The New "Tolerance"

PizzaMonkey · 05-15-2006, 03:02 PM

I recently read a book called The New Tolerance. I forget who the authors were. Although it is written from a Christian perspective, it really can be related to any part of society. The basic gist of the book is this - A new cultural movement is sweeping through America's schools, media, and government. Under the guise of "Tolerance", it is changing the way people think about everything. It is so prevalent, that many people don't even realize that it exists.

It is basically a changing of the definition of tolerance, in which it changes from a respecting of anothers opinions, to being forced to wholeheartedly agree with everything everyone says, or risk being labeled "intolerant" which can put one at a wide range of disadvantages, especially being considered liable in court (anyone notice a lot of people suing because they were "offended"?). As a result, any declaration of absolute moral values, absolute ANYTHING is treated surprising intolerantly. Any comments, observations etc.?

Happy Monkey · 05-15-2006, 03:45 PM

Like any philosophy, it gets silly when taken to extremes. So it even applies to itself.

Quote:

As a result, any declaration of absolute moral values, absolute ANYTHING is treated surprising intolerantly.

How are you supposed to respond to someone whose sole argument against your position is "my moral code says so, and you must live by my code"?

05-15-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Like any philosophy, it gets silly when taken to extremes. So it even applies to itself.

How are you supposed to respond to someone whose sole argument against your position is "my moral code says so, and you must live by my code"?

My general response is to end the conversation ASAP, discount their opinion, lose respect for them and avoid them in the future. You will get nowhere.

MaggieL · 05-15-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

Any comments, observations etc.?

My observation is that it's the new "intelligent design".

Christianity (and let's not kid ourselves about "applicable anywhere", that's what we're talking about here) used to enjoy a free ride as the unofficial official religion in the US through the 1950s and 1960s...and that's no longer true.

There's a big difference between "being persecuted" and losing the leverage of being the default religion in the culture.

romuh doog · 05-15-2006, 07:58 PM

...treading lightly because I'm new.....

Every day I find myself being asked to "tolerate" things that go against my upbringing and life experiences. Some I can, some I can't, some I won't.

Adversity does not build character it reveals it.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-15-2006, 08:45 PM

Corporate speak calls it "embracing cultural diversity". I'm instructed to "celebrate diversity", every day.
If they hire a cannibal, I'm not allowed to say I don't approve of cannibalism.

Of course, I don't care what Mama don't allow, so I'm in trouble anyhow.

Happy Monkey · 05-15-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romuh doog

Every day I find myself being asked to "tolerate" things that go against my upbringing and life experiences. Some I can, some I can't, some I won't.

When you put "tolerate" in quotes, what do you mean?

romuh doog · 05-17-2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

When you put "tolerate" in quotes, what do you mean?

Apologies for taking long to reply.

When I put "tolerate" as far as I tolerate things I mean that I am a woman working in construction. I take care of 2 disabled people and I am the sole support. I would prefer to work all day and not have someone hand a Playboy magazine across a backhoe to another and say something raw, I would prefer not to hear F this or F that or worse expletives (every other word as a form of communication), but I work in that environment so I tolerate it or walk away. I'm not there to judge, I just would prefer to not be around certain things each day. Also since I'm a woman I'm given a lot of jobs that the younger and newer men refuse to do. I also tolerate that. It's a paycheck, nothing more.

As far as tolerating things pertaining to my religion as I belive this post implies? I feel there is a time and place for everything. Work is for work, but that doesn't mean I have to leave my principals at the door. I can take them with me, I'm just not going to impune anyone with my beliefs. If I don't like what's going on? I can leave, tolerate it or say my peace and look for work elsewhere. For now? I'm staying put, it's not intolerable.

Does that 'splain it to you?

05-17-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romuh doog

Apologies for taking long to reply.

When I put "tolerate" as far as I tolerate things I mean that I am a woman working in construction. I take care of 2 disabled people and I am the sole support. I would prefer to work all day and not have someone hand a Playboy magazine across a backhoe to another and say something raw, I would prefer not to hear F this or F that or worse expletives (every other word as a form of communication), but I work in that environment so I tolerate it or walk away. I'm not there to judge, I just would prefer to not be around certain things each day. Also since I'm a woman I'm given a lot of jobs that the younger and newer men refuse to do. I also tolerate that. It's a paycheck, nothing more.

As far as tolerating things pertaining to my religion as I belive this post implies? I feel there is a time and place for everything. Work is for work, but that doesn't mean I have to leave my principals at the door. I can take them with me, I'm just not going to impune anyone with my beliefs. If I don't like what's going on? I can leave, tolerate it or say my peace and look for work elsewhere. For now? I'm staying put, it's not intolerable.

Does that 'splain it to you?

That is called a hostile work environment and is not EEOC compliant.
They need someone to 'splain that to them.

Ibby · 05-16-2006, 01:26 AM

Ew, I unfortunately have to agree that this is happening. I think of myself as pretty damn tolerant, but there are some things I will never, ever agree with. Does it make me 'intolerant' to not agree with white supremacists? Most people would say no. Does it make me intolerant to not agree with arch-republican grandmothers who are against just about everything I believe in? Some would say yes. Does it make me intolerant to go beat up that grandmother for her views? Absolutely. But to disagree with or be opposed to her opinions, and still not actually do anything about it, that is the essence of what tolerance is, living with what you don't agree with.

PizzaMonkey · 05-16-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

Does it make me 'intolerant' to not agree with white supremacists?

Believe it or not, there is a suprising increase in students who are actually attempting to avoid saying that the Nazis were morally wrong! Especially on the college levels, if the subject is brought up you will hear comments like "Of course I don't like what they did, but who is to say that they were morally wrong?" it's a little scary.

05-16-2006, 08:40 AM

What is funny is how it is ok to intolerant of some things. You mention white supremacists.
I am fine with them. They have a right to feel the way they do and utilize their freedom of speech.
On another board I called a young man a tyrant for wanting to enact laws against white supremacy and I spoke out against the laws in Europe that suppress certain political parties from having rallies or from white groups from having concerts. They have become Fascists to try to avoid Nazis, it is hilarious!
Half the board jumped on me. I found it funny... then quoted several Holocaust survivors from a tour I saw twice (once in Central Florida and once at FSU with different survivors)... "the first sign of this plague (Nazis/Fascism) will be the removal of freedoms... to divide us".
The new "tolerance" is selective... it is about what is cute and cuddly, what feels good.
TJ said it very clearly, freedom of speech is the freedom to hear unpleasant speech. Every time I am offended and think "OMG that is WRONG" part of me feels good, it means America is still a little healthy, still with us... for now.
What is sad is how seldom that happens.

PizzaMonkey · 05-16-2006, 09:05 AM

True all. it takes it to EXTREME EXTREMES in the book, but if you filter that out, it can still be an enlightening read. It's tone (THIS COULD BE YOU!!!) could use some work hovever.

Ibby · 05-16-2006, 09:07 AM

Which really is kind of what I said at the end there... Tolerance really is living with and accepting, however grudgingly, what you don't agree with.

On a bit of a side note: What gets me is that, even though Asia is much more conservative in general than the US, people are more tolerant, though less accepting. In the States there's very little middle-of-the-road left, most everyone is either liberal or conservative, with a lot of people polarizing to radical levels. Most issues (abortion, gay rights, intelligent design, etc) are very love-'em-or-hate-'em issues, with few people saying "Yeah, okay, there are gay people, great for them, if I'm not gay it's not really my business" or whatever. It's all very accept-lovingly-or-reject-completely. Asians, on the whole, are very good about tolerating things they disagree with.

05-16-2006, 09:13 AM

See... that is not tolerance. What are you tolerating if you don't have an opinion, a mind, at all?
Tolerance if a verb... those morons are not doing anything at all.

05-15-2006, 03:02 PM	#1
PizzaMonkey Will my Title ever stop changing? Oh, I guess it has now... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 70	The New "Tolerance" I recently read a book called The New Tolerance. I forget who the authors were. Although it is written from a Christian perspective, it really can be related to any part of society. The basic gist of the book is this - A new cultural movement is sweeping through America's schools, media, and government. Under the guise of "Tolerance", it is changing the way people think about everything. It is so prevalent, that many people don't even realize that it exists. It is basically a changing of the definition of tolerance, in which it changes from a respecting of anothers opinions, to being forced to wholeheartedly agree with everything everyone says, or risk being labeled "intolerant" which can put one at a wide range of disadvantages, especially being considered liable in court (anyone notice a lot of people suing because they were "offended"?). As a result, any declaration of absolute moral values, absolute ANYTHING is treated surprising intolerantly. Any comments, observations etc.?

05-15-2006, 07:58 PM	#5
romuh doog A person with no friends is a. lonely b. friendless c.smelly Join Date: May 2006 Location: Here for now Posts: 69	...treading lightly because I'm new..... Every day I find myself being asked to "tolerate" things that go against my upbringing and life experiences. Some I can, some I can't, some I won't. Adversity does not build character it reveals it. __________________ If Washington's teeth were wooden, did Martha have splinters in her...lips?

05-15-2006, 08:45 PM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Corporate speak calls it "embracing cultural diversity". I'm instructed to "celebrate diversity", every day. If they hire a cannibal, I'm not allowed to say I don't approve of cannibalism. Of course, I don't care what Mama don't allow, so I'm in trouble anyhow. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-16-2006, 01:26 AM	#10
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Ew, I unfortunately have to agree that this is happening. I think of myself as pretty damn tolerant, but there are some things I will never, ever agree with. Does it make me 'intolerant' to not agree with white supremacists? Most people would say no. Does it make me intolerant to not agree with arch-republican grandmothers who are against just about everything I believe in? Some would say yes. Does it make me intolerant to go beat up that grandmother for her views? Absolutely. But to disagree with or be opposed to her opinions, and still not actually do anything about it, that is the essence of what tolerance is, living with what you don't agree with. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

05-16-2006, 09:07 AM	#14
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Which really is kind of what I said at the end there... Tolerance really is living with and accepting, however grudgingly, what you don't agree with. On a bit of a side note: What gets me is that, even though Asia is much more conservative in general than the US, people are more tolerant, though less accepting. In the States there's very little middle-of-the-road left, most everyone is either liberal or conservative, with a lot of people polarizing to radical levels. Most issues (abortion, gay rights, intelligent design, etc) are very love-'em-or-hate-'em issues, with few people saying "Yeah, okay, there are gay people, great for them, if I'm not gay it's not really my business" or whatever. It's all very accept-lovingly-or-reject-completely. Asians, on the whole, are very good about tolerating things they disagree with. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

05-16-2006, 08:40 AM	#12
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	What is funny is how it is ok to intolerant of some things. You mention white supremacists. I am fine with them. They have a right to feel the way they do and utilize their freedom of speech. On another board I called a young man a tyrant for wanting to enact laws against white supremacy and I spoke out against the laws in Europe that suppress certain political parties from having rallies or from white groups from having concerts. They have become Fascists to try to avoid Nazis, it is hilarious! Half the board jumped on me. I found it funny... then quoted several Holocaust survivors from a tour I saw twice (once in Central Florida and once at FSU with different survivors)... "the first sign of this plague (Nazis/Fascism) will be the removal of freedoms... to divide us". The new "tolerance" is selective... it is about what is cute and cuddly, what feels good. TJ said it very clearly, freedom of speech is the freedom to hear unpleasant speech. Every time I am offended and think "OMG that is WRONG" part of me feels good, it means America is still a little healthy, still with us... for now. What is sad is how seldom that happens.

05-16-2006, 09:05 AM	#13
PizzaMonkey Will my Title ever stop changing? Oh, I guess it has now... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 70	True all. it takes it to EXTREME EXTREMES in the book, but if you filter that out, it can still be an enlightening read. It's tone (THIS COULD BE YOU!!!) could use some work hovever.

05-16-2006, 09:13 AM	#15
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	See... that is not tolerance. What are you tolerating if you don't have an opinion, a mind, at all? Tolerance if a verb... those morons are not doing anything at all. Last edited by rkzenrage; 05-16-2006 at 04:02 PM.

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