Seems somebody at the Miami Herald wants you dead

[Urbane Guerrilla]

...And his name is Leonard Pitts, Jr.

Leonard Pitts

He seems to think it would not be a good idea, in the case of schools coming under attack by crazy murderers as in Columbine or the Amish schoolhouse, to do anything at all to give the school a chance to defend itself until the heavy artillery of SWAT can come up.

It is a sorrowful thing to contemplate arming teachers and staff against assailants and multiple murderers, true. But how much sadder is it to be in a schoolroom -- supposed to be a place of safety, of personal growth -- and obliged to submit to murder to suit the whims of an editorial writer -- who isn't in the same room with you, getting murdered?

Shouldn't we have more options, aimed at actually saving innocent lives, than this?

[Skunks]

How often do people come to school armed, wave a gun around, and not end up shooting people?

Or: How often does someone confront unarmed innocents with a gun and it end peacefully?

How do the peaceful ends compare with the violent ones, in terms of frequency?

How many of those would still end peacefully, if it became a standoff or a hostile confrontation?

There should be options, yes; but is escalation the only one?

School shootings are predominately a phenomenon of contemporary America -- they existed previously, and they exist elsewhere, but we have more. Shouldn't we address the root causes (what makes people want to shoot up our schools), rather than the symptoms (them, armed, in a school)?

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by Skunks

Shouldn't we address the root causes (what makes people want to shoot up our schools), rather than the symptoms (them, armed, in a school)?

You must be kidding. Nothing will even be considered along those lines until somebody finally walks into CONGRESS and starts blazing away. There should be no shortage of volunteers for this honor. THEN we will see more "investigations" and legislation then we've had in the last 50 years

Originally Posted by Tonchi

You must be kidding. Nothing will even be considered along those lines until somebody finally walks into CONGRESS and starts blazing away. There should be no shortage of volunteers for this honor. THEN we will see more "investigations" and legislation then we've had in the last 50 years

Sign me up!

(That was a Joke to anyone from Homeland Security who is reading this )

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BigV
My schools are Weapons-Free Zones. It will stay that way.

You can try but that's exactly the reason these wackos are drawn to schools...... gun free, safe environment to act out their fantasies.

Arm Willie the Janitor so he doesn't have to rely on his bagpipes.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You can try but that's exactly the reason these wackos are drawn to schools...... gun free, safe environment to act out their fantasies.

Arm Willie the Janitor so he doesn't have to rely on his bagpipes.

With this logic, EVERYBODY should have a gun?

I remember Saddam gave thousands AK47's away in Iraq just before the invasion. See the carnage that's happening now.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

... Nothing will even be considered along those lines until somebody finally walks into CONGRESS and starts blazing away. ...

Russell Eugene Weston Jr tried on July 24, 1998

[Urbane Guerrilla]

When an armed crazy shows up, there is no time to consider "escalation." He's done all the escalation there can be, as it's now life and death. There is only time to consider his neutralization. He does not have to survive the neutralization process, period. Dead perp = instant deescalation. Surrendered perp, likewise. And that is what we want.

Address the root causes? There is but one: mental illness. You can't pass a law against insanity; our entire legal theory militates against that.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

When an armed crazy shows up, there is no time to consider "escalation." He's done all the escalation there can be, as it's now life and death. There is only time to consider his neutralization. He does not have to survive the neutralization process, period. Dead perp = instant deescalation. Surrendered perp, likewise. And that is what we want.

Address the root causes? There is but one: mental illness. You can't pass a law against insanity; our entire legal theory militates against that.

Hey, look at what UG's saying. When an ARMED CRAZY shows up, trouble. Fine. I buy that.

And his second point: Mental illness as the root cause. I buy that too.

Now, let's check his math. Since he's right that we can't legislatively prohibit crazyness, making a law against being crazy will not help here. I buy that too. I mean, let's face it. We're all capable of being crazy, acting crazy, driven crazy, agreed? So how can we prevent this combustible combination from endangering our children in school? We all carry within us latent crazy, but we are not all armed.

You might go crazy at any minute of the day, but you have to CHOOSE to bring a gun to school. Yes, people, the only controllable factor is the choice to arm yourself at school. You don't want trouble from armed crazies? Don't arm them. Don't do anything to diminish the distance between the arming and and the crazy. Like having many guns in the school. I bet UG really, really does believe this is a good idea. That's why I can't talk to him. There is NO middle ground. No common language. No shared understanding of how the world works to permit communication. Our universes are disjoint. They're not even parallel, since they don't point in the same direction; they're skew. He would say I'm skewed, I say he's skewed, the point is open to discussion. But by arming the teachers, it is our kids who will be skrewed.

My schools are Weapons-Free Zones. It will stay that way.

[Hippikos]

What's the solution? Arm all teachers? More guns? Only in the US and A...

Armed guards in some of the schools couldn't stop the school killers, they were first to die.

Like Skunks said; root the cause, not the symptoms. More guns will only increase the problems.

This thread title is highly suggestive, Rush Limbaugh, Micheal Moore and Al Gore could learn from UG...

[Ibby]

I highly doubt he knows me, let alone has enough against me to want me dead.

I dont buy it. He's stupid, but that doesnt mean he wants me dead. Youre stupid and you dont want me dead, right?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I highly doubt he knows me, let alone has enough against me to want me dead.

Which as you point out is pretty stupid -- he's not thinking things through.

Originally Posted by Ibram

He's stupid, but that doesnt mean he wants me dead. Youre stupid and you dont want me dead, right?

Not quite right: I'm smart and don't want you dead. For a small instance, I spell don't better than you do, consistently. My writing is thus that much clearer than yours -- you've got this little problem -- a solecism, yes -- with contractions. You ought to know better, so see to it, and no bellyachin'.

A child might think he ought to call me stupid when he can't write so hot -- but kid: I crossed puberty, mmm... 37 years ago.

[Beestie]

I'm just going down the list of my elementary school teachers imagining each of them packin' heat and bustin' a cap in some perp's ass.

[Spexxvet]

Yeah, UG, that's a bright idea. Let's trade intermittant school shootings for (IMHO) what will turn out to be much more common teachers shooting students, parents, or other teachers. Instead of "go to the office" it'll be "bang, you're dead".

[Bullitt]

I was at my field experience elementary school this morning (yes I'm going to school to be a special ed. teacher) thinking about this very issue.. I saw Frank on the news a couple weeks ago. I don't get why we don't have more passive defenses against armed in truders. Not just one entrance thats away from all the classrooms, but having reinforced doors on all the classrooms that swing out into the hall (so you can't kick them in), and replace the glass in the doors' windows with bulletproof glass. So in the event of an armed intruder, the teachers can gather as many kids as they can into their classrooms, and lock the doors creating an instant saferoom for those 30+ kids. If all the chickens are safe inside a cage, the fox can't kill any.

I know its not a solution that will solve all the possible school shooting scenarios, but I think it is a simple way to greatly protect our students against an armed intruder. Having guns in the school will only create an amatuer hour shootout with bullets flying everywhere.