Pet Peeves!

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by MaggieL
In addition to being an unsupported assertion, that's simply not true. The available statistics tell an exactly opposite story.

Sure there are. I've seen them. And there are stats that would refute what you are saying. I've read some of the statistics, on both sides. It's a matter of who you choose to believe, really. I am keenly aware of how people like to take stats and shift them to fit their own viewpoint.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by russotto
A yellow light is a warning that the light is about to turn red. That's all. Nothing more. It doesn't mean slow down. Slowing down without intending to stop is one of the worst things you can do when faced with a yellow light.

The first part is not completely true.

From the Drivers Manual of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:

"A steady yellow light tells you that a red light will soon appear. If you are driving toward an intersection and a yellow light appears, slow down and prepare to stop. If you are within the intersection or cannot stop safely before entering the intersection, continue through carefully."

This also seems consistent with my recollections of drivers manuals in Missouri, Illinois, and Maryland. I understand what you are saying russotto. What I am referring to are morons who have what seems to be plenty of time to stop, yet they gun the accelerator and fly through the light.

As for cameras... well, I was hit in Philadelphia a couple of months ago. Deliberately. Twice. I ran through two red lights to get away from the nutcase (Fortunately for both of us, I was not carrying, or I would have confronted her instead) Just what I would have needed on top of a damaged car is a couple of tickets and higher insurance rates (insurance which won't pay for my damage, of course).

Realistically though, how many times has this happened to you? Did you call the police? I would wager that you if you had to plead your case in a camera situation, you'd probably win.

As a side note, the Commonwealth should seriously consider adding front license plates to cars. If you have someone causing you trouble from behind, at least you could possibly get a tag number.

I ain't dead yet... and I'd prefer not to be more valuable to a hospital dead than alive.

Unless you have a DNR order, or someone invokes power-of-attorney privileges you've given to them, the hospital is going to do whatever they can to save you before harvesting your organs.

[warch]

the hospital is going to do whatever they can to save you before harvesting your organs

Now see..., I am on the record, on my drivers license, as a donor- but I think it just may be the associations with the term harvesting that give us all a bit of pucker-butt.

Let just say that when you really can no longer have any use for this equiptment, it can miraculously be given to another so that they have a chance to stay on this earth a bit longer with their loved ones. recycling

[russotto]

Originally posted by sycamore


The first part is not completely true.

From the Drivers Manual of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:

"A steady yellow light tells you that a red light will soon appear. If you are driving toward an intersection and a yellow light appears, slow down and prepare to stop. If you are within the intersection or cannot stop safely before entering the intersection, continue through carefully."

The driver's manual, though, is not authoritative, and the law says nothing about slowing down.

Realistically though, how many times has this happened to you? Did you call the police? I would wager that you if you had to plead your case in a camera situation, you'd probably win.

I've been hit deliberately only in that one incident. I did not call the police. Deal with the police voluntarily? No, thank you. Given that I didn't call the police, I figure my story in court would be met with "I don't believe you, guilty". Or, as has been reported in Maryland, even before I tell my story -- the judge started the court session by announcing that anyone who had a red light ticket with a picture showing their car over the line was guilty.

As a side note, the Commonwealth should seriously consider adding front license plates to cars. If you have someone causing you trouble from behind, at least you could possibly get a tag number.

I wouldn't put mine on anyway, so I have to oppose that idea...

Unless you have a DNR order, or someone invokes power-of-attorney privileges you've given to them, the hospital is going to do whatever they can to save you before harvesting your organs.

You can believe that if you like, but I figure doctors are human like the rest, and if doing a little less effort to save someone they have little sympathy for in order to harvest organs can save someone they have more sympathy for, they might just do it.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by russotto
The driver's manual, though, is not authoritative, and the law says nothing about slowing down.

On the contrary, I'd say it's rather authoritative. You have to pass an exam based upon information in the drivers manual if you want a drivers license in the Commonwealth. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

I've been hit deliberately only in that one incident. I did not call the police. Deal with the police voluntarily? No, thank you. Given that I didn't call the police, I figure my story in court would be met with "I don't believe you, guilty". Or, as has been reported in Maryland, even before I tell my story -- the judge started the court session by announcing that anyone who had a red light ticket with a picture showing their car over the line was guilty...I wouldn't put mine on anyway, so I have to oppose that idea...

So, let's say the gal that hit you was from PA. And let's say she had a front plate on her car. You'd rather her get away with damaging your car, rather than report her for what she did?

Red light cameras are not foolproof, nor controversy proof. The benefits of them though would far outweigh the consequences.

You can believe that if you like, but I figure doctors are human like the rest, and if doing a little less effort to save someone they have little sympathy for in order to harvest organs can save someone they have more sympathy for, they might just do it.

Sure...it can happen. And I could be struck by lightning tomorrow, and my car could blow up too.

If we do not fight the fears and misconceptions of organ donation, innocent people are going to die. Innocent people will always die, but it's worth it to try and save as many as possible.

The Organ Donation Site, from the Dept. of Health and Human Services

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by warch
Now see..., I am on the record, on my drivers license, as a donor- but I think it just may be the associations with the term harvesting that give us all a bit of pucker-butt.

Oh sure. This was the very reason I used to be against it. In fact, I didn't sign for organ donation until I was almost 22 (over 5 years after I got my license).

But the way I figure it, I am going to die one of these days. When I die, I want to be cremated. If I can give new life to someone who needs it, and my kidney or liver or tissue can give that life, then by all means, take it.

[russotto]

Originally posted by sycamore


On the contrary, I'd say it's rather authoritative. You have to pass an exam based upon information in the drivers manual if you want a drivers license in the Commonwealth. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

I have a PA state license and I've never read the driver's manual nor taken the test. In any case, only the actual law is authoritative, not the driver's manual.

So, let's say the gal that hit you was from PA. And let's say she had a front plate on her car. You'd rather her get away with damaging your car, rather than report her for what she did?

Red light cameras are not foolproof, nor controversy proof. The benefits of them though would far outweigh the consequences.

I don't think reporting her would change anything; she'd still get away with it. All that would happen is I'd spend time talking to the police, something I'd rather not do. Maybe she would too (probably the cops wouldn't even bother) but all she'd have to do is deny it and she'd be fine. (no damage to her pickup truck, naturally)

Red light cameras not only aren't foolproof, they have high potential for and a history of abuse. And since there's no defense to a red light camera ticket, _all_ errors (honest or otherwise) are charged to the victim.

Sure...it can happen. And I could be struck by lightning tomorrow, and my car could blow up too.

If we do not fight the fears and misconceptions of organ donation, innocent people are going to die. Innocent people will always die, but it's worth it to try and save as many as possible.

Yeah, but who is the more innocent, the nice young girl with kidney disease through no fault of her own, or the degenerate (and yes, hospital personnel DO use that term to refer to patients) in the trauma ward who wrecked his car while speeding through a red light? You think no one would be tempted not to let one die to save the other?

re: doctors letting one die to save the other

doctors are strong moral characters, man. they don't just pick some homeless guy drunk crack smoker that's on the streets because they broke outta jail and got nowhere to go and say "hey, wanna be a doctor?" doctors take an oath that basically says "i will cause no harm." if it can be shown that they didn't try, with everything they had, to save a life, then they're in big shit. it's not just a job. yes, doctors are human, but they don't routinely just let people die. they try their best to save anyone that comes through the doors.

the fact of the matter is, if you don't want someone taking your organs, just say "i don't want 'em cutting up my body and taking my shit after i'm dead." it's *your* body - no one can tell you what you can and can't do with it. but an excuse of "i don't want to be more valuable dead than alive to a hospital" doesn't really fly. you're automatically more valuable alive because you're more likely to pay your bill that way! give doctors some credit.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by russotto
I have a PA state license and I've never read the driver's manual nor taken the test. In any case, only the actual law is authoritative, not the driver's manual.

Did you move here from out of state (as I did)? I didn't take any test either, which quite frankly concerns me.

Red light cameras not only aren't foolproof, they have high potential for and a history of abuse. And since there's no defense to a red light camera ticket, _all_ errors (honest or otherwise) are charged to the victim.

That's not true. Depending on the nature of the situation, red light tickets CAN be argued successfully. The Washington Post ran a story on DC's traffic cameras a little over a year ago. They noted a) the fact that DC police WERE pulling a stunt on drivers along N. Capitol St., just outside Union Station (where they had the timing on this "useless" light off, causing people to "run" the light and get a ticket), and b) that many people have successfully argued their way out of tickets, in one way or another.

Yeah, but who is the more innocent, the nice young girl with kidney disease through no fault of her own, or the degenerate (and yes, hospital personnel DO use that term to refer to patients) in the trauma ward who wrecked his car while speeding through a red light? You think no one would be tempted not to let one die to save the other?

Come on Russotto, be realistic here. The situation you bring up is RARE, certainly not the norm. Think of the Hippocratic Oath.

[russotto]

Originally posted by sycamore


Did you move here from out of state (as I did)? I didn't take any test either, which quite frankly concerns me.

Yeah, I came from Maryland. Plunked down my money and my old driver's license, took an eye test, and walked out with a PA state license.

where in maryland? i used to live there. then i got smart and moved.

[russotto]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
where in maryland? i used to live there. then i got smart and moved.

Lived in Frederick, worked in Gaithersburg (IBM Federal Systems, later Loral Federal Systems, later Lockheed Martin, probably now an extension of the Lake Forest Mall or something). Doing the 270 thing every morning.... *shudder*

ah. yes. then you would be mighty aware of what we have affectionately (not) dubbed "The Fredneck." hehe.

i lived in mount airy. more specifically, taylorsville. but yeah. my mom's in frederick, in a nursing home. the 270 thing does suck - it's only decent at 6 in the morning (and hardly then) or 9 at night. at no time in between would i want to be driving on it.

hehe. frederick. there's something about it that i just don't like. but i don't dislike it as much as i dislike cumberland. there's *really* something about cumberland that makes me want to get the fuck out of there. frederick would be okay if one had an apartment on market street or something. hehe.

ibm, as in, in the big buildings right off 270? right by NIST and stuff?

[elSicomoro]

I drove through Frederick three times...once in transit from St. Louis to Baltimore, another time for shits and grins, and once en route to my former employer's warehouse in Chambersburg, PA. That was enough. Seriously though, there is some gorgeous scenery along 270, north of Germantown.

[russotto]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
ah. yes. then you would be mighty aware of what we have affectionately (not) dubbed "The Fredneck." hehe.

I considered calling it "Fredneck", but wasn't sure if anyone would get the reference. The term probably no longer applies -- too many yuppie types from Montgomery County moving up the I-270 corridor and displacing the rednecks. (I prefer the rednecks, mostly). Though I imagine that they're still around mostly on the far side of the city.

ibm, as in, in the big buildings right off 270? right by NIST and stuff?

There's several IBM buildings which fit that description, but yes. Between 270 and 355 just north of Montgomery Village Avenue. Large but low (2 story) buildings. If the site is still operating, it's Lockheed-Martin now.