Recreational Drug Use Legalization - Page 8

TheMercenary · 03-10-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I didn't say it was. But that's a completely different issue from whether it would decrease the violence.

We moved from the violence issue to economics, now you want to go back and rehash the violence issue. Go ahead make your case. You think it would decrease violence. I do not. Explain to me how it would decrease violence.

Happy Monkey · 03-10-2008, 04:25 PM

Go back? You switched to economics to claim that the price of legal drugs would keep the demand-side violence up. I disagree, but even if I grant that, the supply side of the violence would be gutted.

Like I said, corporate turf wars in the US seldom devolve to gun battles. If you owe money on a legit transaction, you don't turn up dead.

And, back on the demand side, legit drugs would be known strength and purity, which would drastically reduce OD deaths and deaths due to poisoning from whatever it would have been cut with on the street. So again, even if demand-side violence stayed constant, deaths would decrease.

TheMercenary · 03-10-2008, 05:07 PM

So you think that OD deaths are due to what they cut them with? Not. Other health problems are caused that.

No, what I said is even if you legalized them violence will continue. To think that the supply side would go away, sort of like carjacking, armed robbery, stealing to support your now legal habit? none of that would go away to support a now legit habit.

Maybe you might minimize some of the supply side violence, but I doubt it. People are not going to just jump out of the business if they can still get you product. How it is done and the quality of the black market may go up in response. What I have said is that none of these problems can go away over night because of legalization, in fact I think it will just open up an new can of worms we have not seen.

Aliantha · 03-10-2008, 05:43 PM

OK Merc, look at it this way.

When alcohol was illegal, who did all the bootlegging and standovering?

The Mob. (mostly, in conjunction with the Irish)

When alcohol was legalized, what did The Mob get involved in?

Drugs.

It's a natural progression, but basically, violence over alcohol supply evaporated overnight almost.

If you legalize drugs, the same thing would happen.

Yes there'd still be people who try to undercut the drug companies or come up with some new and better drug, but mainstream users would go the legal route because it's easier, and less dangerous. Exactly the same thing that happened with alcohol.

lushchocolateswirl · 03-10-2008, 05:58 PM

Ok we legalise pot. What about skunk?

The fact is humans are inherently stupid. Melbourne laxed it's liquer laws and now we have problems in some districts of the city where people are out of control. Riots are not uncommon. Melbourne is being held up as an example of why other cities around Australia will not change their liquer lisencing laws.

On the other hand I do have a sick sister who's doctor would love to prescibe pot to help her but he can't . she relies now on others who risk jail so as to help her. So I'm all for medicinal pot.

regular.joe · 03-10-2008, 10:38 PM

I can't believe that we are going to compare viagra to pot. Viagra does not cause a state of psychosis in the person who takes the drug. A guy driving a car after taking Viagra is just uncomfortable. A guy driving a car after smoking pot, is uncomfortably dangerous. That's a good idea.

We already have a problem with drunk drivers, lets put a few more on the road only high on pot, LSD, heroin, and what ever else they want to put into their body? I don't think this is a smart thing to do.

Next thread after we legalize drugs will be how all the people put in jail for driving under the influence of LSD, and pot are victims of the system and the jails are now REALY over crowded. I can see it coming. Oh wait, then we'll just have to change the driving laws too. Only sober drivers allowed from 0900 until sundown, after that drive at your own risk...have to accommodate the drug users.

Oh, and after your sister OD's on heroin, sue the drug dealer. Already precedence set in Canada.

Aliantha · 03-10-2008, 10:47 PM

Do you have roadside drug testing like roadside alcohol testing?

Over here the same sort of penalties apply to driving while under the influence of drugs as they do for alcohol.

You raise a good point Joe, although I really don't think legalizing drugs could make the problem any worse than it is.

Happy Monkey · 03-11-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

So you think that OD deaths are due to what they cut them with? Not. Other health problems are caused that.

No, I think that poisoning deaths are due to the cutting, and OD deaths are due to ODing. Both would be reduced if the drug were of a known strength and quality.

Quote:

No, what I said is even if you legalized them violence will continue. To think that the supply side would go away, sort of like carjacking, armed robbery, stealing to support your now legal habit? none of that would go away to support a now legit habit.

Those are demand side. For the sake of argument, I granted that that could stay at the same level.

Quote:

Maybe you might minimize some of the supply side violence, but I doubt it. People are not going to just jump out of the business if they can still get you product.

They will if someone else is providing higher quality product with no fear of cops and much more conveniently and safely for customers. I doubt the junkies will be particularly loyal to their original suppliers.

Quote:

How it is done and the quality of the black market may go up in response.

If the black market becomes as cheap and safe as a supermarket, that would be a good result in itself.

Quote:

What I have said is that none of these problems can go away over night because of legalization, in fact I think it will just open up an new can of worms we have not seen.

Overnight is irrelevant.

TheMercenary · 03-18-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Overnight is irrelevant.

Actually the whole discussion is irrelevant because it is a fantasy to think it will ever happen. Drugs will never be legalized in this country the way you invision.

Happy Monkey · 03-18-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Actually the whole discussion is irrelevant

Well, thanks for starting it, I guess...

Shawnee123 · 03-19-2008, 08:15 AM

TheMercenary · 03-19-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Well, thanks for starting it, I guess...

You are welcome.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-19-2008, 10:59 AM

Hippies....

Shawnee123 · 03-19-2008, 11:12 AM

Next thing you know those koalas will be walking naked down main street. Damn long-hair pinko whippersnappers.

TheMercenary · 03-22-2008, 07:34 AM

Then we will have to start the WOK.

{war on koalas}

03-10-2008, 04:25 PM	#107
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Go back? You switched to economics to claim that the price of legal drugs would keep the demand-side violence up. I disagree, but even if I grant that, the supply side of the violence would be gutted. Like I said, corporate turf wars in the US seldom devolve to gun battles. If you owe money on a legit transaction, you don't turn up dead. And, back on the demand side, legit drugs would be known strength and purity, which would drastically reduce OD deaths and deaths due to poisoning from whatever it would have been cut with on the street. So again, even if demand-side violence stayed constant, deaths would decrease. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-10-2008, 05:07 PM	#108
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	So you think that OD deaths are due to what they cut them with? Not. Other health problems are caused that. No, what I said is even if you legalized them violence will continue. To think that the supply side would go away, sort of like carjacking, armed robbery, stealing to support your now legal habit? none of that would go away to support a now legit habit. Maybe you might minimize some of the supply side violence, but I doubt it. People are not going to just jump out of the business if they can still get you product. How it is done and the quality of the black market may go up in response. What I have said is that none of these problems can go away over night because of legalization, in fact I think it will just open up an new can of worms we have not seen. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

03-10-2008, 05:43 PM	#109
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	OK Merc, look at it this way. When alcohol was illegal, who did all the bootlegging and standovering? The Mob. (mostly, in conjunction with the Irish) When alcohol was legalized, what did The Mob get involved in? Drugs. It's a natural progression, but basically, violence over alcohol supply evaporated overnight almost. If you legalize drugs, the same thing would happen. Yes there'd still be people who try to undercut the drug companies or come up with some new and better drug, but mainstream users would go the legal route because it's easier, and less dangerous. Exactly the same thing that happened with alcohol. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-10-2008, 05:58 PM	#110
lushchocolateswirl Hi just me Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 108	Ok we legalise pot. What about skunk? The fact is humans are inherently stupid. Melbourne laxed it's liquer laws and now we have problems in some districts of the city where people are out of control. Riots are not uncommon. Melbourne is being held up as an example of why other cities around Australia will not change their liquer lisencing laws. On the other hand I do have a sick sister who's doctor would love to prescibe pot to help her but he can't . she relies now on others who risk jail so as to help her. So I'm all for medicinal pot. __________________ silence is golden , duct tape is silver

03-10-2008, 10:38 PM	#111
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	I can't believe that we are going to compare viagra to pot. Viagra does not cause a state of psychosis in the person who takes the drug. A guy driving a car after taking Viagra is just uncomfortable. A guy driving a car after smoking pot, is uncomfortably dangerous. That's a good idea. We already have a problem with drunk drivers, lets put a few more on the road only high on pot, LSD, heroin, and what ever else they want to put into their body? I don't think this is a smart thing to do. Next thread after we legalize drugs will be how all the people put in jail for driving under the influence of LSD, and pot are victims of the system and the jails are now REALY over crowded. I can see it coming. Oh wait, then we'll just have to change the driving laws too. Only sober drivers allowed from 0900 until sundown, after that drive at your own risk...have to accommodate the drug users. Oh, and after your sister OD's on heroin, sue the drug dealer. Already precedence set in Canada. __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

03-10-2008, 10:47 PM	#112
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Do you have roadside drug testing like roadside alcohol testing? Over here the same sort of penalties apply to driving while under the influence of drugs as they do for alcohol. You raise a good point Joe, although I really don't think legalizing drugs could make the problem any worse than it is. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

03-19-2008, 08:15 AM	#116
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	__________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

03-19-2008, 10:59 AM	#118
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hippies.... Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-19-2008, 11:12 AM	#119
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Next thing you know those koalas will be walking naked down main street. Damn long-hair pinko whippersnappers. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby Last edited by Shawnee123; 03-19-2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason: forgot a word

03-22-2008, 07:34 AM	#120
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Then we will have to start the WOK. {war on koalas} __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

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