Europe may actually ban neonicanoids

[Clodfobble]

The brainwashed believe it is safe.
The self-destructive know it is not safe.

These are opposites.

You are not grasping the reality of how normal people think (into which category you already know you do not fall.) You think they are brainwashed because you cannot conceive of someone harming themselves intentionally, because it is not logical. But many normal people do harm themselves intentionally, not because they have been convinced it is safe after all, but because they have a (sometimes subconscious, but more often conscious) urge to hurt themselves. Physical pain and suffering have been proven to draw electrical signals away from emotional pain centers in the brain. Those who suffer emotional pain (i.e. normal people, and not you) use physical pain as a substitute. Smokers are not brainwashed, they are behaving exactly the same as someone who cuts on their arms because they are depressed, just to a lesser degree.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

You are not grasping the reality of how normal people think (into which category you already know you do not fall.)

People do not make a conscious decision to be destructive. A destructive attitude occurs when higher level (cognitive) intelligence fail to control more primitive brain functions that create emotions. Primitive brain functions are less controlled in children and in lower level species. Since these do not have a fully functional pre-frontal cortex that makes possible cognitive (high level) decisions and controls emotions.

Emotional (impulse) and logical (cognitive) thoughts come from two completely different brain functions. An adult develops a pre-frontal cortex that performs higher level decisions. An adult is responsible for and required by society to control emotions using that pre-frontal cortex. An adult who lets his emotions (primitive brain functions) rule may act contrary to what he would otherwise cognitively want. Two completely different brain functions are at play.

I do not intend to kill someone. But racing down the street recklessly (for a cheap thrill or by being drunk), I kill someone. My intent, due to my actions, was to kill someone. I did not race down the street because my cognitive brain wants to kill. That need (to drive recklessly) comes from a more primitive part. I impede and do not use higher level brain functions. I am held responsible for not using the brain that adults are required to use.

Emotions is 'live for the minute'. Adults control those primitive brain functions by using the cognitive brain.

In responsible adults, a pre-frontal cortex must rule over lower level functions - emotions. The process of becoming an adult is to train and develop a pre-frontal cortex to controls emotions and desires. Otherwise that person is anti-social; entertains impulses such as fear, cheap thrills, or an emotional gratification of smoking. He does not smoke to be destructive. He smokes because the other brain wants that gratification.

Rape is another example. A rapist is not making a cognitive decision to rape and cause harm. A rapist lets his emotions rule. He stops using a part of his brain that adults are required to use. His pre-frontal cortex does not take control of primitive functions - as required by society to be an adult. You may assume he is making a cognitive decision to rape. He is not. He does not control impulses. He chooses to be lazy; not use brain functions that adults are required to use. The cognitive brain defines an adult. And separates an adult from a child.

Why is smoking so common where people drink alcohol - where higher level brain functions are impeded?

Adults must not let primitive brain functions run free. Unfortunately, some adults do that. Let lower level brain functions (emotion, impulse, desires, gratification) manipulate them. May even post a cheap shot as you have done.

Most people do not understand how or why they act. A process of becoming a more responsible adult is to learn how to better control emotions. To ignore anything that creates anger or to suppress that emotion. To not make decisions based on impulses. Destructive behavior is an adult acting like a child - letting primitive brain functions run free. If something makes you angry, then why let childish (primitive) emotions control you? Becoming more adult is to grasp realities while controlling (or even manipulating) primitive emotions.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Now do you understand how fucked up this boy is?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by tw

May even post a cheap shot as you have done.

It wasn't a cheap shot, it was a fact. My son is also not normal; that doesn't make him a bad person, it just makes him different. Have you ever browsed around the Wrong Planet forums? You might find people there who "get" you.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It wasn't a cheap shot, it was a fact.

Then define not normal.

[Clodfobble]

Outside the statistical norm.

You say "people" are a certain way, but every single person here disagrees with you. 50,000,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong. Your posts above describe how YOU think, not how the majority of people think. You can believe that the majority of people are wrong, but you can't insist they feel the same way you do when the fact is they don't.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

You say "people" are a certain way, but every single person here disagrees with you.

Mission Accomplished war was clearly a great American victory. Because the majority - told how to think - said it must be true. If a majority say it is true, then it must be true. That reasoning even justified this world's greatest massacres. After all, 5,000,000 brainwashed Nazis could not be wrong. Your reasoning.

The emotional know because others feel same? That herd mentality is bogus reasoning. Same reasoning also proved cigarettes increase health. A majority said so. It must be true. Your reasoning.

Explained was how people think. Explained was why people become destructive. For example, alcohol inhibits cognitive brain functions; enables primitive actions; permits a primitive brain to act foolishly or destructively. People, not intentionally destructive when in control, act different when a cogntive brain no longer functions. When drunk or seeking revenge, then acting foolishly or destrudtively happens.

Normal is to define underlying reasons why before making a conclusion. Abnormal is to deny logic because a majority must be always right. To know simply because a myth is popular. Denying the cognitive brain implies you knew without first learning the basics. And post denials based in myths of 'majority is always right'.

Turn on a light. A bulb burns out. That proves power cycling is destructive. Yes according to so many who are biased by speculation. The fewer who know better say power cycling does not damage light bulbs. But that means knowledge only after learning facts.

Destructive behavior occurs when a primitive (low level) brain is no longer controlled by upper level functions. Reasons why and plenty of provided examples demonstrate that. However the herd believes what others tell them; rather than learn from what is always necessary to have knowledge.

Herd mentality claimed popular contempt for 5000 American servicemen in Mission Accomplished. Because a majority believed Presidental lies rather than facts that predicted deaths. The fewer learn facts (rather than bias or hearsay) BEFORE reaching a conclusion. Destructive behavior is traceable to a failure of cognitive brain functions. Destrutive behavior is a classic example of decisions traceable to emotions. Herd mentality is people letting others tell them how to thnk.

[Clodfobble]

When the debate is over facts, you are right, the majority can be (and often are) wrong.

When the debate is over feelings, as this one is, each individual person gets to decide how they feel, and no one else can trump that. You cannot tell someone that they feel differently than they do. You cannot tell them that their reasons for self-destructive behavior are due to brainwashing, when they are telling you that they knew what they were doing and deliberately chose to hurt themselves.

Originally Posted by tw

People, not intentionally destructive when in control, act different when a cogntive brain no longer functions. When drunk or seeking revenge, then acting foolishly or destrudtively happens.

This is the key thing you are not getting. People are intentionally destructive when in control, on a regular basis. I agree with you that it is because their cognitive brain is not functioning exclusively, the way you wish it were--but operating out of the emotional brain is not a rare or dramatic thing. It does not require drunkenness, or youthfulness, or a need for revenge. It is how normal (as in, the majority) of people go through everyday life. You are welcome to believe that it is an inferior way of thinking and behaving, but it is nonetheless standard operating procedure for most people.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I agree with you that it is because their cognitive brain is not functioning exclusively, the way you wish it were--but operating out of the emotional brain is not a rare or dramatic thing. It does not require drunkenness, or youthfulness, or a need for revenge. It is how normal (as in, the majority) of people go through everyday life.

At no time does the term 'inferior' apply. Concepts were defined. Now put perspective to those concepts. In some cases, impulses from a primitive (emotional) brain are so strong as to overwhelm cognitivie thinking.

For example, why were tobacco companies marketing nicotene laced candy? Manipulate (chemically brainwash) future customers by filling 5 year old brains with nicotene. Addicting someone sooner to makes smoking more desireable. A 5 year old intentionally addicted to nicotene would need extremely strong cognititive functions to keep primitive impulses in check.

A peer would immediately (subconciously) get his gun when the house went quiet. A reaction from the 'fear' center because silent crickets meant Charlie was about to attack. His cognitive response was to leave a radio on all night.

Sometimes the cognitive brain cannot control impulses without a crutch. The radio, for him, was that crutch. We know increasing cigarettes prices has been quite successful helping cigarette addicts to quit. Another crutch.

A man suddenly became a pedophile. He kept insisting something internally had gone wrong. Eventually doctors took him seriously. Scans discovered a massive brain tumor. When that tumor was removed, pedophile desires disappeared. Some years later, those impuluses returned. He dealt with it cognitively rather than let them control him. Scans discovered the tumor had regrown. A second brain surgery removed that tumor; no more pedophile desires.

Examples of how a cognitive brain might deal with impulses. Sometimes crutches are needed. But we don't always have those tools. Since psychology was (until recently) one step above blood letting. Tools to actually understand how brains work (ie PET scan) have only recently been developed.

Perspective. Understanding why one reacts emotionally does not necessarily result in a solution. Sometimes a primitive brain requires cognitive actions that are beyond that person's ability. We really have only started to understand this organ.

Cigarette smokers may know cigarettes kill. But impulses from the primitive brain can be too powerful (imagine how much stronger had the Attorney Generals not discovered tobacco industry candies). So powerful that destructive behavior is actually desired. A cognitive brain just cannot control those impulses. Perspective.

Appreciate how powerful one must be, cognitively, to stay off heroine. Cognitive tools (crutches) include moving far from venues where heroine was once consumed.

The most adult among us are so much in control as to not use profanity. Profanity is often an indication of one who let's lower level functions rule his actions. Not to be confused with how Craig Furgeson and Lenny Bruce use it for comical effect.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by tw

Cigarette smokers may know cigarettes kill. But impulses from the primitive brain can be too powerful... So powerful that destructive behavior is actually desired.

Correct. They weren't brainwashed by advertisements into believing it was healthy to smoke. They knew that was a lie. They chose, due to what you are calling their "primitive" brain, to smoke even though it hurt them.

[sexobon]

Isn't that just about what xoB said? Gee, it's so nice to see tw and xoB in agreement on something.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

They chose, due to what you are calling their "primitive" brain, to smoke even though it hurt them.

Those were people chemically addicted. Let us not forget non-addicts.

Pre and early 1950 research soundly demonstrated cigarettes kill. But 1950 non-addicts (and in mass numbers) started smoking because advertising said it was good. Because sexy movie stars smoked. Because advertising showed people doing healthy activities with a butt hanging from their mouth. Because doctors on television (the internet of its time) said smoking makes one healthier. Jack Benny, George Burns, and Humphrey Bogart did it. Many examples of manipulation posted previously.

Early and pre 1950 science simply got ignored. Smoking was cool. Whereas smoking twenty somethings in decades before WWII were about 20%, that number increased to well over 40%. With more than 50% of males smoking in the early 1950s. And increasing to 60% in 1960.

Why would so many start smoking when it smells so bad, when every smoker can (supposidely) feel it is harmful, and research said it was unhealthy? Because a majority are that easily manipulated - brainwashed by advertising. To ignore all else.

If smoking smelled so bad and if everyone could feel harm, then why did smoking numbers increase sharply from 22% to as much as 61%? Advertising preached it as good for health. Why did so many believe advertising and ignore research from JAMA and equivalent UK publications? Because most who are so easily manipulated have no idea how easily they can be manipulated.

Why is it illegal for the Federal government to do research into gun violence? Otherwise people might actually think cognitively. Better is to know only what they feel.

Were people manipulated by advertising? Professionals had numbers that prove they could manpulate many to do what was otherwise harmful. Zimbardo's famous experiment demonstrates same. Because about half the population can be manipulated to acts contrary to what they would do if thinking cognitively.

Hilter had similar tricks. They would output a high frequency sound in the PA system during party rallies. Most were unaware of that sound. When Hitler stepped up, that sound was turned off. The crowd felt better; become robust. A herd mentality would take over. They believed Hitler was a great man because they could feel it. Few had any idea how easily they had been manipulated. Most knew Hitler was good because they felt so.

Large numbers are easily manipulated to ignore facts. Rush Limbaugh, et al got rich because of it. Facts said no reasons exist to believe Saddam had WMDs. Why did so many believe myths and lies? Because so many forget lessons even taught in junior high science. Because many (if not most) 'know' mostly from primitive feelings. So many are that easily manipulated to stop thinking cognitively; especially ignore numbers. The herd mentality.

Only a minority usually learn from and act cognitively. Many only learn to wait and be told. Most don't demand underlying reasons and numbers. By disparaging the bourgeois and intelligencia, Hilter succesfully kept the majority brainwashed, uniformed, devoid of facts, and inspired by primitive feelings.

How many now believe in torture only because they feel it works? Brainwashing works.

[sexobon]

Did your father smoke?

[tw]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Did your father smoke?

Yes.

[sexobon]

Did you ever smoke?