Gulf coast oil spill

[tw]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Does anyone else have any real suggestions?

Same one that applies to those other disasters. When you say you have a backup plan, have one that exists and is tested. It took then three weeks to build the cap they said existed. And then more weeks to discover and solve basic thermodynamic problems with the cap. So 1.5 month later, they still do not have the working solution they existed years ago.

When the maintenance calls for scrubbing the inside of a pipe to protect it, then do what then engineering demands.

When the only protection is a backup O'ring. And when previously flights almost failed for the same reason, then fix the problem. Don't reply on backups.

When trees are suppose to be cut tens of feet below high voltage transmission lines, then cut them. When the power lines are suppose to be loaded only to 95% capacity, do not load them routinely to 110%. When the computer system repeatedly locks out and does not report any failures, get the manufacturer's software updates from many years ago that fixes the problem. When you crash the entire NE power grid, then do not go walking about the building looking for the company president. Start the power recovery operations.

When the engineers say the leaking valve also will not report whether it is open or closed, then replace the defective valve. Do not restart the nuclear reactor to let the coolant all steam out of the plant, via a closed valve that is really open; exposing the nuclear core.

When the company has no innovations in thirty years except for those required by government regulation, then do not use money games to protect profits and further destroy the product lines.

When the NRC says the plant has a Three Mile Island problem that must be fixed NOW - then do not sponsor a Bush-Cheney campaign fund raiser to keep the plant operating.

When hundreds of engineers are desperately asking for information for more than a week to save seven Columbia astronauts, then do not quash the requests. Instead learn who want to know and why.

When a torpedo has a nasty habit of starting on its own and then exploding, fix the design of the torpedo.

When a gas tank on a school bus is outside of the frame, unprotected, and adjacent to the door, then don’t put that gas tank there.

When 500 pound bombs made before WWII and stored in a tropical environment are so old as to indiscriminately explode on their own, do not put them on an air craft carrier.

When the engineers say a new refinery process is too dangerous to start up with people still in the refinery, then do not startup that plant with people still in it.

When every light is flashing red; when security people say an attack is imminent involving planes and buildings, then don't ignore the memo on your desk that says it is coming.

When the tire is discovered defective; causing roll overs that kill people. Then do not say you will add a fifth ply to fix the defect; label the tire five ply; then never put that fifth ply into the tires. Then blame union workers for the missing ply.

When the Senior VP - the company #2 man - bluntly warns the entire company is at risk due to massive and unsustainable derivative investments, then do not fire him. Instead fix the problem 14 months before the entire economic meltdown and government intervention.

When putting Marines into a combat situation, then do not decree from the White House that those Marine guards cannot have live ammunition in their guns. After all they might shoot a Lebanese civilian.

When even the patent for the suspension says the car will roll over and kill if the stabilizer bar is not included, then include the stabilizer bar. Do not worry about the $4 additional expense.

When the car explodes on the test track before even the first one is sold, then install the $2 cap so that the gas tank will not explode. Do not deny the solution for years while people burn to death in the car. And do not keep putting gas tanks behind the rear axle where explosions are inevitable.

But these were all accidents with plenty of blame to go around. Maybe we should start at the sources of problems before they happen? Do you think?

Gulf damage is done. What has not happened in July is already a forgone conclusion. It will exist long into the fall. Begging for miracle ideas will not solve the reason for the failure or make a solution happen any faster. When the company stops drilling a second relief well because they *know* the first one will be successful, then a US president ordered them to restart drilling that second relief well. That is called a solution. Also have a backup well being drilled.

Why are they not asking for solutions so that this will not happen again. Because they who are stuck with the problem are also the only reason it (and future ones) exists.

[Shawnee123]

I do like your posts, tw.

[plthijinx]

maybe i'm just reaching but similar to what glatt mentioned. take an oversized rubber pipe with a hose clamp type device. guide it onto the riser then use a ROV to clamp it down

[tw]

Originally Posted by plthijinx

maybe i'm just reaching but similar to what glatt mentioned. take an oversized rubber pipe with a hose clamp type device. guide it onto the riser then use a ROV to clamp it down

Was already done - and failed.

Why did they not want the number of barrels per day measured? They did not want you to know why the things they were doing would be failures before they did it. They were using a four inch pipe to try to collect flow from an eight inch pipe. If the flow was only 5,000 barrels per day, then that four inch pipe might work. But the flow is more like 70,000 barrels per day - as so many third parties estimated from pictures. Pictures that BP would not release until ordered to by the White House.

Why would BP not release those pictures? Then we would learn how pathetic the pipe would be.

What happens to a nine inch rubber pipe that is one mile long? It snaps.

Well, a four inch pipe surrounded by a rubber stopper did not work. Stopper could not stop leaking. But then nothing they would try has ever been done before. Despite claims that they had backup plans, not one had been tested by anything but a pencil. That is the problem. The resulting oil all over the gulf is only secondary - is a smaller problem. Don't lose perspective. That is what BP's spin machine wants you to do. Worry about details.

What other solutions are being discussed? Who will be the new owners of BP. That is how solutions start. What is happening in the gulf is a forgone conclusion. The leak will not stop until that relief well finally locates and then drills into the original well some 16000 feet below the ocean's bottom.

[Pete Zicato]

Maybe this is some passive aggressive shit on the part of the brits. I think they're still pissed over the tea we wasted.

[lookout123]

I think Bush did it.

[Stormieweather]

No no no no no no no....you have to blame Obama. He's the guy in the White House. Nothing ever happened before his term that he isn't responsible for. Every single issue in the economy, environment, education, finance, politics, world government, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and the leaks in my roof are Obama's fault. Get it straight!

Plus it's very stylish right now to hate Obama.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

Plus it's very stylish right now to hate Obama.

True. I'm just waiting for Kanye to announce that Obama hates black people.

I'm just glad he's looking for an ass to kick. It shows he has his priorities straight.

[squirell nutkin]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

I just received an e-mail from the agency for which I work, seeking suggestions for sub-surface containment, surface containment, shoreline cleanup and remediation, safety improvements, and flow stoppage of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. These suggestions will be vetted and passed up to senior leadership for "accelerated consideration," if appropriate.

So if any one here has any real suggestions I would be glad to pass them on. Here is our chance to do more than just complain about the problem.

I actually have an idea that many people think is sound. The only problem is I don't know what the interior of the well shaft is made of and its diameter. I actually have a serious possible solution but its efficacy rests on my assumptions, which may be wrong, about the material and dimensions of an oil well. And what is the pressure of the oil coming out of the pipe?
pm me the info

[lookout123]

If your idea is to stick a banana in the end of the pipe... they already tried.

[squirell nutkin]

It worked on my neighbor's car...

[lookout123]

I know, I know. It seems like a failproof plan that's why I emailed it to them. all I got back was some bureaucratic gobbeldygook form letter with a handwritten "don't you think we already tried that, dumbass?!?" on the bottom.

There was also the voicemail from Obama wanting to schedule my asskicking, but I just deleted that.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

The leak will not stop until that relief well finally locates and then drills into the original well some 16000 feet below the ocean's bottom.

I've been hearing/reading that this is nowhere near a slam dunk solution either. You heard any more on it?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by lookout123

It seems like a failproof plan that's why I emailed it to them.

So what you are saying is that I can stop buying all the gum in Pennsylvania.

[gvidas]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

I just received an e-mail from the agency for which I work, seeking suggestions for sub-surface containment, surface containment, shoreline cleanup and remediation, safety improvements, and flow stoppage of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. These suggestions will be vetted and passed up to senior leadership for "accelerated consideration," if appropriate.

So if any one here has any real suggestions I would be glad to pass them on. Here is our chance to do more than just complain about the problem.

The current containment cap is scheduled to be removed in a week or two, right? That's why they're still looking for suggestions?

The actual rate of flow should be measured at that point. A lot of errors (both of management and design) could have been prevented if the volume and speed of oil had been known.