Immigration

[Bullitt]

I'm surprised there is no thread yet on the walk-outs today by many immigrants, legal and illegal.
I'd like to hear your guys' opinions and takes on this issue. Being origionally from the southern Cali area, I pay much attention to the local politics and issues.
Do ya'll think all immigrants legal and illegal should get full amnesty? A new system of citizenship? Pay back taxes for the work they have done here in the US? Other?

[bluecuracao]

Full amnesty, or at least easier legal-status-gettin' for those already here. And everyone who wants to come here to work and make better lives for themselves should be allowed work permits, with a direct, simple process for becoming documented citizens.

[tw]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Full amnesty, or at least easier legal-status-gettin' for those already here.

And still the basic problem remains. And still not one useful solution is suggested. And still the reason for the problem is ignored. What kind of solution is that? One created by a Congressional compromise?

Once immigrants could come to America on days notice. Now an immigrant must spend years just to get a visa. We solved the problem all right. Using MBA concepts also advocated by a certain American president, we added more layers of bureaucracy. Then we added more unreadable forms and more laws so that even immigrants need lawyers. Yeph. Problems solved.

[9th Engineer]

The difference is largely based on how our system has changed in the meantime. Back then, if you wanted to come here you did, and either swam or sunk. Now they claim to have the right to my money in the form of healthcare, education, and housing.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by tw

And still the basic problem remains. And still not one useful solution is suggested. And still the reason for the problem is ignored. What kind of solution is that? One created by a Congressional compromise?

Once immigrants could come to America on days notice. Now an immigrant must spend years just to get a visa. We solved the problem all right. Using MBA concepts also advocated by a certain American president, we added more layers of bureaucracy. Then we added more unreadable forms and more laws so that even immigrants need lawyers. Yeph. Problems solved.

Tw (you idiot), your obsession with damning George W. Bush for everything including the Ice Ages again demonstrates how defective your mind is. You make cussing George look like something only the noncredible pusbrains will ever do, and thus you impair your own cause. Not that you can see this -- you have a singularly crippled mind and suffer from inappropriate mentation, which sounds like a symptom of mental illness to me. Idiot, idiot, thrice idiot. Get the hell back on your meds that you may once again think like a fully human being, and quit wearying us with your damned obsessions.

Now to topic: I figure that nothing done in Washington or the several States will have any perceptible effect on the "immigrant problem," which I put in quotes because it's not so much that we have a problem with illegal immigration as that Latin America in general has a terrible economic problem: no middle class visible without powerful magnification. The problem seems most severe in Mexico and its neighbors down the Isthmus, less severe in Brazil, Argentina and Chile, with the other nations in the region falling somewhere in the middle.

Expect either a greater influx of Bolivians, or a revolution down there to throw that dumb socialist Evo Morales out of power. Left to his own devices, he will personally collapse the Bolivian economy and then maintain power surrounded by poverty by using secret police, death squads, and political imprisonment.

Measures taken north of the Rio Grande will not strike at the root of the problem, which is the only place longterm solutions will be effectuated: Mexico needs a middle class and hasn't got one, which makes for an artificially enlarged poor class, one with no way up except out. The problem is in Latin America, and Latin America is where it must be solved.

With a large, enriched, and vibrant middle economic class, Mexico becomes the inmigrante magnet, and our problems are so much reduced as to be largely solved. Yeah, Mexico gets the problems instead, but too, the same reforms that work for Mexico will likely work for the other countries too; let libertarian reforms roll forward all the way to Tierra del Fuego. I keep telling the Cellar libertarians that this needs to happen -- they keep not understanding it.

[MaggieL]

If you catch a burglar in your living room, you might as well give him all your stuff. After all, he's already there, and he must be too poor to buy his own. All he wants is a better life for himself and his family.

[tw]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

If you catch a burglar in your living room, you might as well give him all your stuff. After all, he's already there, and he must be too poor to buy his own. All he wants is a better life for himself and his family.

Tell that to Rush Limbaugh who did the crime, does no time, AND ends up with no criminal record. The same man who insists "Do the crime, then do the time" will do no time and has no record of being a drug felon and money launder.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by tw

Tell that to Rush Limbaugh who did the crime, does no time, AND ends up with no criminal record. The same man who insists "Do the crime, then do the time" will do no time and has no record of being a drug felon and money launder.

I thought our system of justice was "innocent until proven guilty". That's one of the myriad rights and privileges available to citizens of this country.

Not illegals.

Why should those who choose to come into this country through legal means be shoved to the back of the line by a group of people who decided to force their way in illegally and then demand rights and support from the system?

(Hint: the correct answer is, "They shouldn't.")

[Jordon]

The only real solution is to start imprisoning the Americans who employ them. Take away the incentive of jobs and all the free perks, and they won't come anymore. Any illegals in America, regardless of their numbers, should be deported and Mexico forced to pay the cost. NO AMNESTY EVER.

None of Mexico's resources go to help their own poor; all that lines the pockets of Presidente Fox and his cronies.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

Tell that to Rush Limbaugh who did the crime, does no time, AND ends up with no criminal record. The same man who insists "Do the crime, then do the time" will do no time and has no record of being a drug felon and money launder.

Nice red herring.

Like most plea bargains, that one was created on the judgement of the prosecuting authority. I'd have no problem with Limbaugh doing time, inasmuch as he did the crime. Apparently the DA involved thinks this is better use of his resources.

I'm essentially with Jordon on the actual topic of this thread (although I think the chances of "forcing" the Mexican government to do anything in particular fall somewhere between "slim" and "none") Restrict the availability of illegal jobs and the illegal aliens will find their way home, we don't need to deport anyone.

Only if all other criminals get full amnesty.

[mrnoodle]

I'm totally behind that.

There was a guy on the radio yesterday who suggested that an employer who hires illegals should be deported to the country where the worker came from.

I'd be totally behind that, too.

[Kitsune]

So, did anyone notice any disruptions yesterday during the walkout? I have a feeling this is going to backfire on the protestors, as I don't think anything major came about because of their actions.

...and why do we suddenly care so much about this, anyways? It is not as though illegal immigrants are anything new to this country in recent months or anything. What the hell?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

So, did anyone notice any disruptions yesterday during the walkout? I have a feeling this is going to backfire on the protestors, as I don't think anything major came about because of their actions.

I honestly didn't notice a thing. I forgot it was even the day until the next morning when I heard some news about it on the radio.

When they had the big demonstrations a few weeks ago, there was MUCH more of an impact. At least where I was.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

...and why do we suddenly care so much about this, anyways?

Because a bill passed the House making being an illegal alien or helping one a felony, so a big campaign has been mounted to lobby against it. Kind of an uphill struggle given that we're pretty sure illegal aliens can't vote.

So far, anyway.

"Helping illegal aliens" must be a growth industry, based on how many US citizens who are doing it for a living that I've seen on mainstream media lately.