretically they will continue to not get caught. I'm not worried that the punishments could someday be disproportionate to the crime (like permanently sterilizing pot smokers would be) because I think public outrage would hold it back, just like it would today if some senator said "Hey, I think we need to make a life sentence mandatory for marijuana offenses." The retarded, though, definitely not. Any children they have will be put in foster care anyway, they're not going to be given the chance the average person has to abuse them first.

05-11-2004, 07:31 PM	#5
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I presume you're joking, right? No, I wasn't. I'm not talking about the Patriot Act, this is a different issue. I'm talking about punishment for criminals in general. Are you suggesting that no one should go to prison ever, because giving the government the ability to incarcerate people is too dangerous since they might someday start incarcerating innocent people, or giving shoplifters life sentences? It is reasonable to have punishment for criminals in the first place, and as such, I believe that this is a reasonable punishment and do not feel there is a danger that it will be extended to the populace at large.

05-11-2004, 07:36 PM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	That feature of the poll can't be changed once the poll's opened. Post a new thread and I'll move replies here, to there. (edit: this is done, now.)

05-11-2004, 08:47 PM	#9
Slartibartfast \|-0-\| <-0-> \|-0-\| Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	okay, I've reposted the poll here: http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5777 so this thread should implode any minute now.

05-11-2004, 08:54 PM	#11
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	As sensible as it sounds to me in some cases, the government should never sterilize anyone. It reeks of eugenics and the government already has too much control these days.

05-11-2004, 09:17 PM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	(threads merged)

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