Dear Mr. Obama

[Big Sarge]

Ya'll, here's a great video message to Mr Obama. It shows how a lot of us feel who have spent time in Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

[Radar]

McCain got a D rating on Veterans issues from the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America. Barack Obama got a B+. Also the 10,000 IAVA were allowed to deliver a report to Barack Obama, but McCain turned them away.

The guy in your video represents a tiny minority of veterans. Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq.

[Yznhymr]

Originally Posted by Radar

McCain got a D rating on Veterans issues from the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America. Barack Obama got a B+. Also the 10,000 IAVA were allowed to deliver a report to Barack Obama, but McCain turned them away.

The guy in your video represents a tiny minority of veterans. Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq.

I'm a Desert Storm vet. These scores are backwards. Obama would actually get an F from me. McCain is an admirable hero.

[Radar]

You are in the minority. McCain voted against increased veterans benefits every chance he got.

http://ivaw.org

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com

http://www.iava.org

http://votevets.org

[Big Sarge]

Radar,

I served 2 combat tours. I know how the soldiers I served with feel. We strongly support the war against terror in Iraq because we know we forced AQ to expend their manpower and money in their own backyard, thus keeping them from executing attacks on our homes.

Basically, my knowledge is first-hand while you are relying on anti-war group rhetoric.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sarge you served two tours, one kosovo and I guess the other in Iraq, so you know what happened there, and I believe you know how your peers feel about the war.

But when you say, "we know we forced AQ to expend their manpower and money in their own backyard, thus keeping them from executing attacks on our homes.", you're repeating pro-war rhetoric. I believe, you believe it, but that doesn't make it fact.

How in hell would you "know" what AQ would or would not do? Or even what their capability to do, is? All you "know", is what they did seven years ago, with the capabilities they had then. It appears even our Military Intel and the CIA, isn't quite sure of what AQ can do, or even who AQ consists of.

If you use the Bush/Pentagon method of labeling all the "bad guys" AQ, it ups their strength and numbers on paper, but it's a lot more complicated than that. There's a shitload of different groups that hate us(U.S.) for various reasons, and even more that want to use us as the bogey man to achieve their own ends.

Fortunately for us, and the rest of the world, these groups can't seem to work together for more than a short time... probably because they are in a constant internal power struggle, of/with people that have different objectives.

Personally, I think we should have been finishing the job in Afghanistan, instead of fucking around in Iraq, but I also realize we broke it and have a responsibility to try and fix it, as much as the people of Iraq will allow us to. But like I said, that's just my

[Big Sarge]

I don't claim to be the only OIF vet on the site. Once again my opinions are based upon my own experiences and membership in such groups as the VFW and the IWVO. Radar, it looks like we have very different opinions & neither of us will change the others mind

Bruce - I'll send you a pm

[tw]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Once again my opinions are based upon my own experiences and membership in such groups as the VFW and the IWVO.

Explain why every American general who led men in Iraq and then retired said the war was wrong; a waste of American treasure. That video could have been replayed word for word in Nam. Everything said in that video was also said in Nam. And what do we know? That was why the Pentagon Papers were so earth shattering and why government so fears their release. All that same rhetoric was used during Nam and exposed as misguided lies by the Pentagon Papers.

No matter how many die in a worthy cause, the cause is a lie when the leadership violates every basic military principle even defined 2500 years ago. It is a shame how many good people were wasted only for the greater glory of George Jr (Cheney). Then shame is compounded when those people don't learn from the mistake.

Worse - the only justified war was all but surrendered by the same president. Even more treasures must be scarified to correct a mental midget's mistake made in late 2002 and early 2003. More good Americans must be wasted only because the same leaders who invented Saddam's WMDs also surrendered Afghanistan back to the Taliban.

Shame on those who so hate America as to not see how many times George Jr (Cheney) has harmed America. You were supposed to have learned these simple lessons from Nam. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. No open criticism of the mental midget president means American is doomed to make the same mistake in another 30 years.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Then why are your post still so long?






JUST KIDDING - sorta

[Radar]

Originally Posted by tw

Explain why every American general who led men in Iraq and then retired said the war was wrong; a waste of American treasure. That video could have been replayed word for word in Nam. Everything said in that video was also said in Nam. And what do we know? That was why the Pentagon Papers were so earth shattering and why government so fears their release. All that same rhetoric was used during Nam and exposed as misguided lies by the Pentagon Papers.

No matter how many die in a worthy cause, the cause is a lie when the leadership violates every basic military principle even defined 2500 years ago. It is a shame how many good people were wasted only for the greater glory of George Jr (Cheney). Then shame is compounded when those people don't learn from the mistake.

Worse - the only justified war was all but surrendered by the same president. Even more treasures must be scarified to correct a mental midget's mistake made in late 2002 and early 2003. More good Americans must be wasted only because the same leaders who invented Saddam's WMDs also surrendered Afghanistan back to the Taliban.

Shame on those who so hate America as to not see how many times George Jr (Cheney) has harmed America. You were supposed to have learned these simple lessons from Nam. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. No open criticism of the mental midget president means American is doomed to make the same mistake in another 30 years.

Excellent post.

[deadbeater]

Originally Posted by tw

Explain why every American general who led men in Iraq and then retired said the war was wrong; a waste of American treasure. That video could have been replayed word for word in Nam. Everything said in that video was also said in Nam. And what do we know? That was why the Pentagon Papers were so earth shattering and why government so fears their release. All that same rhetoric was used during Nam and exposed as misguided lies by the Pentagon Papers.

No matter how many die in a worthy cause, the cause is a lie when the leadership violates every basic military principle even defined 2500 years ago. It is a shame how many good people were wasted only for the greater glory of George Jr (Cheney). Then shame is compounded when those people don't learn from the mistake.

Worse - the only justified war was all but surrendered by the same president. Even more treasures must be scarified to correct a mental midget's mistake made in late 2002 and early 2003. More good Americans must be wasted only because the same leaders who invented Saddam's WMDs also surrendered Afghanistan back to the Taliban.

Shame on those who so hate America as to not see how many times George Jr (Cheney) has harmed America. You were supposed to have learned these simple lessons from Nam. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. No open criticism of the mental midget president means American is doomed to make the same mistake in another 30 years.

Bush and the neo-cons did learn from Nam: they learn to ignore all naysayers, especially those natives and state officials who claim that they killed villagers; to torture torture, and torture some more, especially the innocent (worked for the Chinese), build the country until it makes a $75 billion surplus while the US is at a $500 billion deficit; stretch the National Guard and the Army Core of Engineers so far that basic things such as; oh roads and highways crumble here in the states; and if all else fails, blame the above the law mercenaries (though as I recall, al-Qaeda started as a mercenary group).

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If you use the Bush/Pentagon method of labeling all the "bad guys" AQ, it ups their strength and numbers on paper, but it's a lot more complicated than that. There's a shitload of different groups that hate us(U.S.) for various reasons, and even more that want to use us as the bogey man to achieve their own ends.

They labeled themselves AQ. bin Laden labeled them AQ in an audio tape, if you believe he's alive and made audio tapes. bin Laden said Iraq is where the battle is, if you believe he's alive and made audio tapes.

Thousands upon thousands of hardass foreign fighters entered Iraq just for the chance to blow up some infidels. Not AQ? I guess -- AQ doesn't hand out membership cards. But also, we are not at war with AQ. We're at war with radical Islamists (but we can't SAY we're at war with radical Islamists). When they design to kill us, anything that discourages them or kills them, without making more of them, is a good thing.

Fortunately for us, and the rest of the world, these groups can't seem to work together for more than a short time... probably because they are in a constant internal power struggle, of/with people that have different objectives.

And because a lot of them have been killed.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

They labeled themselves AQ. bin Laden labeled them AQ in an audio tape, if you believe he's alive and made audio tapes. bin Laden said Iraq is where the battle is, if you believe he's alive and made audio tapes.

Thousands upon thousands of hardass foreign fighters entered Iraq just for the chance to blow up some infidels. Not AQ? I guess -- AQ doesn't hand out membership cards. But also, we are not at war with AQ. We're at war with radical Islamists (but we can't SAY we're at war with radical Islamists). When they design to kill us, anything that discourages them or kills them, without making more of them, is a good thing.

A shitload of what the Pentagon were calling "AQ", battling us in Iraq, said they are not AQ, they are Iraqis. They then joined with the U.S. Coalition in defeating the other ones the Pentagon had labeled AQs.

Using "AQ" as a blanket title for Islamic radicals is OK, as long as people realize it's not a stable, cohesive, easily targeted group. In reality, the radical Islamists are dozens, maybe hundreds, of groups in constant flux. They're making and breaking alliances constantly, with each leader trying to accomplish his own agenda. The only thing they really have in common is using hate-the-Infidels as a recruiting/rallying point.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

A shitload of what the Pentagon were calling "AQ", battling us in Iraq, said they are not AQ, they are Iraqis. They then joined with the U.S. Coalition in defeating the other ones the Pentagon had labeled AQs.

Letters from Ayman al Zawahiri (AQ 2nd in cmd) to AQ in Iraq leaders:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...om_al_qaed.php

Al Qaeda's senior leadership has lost confidence in its commander in Iraq and views the situation in the country as dire, according to a series of letters intercepted by Multinational Forces Iraq earlier this year.

The letters, which have been sent exclusively to The Long War Journal by Multinational Forces Iraq, are a series of communications between Ayman al Zawahiri, al Qaeda's second in command, Abu Ayyub al Masri, al Qaeda in Iraq's leader, and Abu Omar al Baghdadi, the leader of al Qaeda's Islamic State of Iraq. These letters were intercepted by Coalition forces in Baghdad on April 24, 2008. One of the letters written by Zawahiri is dated March 6, 2008.

Coalition forces found the letters in the possession of a senior al Qaeda in Iraq leader called Abu Nizar, whose real name is Ali Hamid Ardeny al Essawi. He was killed after he stopped at a checkpoint in Baghdad and later identified by al Qaeda operatives in custody.
...
The series of letters highlights the divisions within al Qaeda in Iraq and highlights al Qaeda's senior leadership's questions about the leadership in Iraq. Al Masri is portrayed as an ineffective leader who is refusing to respond to questions by al Qaeda's senior leadership based in Pakistan. Leaders also criticize al Qaeda in Iraq's propaganda campaign, stating the group has intentionally deceived followers by releasing old footage and inflating enemy casualties.

[deadbeater]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Radar,

I served 2 combat tours. I know how the soldiers I served with feel. We strongly support the war against terror in Iraq because we know we forced AQ to expend their manpower and money in their own backyard, thus keeping them from executing attacks on our homes.

Basically, my knowledge is first-hand while you are relying on anti-war group rhetoric.

Meanwhile, the backyard in Pakistan is growing. And the Taliban is fighting back in Afghanistan, much like the way they fought USSR and USSR's puppets back in the 1980's. I wonder why Russia was not joining the coalition, even for just revenge?

Meanwhile, good job in Iraq, but it's not the point. Al Qaeda and the Taliban is working on a bigger prize: nuclear Pakistan. The Taliban already have a huge support in Pakistan, after all the Taliban originated there, with help from the army. Osama and the Taliban, I believe, still rely on contacts from the Pakistani army who is supposed to fight them. Iraq meanwhile, turned into a most successful diversion in the war on terror, even if they didn't dream of it themselves.

al-Qaeda made the mistake of treating the civilians in regions they used to control harshly. That was the real start of the Awakening.