8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed

[quzah]

Originally posted by sycamore
Both of them need to quit flinging shit at each other. It may be too late to save Quzah, but LUVBUGZ seems to have potential.

You all have the misgiving that I actually care what you think about me. Manners are like appareance. They're both for people who worry what others think of them. You've got me confused with someone else.

LUVBUGZ's one major failing is the inability to concede a point. That's the only problem I have with them. They're like those religious zelots who "know" there is only one "right way", and if you believe anything even the slightest bit different, you're wrong, and they cannot grasp, or will not even entertain the idea that you may have a valid point.

Case and point, they gloss over any valid point the opposition may have, and you have to ask them repetedly to acknowledge said point. If in doubt, read back a bit and you'll find that Juju also had to ask repetedly about points they had.

That is my problem with them. They cannot even entertain the notion that some one else may have a valid point. This is my one real gripe.

Since they've got their crackerjack diploma in Biology, that makes their point of view 100% valid in all understandings of Biology, so don't you dare fucking question them becaue you're wrong!

[edit]
Another case and point: Them going off on me for swearing, when they do it themselves. So it's bad if I do it, but it's ok if they do. And they tell me to look up the word hyporcite. Give me a break.

So it's fine if you shoot people once in a while, but if you shoot people all the time it's bad.

Oh, no, I shouldn't have used that. They probably don't know what an analogy is either. And I'm the one that's supposed to retake English 101.
[/edit]

Quzah.

[juju]

Originally posted by quzah

You all have the misgiving that I actually care what you think about me. Manners are like appareance. They're both for people who worry what others think of them. You've got me confused with someone else.

LUVBUGZ's one major failing is the inability to concede a point. That's the only problem I have with them. They're like those religious zelots who "know" there is only one "right way", and if you believe anything even the slightest bit different, you're wrong, and they cannot grasp, or will not even entertain the idea that you may have a valid point.

You know, you're pretty smart... and I respect you for that. But what you've described in the second paragraph is <i>your fault</i>. If you hadn't attacked her, she wouldn't wouldn't feel like you're threatening her worth as a person. She wouldn't have closed her mind to your point of view (a defense mechanism) and would then have been more receptive to what you had to say.

My argument here has nothing to do with your self-worth. I'm just assuming that you cared whether or not she at least considered your viewpoint. If you don't, why bother posting? But if you do, perhaps you could consider my point?

[quzah]

Originally posted by juju
You know, you're pretty smart... and I respect you for that. But what you've described in the second paragraph is <i>your fault</i>. If you hadn't attacked her, she wouldn't wouldn't feel like you're threatening her worth as a person. She wouldn't have closed her mind to your point of view (a defense mechanism) and would then have been more receptive to what you had to say.

Well you're close anyway. Perhaps if you read the the start of the thread, you'll notice that I did not attack her first. Here, let me quote it for you so you don't have to find it:

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
Believe it or not, my reply post was mainly for Stonan. I am a huge animal right's advocate, but I don't appreciate "wanna-be's" who randomly go around sticking their 2-cents in saying everything under the sun is animal abuse and then quietly leaving without defending their position. It makes the rest of 'us' who actually try to do something about animal abuses look like blubbering idiots and then we are left to deal w/ the Quzah's of the world. I was kinda testing Stonan to see if he/she has what it takes to come into the Cellar and make a remark like that. I was trying to find out if Stonan is someone I could make future alliances w/ regarding animal right's stuff or if he/she is just an uninformed trouble-maker. This has yet to be seen and I'm waiting to hear back from Stonan.

Enjoy the ham sammie, Quzah:p

And there you have it. I did not attack her directly. My first post in this entire thread was a general response, quoting UT. But then, it's all how you look at it I suppose. I mean, how do you take the sentence:

" It makes the rest of 'us' who actually try to do something about animal abuses look like blubbering idiots and then we are left to deal w/ the Quzah's of the world."

Attack? No? Yes? You decide. But that was the first. Tootles.

Quzah.

[juju]

That wasn't an insult. She was using you as an example of someone who doesn't care about animal rights. She misjudged you, but didn't insult you.

[juju]

Also, her misjudging you is also your fault, because your first post was all, "Who the fuck cares, blah blah blah, harshness harshness harshness". You gave no indication that you were vegan, and you made it seem like you were a harsh anti-animal rights person.

She's new, and sized you up based on your words. Then instead of just correcting her, you corrected her and were a jerk about it. Then she very nicely apologized.

Now, I don't have time for a play-by-play 'cause I have to go eat. But I think it's pretty obvious that you drove her to her current mindset.

Really, logic is important, and yours is spot-on. But you've got to use a little pschology sometimes.

[quzah]

Originally posted by juju
That wasn't an insult. She was using you as an example of someone who doesn't care about animal rights. She misjudged you, but didn't insult you.

So misjudging isn't insulting? How so?

It's all in the implication and perception there of. You took no offense, because it wasn't about you. The implication here is that I'm an asshole. Thus: "All the Quzahs of the world...". It doesn't matter if it's true or not.

It's implied. You're saying that there cannot be damages just from an implication. This is false. You can imply that a business is shady and doctors the books. People believe it, and as a result, the business suffers. They sue your ass off for the damages you've caused them.

Yes, you can insult someone by implying something. Whether or not you meant it doesn't matter. You cannot simply imply a negative connotation about some one, and expect them to not react negatively to it.

Quzah.

[quzah]

Originally posted by juju
Also, her misjudging you is also your fault, because your first post was all, "Who the fuck cares, blah blah blah, harshness harshness harshness". You gave no indication that you were vegan, and you made it seem like you were a harsh anti-animal rights person.

Then the both of you have no understanding of sarcasm either. There's nothing I can do about that. I don't give lessons, just posts.

Quzah.

[juju]

I think you're missing my point.

[quzah]

Originally posted by juju
I think you're missing my point.

Oh I know what the point is. I'm to be nice and sweet like a new born chicken. All fuzzy and cute.

I just don't have it in me.

Quzah.

[juju]

Ok, I'll give this another shot.

Speaking from your point of view as a communicator, it doesn't matter whether or not she insulted you. Your goal is to get her to understand you. What you're doing is undermining that goal. That can be evidenced by the fact that she now hates you and probably immediately rejects every point you say. Congratulations.

[juju]

Originally posted by quzah
Oh I know what the point is. I'm to be nice and sweet like a new born chicken. All fuzzy and cute.

I just don't have it in me.

It has nothing to do with morality. Being rude, even if someone else is rude to you first, is an ineffective communication technique.

[quzah]

Originally posted by juju
It has nothing to do with morality. Being rude, even if someone else is rude to you first, is an ineffective communication technique.

Morality? How'd you make the connection between fuzzy chickens and morality? Now that is an interesting thought process!

Originally posted by juju
Ok, I'll give this another shot.

Speaking from your point of view as a communicator, it doesn't matter whether or not she insulted you. Your goal is to get her to understand you. What you're doing is undermining that goal. That can be evidenced by the fact that she now hates you and probably immediately rejects every point you say. Congratulations.

Point taken.

But personally, I really don't care. It's not my goal in life to sway another's opinion. And it definatly isn't to alter their perception of me. I tell you my opinion, you tell me yours. It gives me pause for thought. Hopefully I do the same. If not, not loss.

But I have no desire to change anyone's opinion.

Like being vegan. I am. You're not. I don't care. If you are, we have one more thing in common. If you aren't. We don't. It doesn't effect me either way. It's not my goal or duity to try and convince you that you should be one.

I'm not an evangelist. I don't recruit.


Quzah.

[edit]Quote fix, added final two paragraphs.[/edit]
[edit]And now I'm going out of town for the weekend. Have fun.[/edit]

[juju]

If you didn't care, then why did you argue with her for over a week?

Hope you had fun over the weekend. :)

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by Whit
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Right Bruce, as a social thing it's not hardwired, and they are animals. There is some suggestion of pleasure, but it's clearly not the integral point. I'm just stirring the pot. Adding food for thought.

I appeciate that. That's why I went to the link and read it over a couple times, seeking answers. I'm always open to suggestion...ask any woman.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by sycamore
Both of them need to quit flinging shit at each other. It may be too late to save Quzah, but LUVBUGZ seems to have potential.

I try to make it a habit of flinging shit only after it has been flung my way