F&I

[SteveDallas]

Originally posted by lumberjim

and you only paid too much if you paid over sticker.

So how many people pay over sticker?

[lumberjim]

h'yup. i'm just sayin that msrp means manufacturer's suggested retail price. if buying a jeep at sticker is being a sucker, how is it untrue when buying a saturn?

yeah, you'd be stupid to pay sticker price......everybody knows that. i'm merely commenting on the peer pressure that exists between us and our friends when we buy a car.

" hey, nice car!" almost invariably is followed by "did you get a good deal?"

you want to be able to say yes to that, don;t you?

i expect that MY job would be a lot less fun if we didn't negotiate things.....you should try it at your work.

"yeah, boss, i know you WANT the work done by 3, but the best i can do for you is 4:15." "i do really high quality work(selling value) and you just can't rush these things(taking tone of expert). sound fair?(sullivan nod)

"ok, try to have it done by 4 though." (so he's not making the last concession)

"4 it is. you won;t be sorry, sir" ( let him win)

[russotto]

Originally posted by lumberjim
h'yup. i'm just sayin that msrp means manufacturer's suggested retail price. if buying a jeep at sticker is being a sucker, how is it untrue when buying a saturn?

Because Saturns aren't available new below sticker. So at least everyone's being equally taken.

"yeah, boss, i know you WANT the work done by 3, but the best i can do for you is 4:15." "i do really high quality work(selling value) and you just can't rush these things(taking tone of expert). sound fair?(sullivan nod)

I'm a computer programmer, so that sort of stuff happens all the time. Except that the first bid is usually at the insult level and provokes a shriek of laughter.

My boss: "Hey Matt, can you get that done by the end of the day, oh, and make sure you get it into [version] 3.5 and 3.7 too".

Me: "Ha! You're kidding, right? How about the end of the month, and the current version only?"

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Sorry you didn't get it. I'll go away.

you're right. i didn't get it. and i overreacted. MY apologies.

no need to go away. i'll toughen up

[Beestie]

So what the hell is undercoating anyway?

[Kitsune]

So what the hell is undercoating anyway?

They still do undercoating? It wasn't even an option on the handful of car purchases "I've been in on" (helped out friends) and wasn't on my own.

Or is that just a Northern thing? That's the last time I remember it being pushed on someone. It was pushed as mandatory, or else the car would fall apart at high speed due to corrosion and kill all passengers aboard.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's a sticky, tar like substance that keeps the water up against the bottom of your car so it will rust out quicker.

[lumberjim]

the best part about undercoating is that it costs us about $40 to apply it to your car, and we can usually get $199 for it. I have seriuos qualms about selling it, and typically put emphasis on teflon paint treatment and scotch guard interior protection when someone wants to "protect their investment" I think the only practical application for undercoating is for wranglers that will see beach use....and as bruce intimated, you have to be sure the undercarriage is absolutley dry and clean before you apply it. It DOES reduce road noise, but so does turning up the radio, or getting better tires.

[kerosene]

I just bought a used car last night and completely avoided all of the haggling and burial in numbers. I got my financing before stepping onto a lot and made it clear that I wasn't interested in dealer financing. I don't know if I got a good deal, but I am happy with the car and the payments.

I hear all kinds of stories about buying cars, so it struck me as frightening to go out to a lot by myself and buy a car. I did it, though, and I think everything came out okay.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by case
. I don't know if I got a good deal, but I am happy with the car and the payments.

I

if you're happy, then you got a good deal.

the fuckers that pay invoice, and still insist that you're robbing them turn my stomach....

what kind of a car did you get?

[elSicomoro]

An '87 Yugo GV

[lumberjim]

Leasing


There are several factors that go into a lease calculation. the general theory is that you offset a portion of the vehicle;s value and pay the depreciated portion over a shorter term.

the way it works technically, is this:

you take the MSRP PLUS any package discounts that exist on the window sticker, and multiply by the residual percentage that the bank sets for the term and mileage requested.

ex:

Sticker Price: 30,000
package discount: 1,000
adj, msrp 31,000
residual 50%- 36 months, 12,000 mi. per yr
residual amt: 15,500

this sets one of the 3 major factors, the residual. at $15,500

the next factor is the "cap cost"

this is the negotiable portion, and should be negotiated seperately from payments.

cap cost is a result of the sale price less rebate or trade equity, plus the aquision fee if not paid "upfront"
ex:

sale price for the above vehicle: 28,000.
rebate -3,000
trade equity -1000
aqc fee +595(varies)
cap cost 24595


the 3rd factor is the money factor. this is like an interest rate.( they can be compared loosely by multiplying the money factor by 2400 ( .00335 X2400=8.04%)

so. you take the residual from the net cap cost and you have "depriciation"

ex 24,595
less 15,500
dep: 9,095
divide by term (36) = $252.64
that's one part of your payment

the other is the "rent charge"....which you get by multiplying the money factor by the sum of the residual and the net cap

ex: 24,595 + 15,500= 40,095 X .00335 = $134.32 this represents your monthly finance or rent charge

total base payment = $386.96
in PA, we tax the payment 9% =$34.83
total payment = $421.79 per month

this only leaves tags and the first payment due at delivery from the customer, so, in total, in this deal, you'd take about $570 out of your pocket, and have a payment of 421.79 for 35 more months, as you've already paid the 1st month. if you want to buy the car at the end, it's 15,500 plus any purchase option fee ( varies from bank to bank) and sales tax. If you just give it back, you will most likely owe a "disposition fee" and any charges for excess wear and tear.



that's how the math works.

knowing this, you can keep your dealer honest.

always always always negotiate each item seperately.

more in next post.....

[lumberjim]

Begin with an analysis of your driving habits. figure out how many miles you realistically drive in a year. be honest about it. you can base it on previous driving if you can remember the details, or you can calculate work driving and (on average) multiply that by 1.5 .

Next, decide what term you'd LIKE to go. 36 months, 39 months, 48 months ( don;t do 5 years....if you can't afford the 4 year lease on a car, you can;t afford the car)

once this has been determined, ask your salesman (before you negotiate the price) what the money factor ( and SAY money factor, not interest rate) is, and what the residual is. write it down. this way they can;t hide money in there later. they may try to push that question aside because there are different factors for every bank and term, but knowing what term you want, they should know what bank is going to be the best for your car, and they will know the factor if pressed.

then negotiate your price. 1-3% is a fair profit margin for both of you. don;t be an ass and get emotional. be prepared to leave and go elsewhere, and let that be known. politely. if you have a trade, withhold the info and don't allow an appraisal before you have agreed upon a price for the new car.

the trade.
before you come out, go to kbb.com. look up your car. answer objectively, and get the value for "good" and "fair" take the average of these two numbers. this should be your "watermark" more than that is a good number, less is bad. print these pages, and bring them along in case you need to refer to them.
If possible, do not tell the salesman or salesmanager what you want for the trade before he gives you a value. if the value is low, ask him to justify it by showing you comparable cars in his auction guide or the "Galves" auction guide.

once you have agreed on these two items, THEN, discuss cash. make sure they are giving you the total amount due at signing. and that all tax is included in these quotes. find out what the bank fee (acquisition fee) is.

this way, you have all of the pieces of the puzzle.
dealers CAN mark up the money factor, and the price. the residual cannot be manipulated for profit, nor are they negotiable, fyi.

if you have the time, check their math, if not, just ask the questions, and they will assume you know what the hell you are talking about, and probably not try anything cute.

during all of this, try to maintain a pleasant demeanor, as the relationship you have with your dealer can help you when you need it.

[BrianR]

It has come to my attention that my credit union is now offering 85 and 96 month car loans.

Should I be outraged that they would do this kind of thing to their members or just shut up since I'm not buying a car right now?

Brian

[lumberjim]

would you be mad at the rope manufacturer if you witnessed a hanging?